Modes [Suggestion] How to incentivise open play and make it relevant

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

lol. This is glorious.

They add punishments for peoples actions. They add the building blocks for "meaningful pvp".

I tried to tell you dudes. I just didnt know it was happening this fast. Which means, its been a topic on their table and was decided for quite sometime. They are really headed in the right direction. Its not going to come out perfect at first.

And ya'll still have solo. And even the NPC's react to the same crime. Again, first the foundation and rules set for crime. Then the rewards for the crime. Works for PVE and PVP. However it makes the open world a lot more interesting.

This whole game is based off PVE and PVP. Even the BGS. Just like other games, Guild wars, WoW, League of legends. They all have PVE content that is in direct line with PVP content.

Im going to buy a T-shirt that says. I survived Hotel California.

This is the first step to a greater tomorrow! Im excited! Whos with me?

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

lol. This is glorious.

They add punishments for peoples actions. They add the building blocks for "meaningful pvp".

I tried to tell you dudes. I just didnt know it was happening this fast. Which means, its been a topic on their table and was decided for quite sometime. They are really headed in the right direction. Its not going to come out perfect at first.

And ya'll still have solo. And even the NPC's react to the same crime. Again, first the foundation and rules set for crime. Then the rewards for the crime. Works for PVE and PVP. However it makes the open world a lot more interesting.

This whole game is based off PVE and PVP. Even the BGS. Just like other games, Guild wars, WoW, League of legends. They all have PVE content that is in direct line with PVP content.

Im going to buy a T-shirt that says. I survived Hotel California.

This is the first step to a greater tomorrow! Im excited! Whos with me?

I too am looking forward to these changes.

I'm presuming that the proposed karma system Sandro was talking about weeks/months ago would work in tandem with this new crime system. No mention has been made yet from Sandro of Karma in tandem with this.

But yeah - I am actually pleased Crime will make system security levels and Anarchy systems finally mean something. No doubt there will be loopholes and unintended consequences, and hopefully Frontier have learned enough by now to thoroughly test all this new stuff in a Beta program and implement fixes before unleashing it all to the live game

I am also pleased this crime system will also count for NPC's - basically, commit the crime, be prepared to pay the time/dime, no matter if it's a crime committed in PvE or PvP

I'm with you!

 

[Tiwaz]

lol. This is glorious.

They add punishments for peoples actions. They add the building blocks for "meaningful pvp".

I tried to tell you dudes. I just didnt know it was happening this fast. Which means, its been a topic on their table and was decided for quite sometime. They are really headed in the right direction. Its not going to come out perfect at first.

And ya'll still have solo. And even the NPC's react to the same crime. Again, first the foundation and rules set for crime. Then the rewards for the crime. Works for PVE and PVP. However it makes the open world a lot more interesting.

This whole game is based off PVE and PVP. Even the BGS. Just like other games, Guild wars, WoW, League of legends. They all have PVE content that is in direct line with PVP content.

Im going to buy a T-shirt that says. I survived Hotel California.

This is the first step to a greater tomorrow! Im excited! Whos with me?

You remind me of the early days of ED. "It's gonna be great! They are going to do XXX and it just MAKES ALL GRIEF GO AWAY!" Yeah, slight exaggeration but you present the exact same attitude. Except during the early days it was "Hey, we have David Braben doing this, he knows how it works so it will work just fine."

That was... Dunno, several years ago.

They add "punishments". Yeah, guess what. In Eve online there is "punishment" of death (and loss of everything you have in your ship at that moment) if you start shooting up people in High Security.

Despite this there are events like "Burn Jita" (Jita being one very busy location in the game for those who do now know) arranged by large player groups. Why? Because they can.
Because any ingame punishment system is not going to be enough to deter the ganksquads and griefing.

They get their punishment, have friend with clean account take care of the bounty and then doing fast bucks using whatever is the current golden hen of credits to bulk up their account if they feel need.
And then it is back to the "fun".
And they will figure out their way out of karma, if it ever gets anywhere decent, the same way. Quite possibly even working to "game" the system for their benefit. Quite possibly coming up with ways to turn it against the target itself.

So yeah, I really have zero confidence in anything Frontier can set up, short of game mechanics making damaging another player impossible, having any impact on griefing and ganksquads.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

You remind me of the early days of ED. "It's gonna be great! They are going to do XXX and it just MAKES ALL GRIEF GO AWAY!" Yeah, slight exaggeration but you present the exact same attitude. Except during the early days it was "Hey, we have David Braben doing this, he knows how it works so it will work just fine."

That was... Dunno, several years ago.

They add "punishments". Yeah, guess what. In Eve online there is "punishment" of death (and loss of everything you have in your ship at that moment) if you start shooting up people in High Security.

Despite this there are events like "Burn Jita" (Jita being one very busy location in the game for those who do now know) arranged by large player groups. Why? Because they can.
Because any ingame punishment system is not going to be enough to deter the ganksquads and griefing.

They get their punishment, have friend with clean account take care of the bounty and then doing fast bucks using whatever is the current golden hen of credits to bulk up their account if they feel need.
And then it is back to the "fun".
And they will figure out their way out of karma, if it ever gets anywhere decent, the same way. Quite possibly even working to "game" the system for their benefit. Quite possibly coming up with ways to turn it against the target itself.

So yeah, I really have zero confidence in anything Frontier can set up, short of game mechanics making damaging another player impossible, having any impact on griefing and ganksquads.

Thats because you see all PVP as griefing. We're supposed to be attacking traders and stuff. Not consensual PVP. If anything these updates prove this.

"griefing" as you put it. Is now called "Gameplay". They are encouraging it. Yes they are adding punishments. But they are also adding Risk and Reward to these activities. Something thats been needed desperately. Everything EVERYONE has been asking for on both sides of the fence. And there are people still upset, because pvpers are getting a nudge so we play in the right direction. Instead of aimless pointless shootouts. Which is fun, and you can meet a lot of friends. Learn your ships and builds.

But what are we fighting over. The guilds and stuff will complement this. After this is established. Powerplay can be kicked in the face.

However, some points of your argument. You are right. We really need some follow through to make all of our features work.

Which is apparent, They have laid the foundation with multicrew, the BGS and so on. Now they are going to take the time and fine tune all this stuff. I have faith they will do it. Im getting a bunch of negativity from both sides of the fence. But one thing is for sure. Were all on the same side.

Some people are upset just because most of these changes effect open play. Well it has to my dudes. There are other players out there. And you simply dont and cant get fed bounties in SOLO, and you're not supposed to in Mobius. SO YES, OPEN PLAY IS RECEIVING SOME LOVE. It needs it.

Solo play, you still get to do anything thats not related to multiplayer. I dont see the problem here. You have aliens, the BGS everything solo players will continue to get as we have before. Its juts the dynamics of Open play are now being touched on. Because, like I said, the modes are different when it comes to risk vs reward.

 

[Tiwaz]

Thats because you see all PVP as griefing. We're supposed to be attacking traders and stuff. Not consensual PVP. If anything these updates prove this.

"griefing" as you put it. Is now called "Gameplay". They are encouraging it. Yes they are adding punishments. But they are also adding Risk and Reward to these activities. Something thats been needed desperately. Everything EVERYONE has been asking for on both sides of the fence. And there are people still upset, because pvpers are getting a nudge so we play in the right direction. Instead of aimless pointless shootouts. Which is fun, and you can meet a lot of friends. Learn your ships and builds.

But what are we fighting over. The guilds and stuff will complement this. After this is established. Powerplay can be kicked in the face.

However, some points of your argument. You are right. We really need some follow through to make all of our features work.

Which is apparent, They have laid the foundation with multicrew, the BGS and so on. Now they are going to take the time and fine tune all this stuff. I have faith they will do it. Im getting a bunch of negativity from both sides of the fence. But one thing is for sure. Were all on the same side.

Some people are upset just because most of these changes effect open play. Well it has to my dudes. There are other players out there. And you simply dont and cant get fed bounties in SOLO, and you're not supposed to in Mobius. SO YES, OPEN PLAY IS RECEIVING SOME LOVE. It needs it.

Solo play, you still get to do anything thats not related to multiplayer. I dont see the problem here. You have aliens, the BGS everything solo players will continue to get as we have before. Its juts the dynamics of Open play are now being touched on. Because, like I said, the modes are different when it comes to risk vs reward.

It is griefing when there is nothing to be gained. There was lots of talk of "piracy", but instead of that what you find is sociopathic murderhoboism. People are killed for absolutely no reason.
Trader is empty? Who cares, kill him.
That Sidewinder has absolute no cargo capacity even. Kill it.
Whatever it is, if you can kill it kill it.

That was never the purpose presented by Frontier, just the opposite. But that is what we have.
And all these proposed "improvements" are not going to fix it either. And neither are they stating that PvP is what they want, rather this is quite poor attempt to try to get the problem under control. And likely it will fail. Would be fun if it worked, but it has failed in the past and nothing suggests that it would fix the PvP issue in ED either.

Though, when you say "we are supposed to be shooting traders". Have YOU ever thought to become trader to give your fellow PvPers something to blow up?
It is something I have not yet seen many PvP-enthusiasts do. They are VERY eager to be on the pewpew side, coming always up with arguments on why others should be pushed into open for them to shoot. But very, very few PvP-people are willing to take the job of target. Despite commonly telling how thrilling, fun and incredibly entertaining it is.

Do you fly T-6/9/whatever in open for PvP-folk to hunt? If not, why? And why you think someone else should?

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Yeah, I do. I stream it. And I encourage people to stream snipe me.

Anything else?

Also, they have to lay a foundation of rules first. Then rewards.

Its building backwards. Think of it this way. You already have rewards for logging in and doing your thing by missions alone.

But now we are dealing with Criminal Gameplay. Which means you have set some ground rules before the reward process. Pretty straight forward foundation stuff.

Cause and effects all that good jazz.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Thats because you see all PVP as griefing. We're supposed to be attacking traders and stuff. Not consensual PVP. If anything these updates prove this.

"griefing" as you put it. Is now called "Gameplay". They are encouraging it. Yes they are adding punishments. But they are also adding Risk and Reward to these activities. Something thats been needed desperately. Everything EVERYONE has been asking for on both sides of the fence. And there are people still upset, because pvpers are getting a nudge so we play in the right direction. Instead of aimless pointless shootouts. Which is fun, and you can meet a lot of friends. Learn your ships and builds.

A lot of the views expressed here and in a lot of other threads are coloured by more than 3 years of the game being nothing more than a free-for-all gank frag-fest, in Open, due to there being basically no consequences for just being a murderhobo, so this should be considered when you read opinions on griefing

But what are we fighting over. The guilds and stuff will complement this. After this is established. Powerplay can be kicked in the face.

I still suspect that those who are expecting Squadrons to be some kind of implementation of full-on Guilds, are going to be disappointed. From what I've gathered, Squadrons will amount to in-game functionality for better communication with group members, plus a large ship with which your group can dock with, which can also make the odd jump to another system every now and then.

I don't get the impression that Squadrons are going to turn E: D into an executive control game like EVE, for example. Now, time will tell if that's the correct impression or not, so I'm not getting too bothered about that. [disclaimer: I'm against turning ED into an executive control game akin to EVE].

However, some points of your argument. You are right. We really need some follow through to make all of our features work.

Which is apparent, They have laid the foundation with multicrew, the BGS and so on. Now they are going to take the time and fine tune all this stuff. I have faith they will do it. Im getting a bunch of negativity from both sides of the fence. But one thing is for sure. Were all on the same side.

Some people are upset just because most of these changes effect open play. Well it has to my dudes. There are other players out there. And you simply dont and cant get fed bounties in SOLO, and you're not supposed to in Mobius. SO YES, OPEN PLAY IS RECEIVING SOME LOVE. It needs it.

Solo play, you still get to do anything thats not related to multiplayer. I dont see the problem here. You have aliens, the BGS everything solo players will continue to get as we have before. Its juts the dynamics of Open play are now being touched on. Because, like I said, the modes are different when it comes to risk vs reward.

Also, it looks like the very same new Crime mechanics will work in exactly the same manner, with NPC's, so, this affects all players regardless of which client connectivity mode they choose to play in. i.e. You'll become the pilot of a Hot Ship if you commit a crime in the Solo connectivity mode. I for one welcome this change.

Also, I suspect the Crime change, working in tandem with a new Karma system, will have an effect of reducing murderhobo behaviour, in favour of making PvP more rare and more meaningful.

Anarchy systems should be made much more dangerous by the new Crime system, as players wanting to roleplay as criminals and Reavers will be 'nudged' into those Anarchy systems. Systems with security levels above Anarchy will have more effective system authority.

Players wanting to be criminals/Reavers would venture out of their Anarchy systems into systems with security in order to perform their vicarious deeds, but would have to be wary of system authorities, AND their karma status - especially if they're still wanting to go on ganking sprees.

Traders would have to be wary of their trade routes, especially if traversing the bubble through Anarchy systems, as pirate players could be lurking there to loot them.

In short, the new crime changes actually place some real meaning into the security levels of bubble systems.

Yes, this is going to be an interesting change.

 

[Nyra Amarin]

It is in the history of games. Let the PvP run wild and in vast majority of cases it turns into gankfest which in turn starts to alienate majority of players away from game.

Like... Eve Online? Oh, wait...

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

A lot of the views expressed here and in a lot of other threads are coloured by more than 3 years of the game being nothing more than a free-for-all gank frag-fest, in Open, due to there being basically no consequences for just being a murderhobo, so this should be considered when you read opinions on griefing



I still suspect that those who are expecting Squadrons to be some kind of implementation of full-on Guilds, are going to be disappointed. From what I've gathered, Squadrons will amount to in-game functionality for better communication with group members, plus a large ship with which your group can dock with, which can also make the odd jump to another system every now and then.

I don't get the impression that Squadrons are going to turn E: D into an executive control game like EVE, for example. Now, time will tell if that's the correct impression or not, so I'm not getting too bothered about that. [disclaimer: I'm against turning ED into an executive control game akin to EVE].




Also, it looks like the very same new Crime mechanics will work in exactly the same manner, with NPC's, so, this affects all players regardless of which client connectivity mode they choose to play in. i.e. You'll become the pilot of a Hot Ship if you commit a crime in the Solo connectivity mode. I for one welcome this change.

Also, I suspect the Crime change, working in tandem with a new Karma system, will have an effect of reducing murderhobo behaviour, in favour of making PvP more rare and more meaningful.

Anarchy systems should be made much more dangerous by the new Crime system, as players wanting to roleplay as criminals and Reavers will be 'nudged' into those Anarchy systems. Systems with security levels above Anarchy will have more effective system authority.

Players wanting to be criminals/Reavers would venture out of their Anarchy systems into systems with security in order to perform their vicarious deeds, but would have to be wary of system authorities, AND their karma status - especially if they're still wanting to go on ganking sprees.

Traders would have to be wary of their trade routes, especially if traversing the bubble through Anarchy systems, as pirate players could be lurking there to loot them.

In short, the new crime changes actually place some real meaning into the security levels of bubble systems.

Yes, this is going to be an interesting change.

Right, however. Ive spoke with multiple player groups. And this is how they plan on using their fleet ship. Set it up for position for attack. Then attack, or defend.

Its going to get really interesting. All the BGS work, is going to be half the PVP play. Its going to be important, what materials and missions are done. Its also going to be important as to what why types of ships are used and why.

The only problem is, we see all the changes to open specifically right? The punishments for invading another groups territory. Because this is indeed going to happen.

So, whats the first thing people are going to do? As the game stands now? Remove any chance of another player intercepting them. Now all they have to deal with are NPC's.

So when this comes to player group vs player group activities. This kind of gives a moment. So it will be interesting to see how they handle it. Dont think they wont, cause players and groups arent NPC's lol.

So yeah, this is all going to have to unfold over time. We cant get ahead of ourselves and jump the gun. But they already had the changes in the works for what was announced yesterday.

They have already came up with the solutions to the PVP player group stuff. Remember its about balancing players. Not NPC's.

And also, Solo and Private groups can still be criminals and take advantage of all the changes. EXCEPT THE CHANGES MADE TO OPEN. It is multiplayer, and if people opt out of it. Then thats on them and there is no room for complaints here. Even though they have already started. Although I do understand why. This is a big change. But a welcomed one.

The Karma stuff is just the same as the development of these new features.

Think of the game like a sandwich. You gotta add all the pieces, Bread, mayo, mustard, MEAT(core changes here), lettuce, SALT(haha). You get the idea. But its really neat to see the potential thats coming. Elites about to Git Gud. And now im really excited just talking about it.

Especially because no one is left out here. Everyone still gets their Solo/Private stuff. And they make changes to open too. Everyone wins. No one loses. Problems will be ironed out. People in solo and private modes can still play for themselves AS INTENDED. While player vs player activity is expanded upon.

Great times for everyone ahead.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Like... Eve Online? Oh, wait...

Changing text colour to light grey is not conducive to reading your replies when using a forum theme with a light/white background. Just a PSA

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Right, however. Ive spoke with multiple player groups. And this is how they plan on using their fleet ship. Set it up for position for attack. Then attack, or defend.

Its going to get really interesting. All the BGS work, is going to be half the PVP play. Its going to be important, what materials and missions are done. Its also going to be important as to what why types of ships are used and why.

The only problem is, we see all the changes to open specifically right? The punishments for invading another groups territory. Because this is indeed going to happen.

So, whats the first thing people are going to do? As the game stands now? Remove any chance of another player intercepting them. Now all they have to deal with are NPC's.

So when this comes to player group vs player group activities. This kind of gives a moment. So it will be interesting to see how they handle it. Dont think they wont, cause players and groups arent NPC's lol.

So yeah, this is all going to have to unfold over time. We cant get ahead of ourselves and jump the gun. But they already had the changes in the works for what was announced yesterday.

They have already came up with the solutions to the PVP player group stuff. Remember its about balancing players. Not NPC's.

And also, Solo and Private groups can still be criminals and take advantage of all the changes. EXCEPT THE CHANGES MADE TO OPEN. It is multiplayer, and if people opt out of it. Then thats on them and there is no room for complaints here. Even though they have already started. Although I do understand why. This is a big change. But a welcomed one.

The Karma stuff is just the same as the development of these new features.

Think of the game like a sandwich. You gotta add all the pieces, Bread, mayo, mustard, MEAT(core changes here), lettuce, SALT(haha). You get the idea. But its really neat to see the potential thats coming. Elites about to Git Gud. And now im really excited just talking about it.

Especially because no one is left out here. Everyone still gets their Solo/Private stuff. And they make changes to open too. Everyone wins. No one loses. Problems will be ironed out. People in solo and private modes can still play for themselves AS INTENDED. While player vs player activity is expanded upon.

Great times for everyone ahead.

Haha! I think we're both looking forward to the changes for different reasons

Time will tell indeed.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Haha! I think we're both looking forward to the changes for different reasons

Time will tell indeed.

Yep! But its the same changes that fits everyones needs. Frontier is giving the community the best possible outcome when this is all said and done.

 

[Han Zulu]

lol. This is glorious.

They add punishments for peoples actions. They add the building blocks for "meaningful pvp".

I tried to tell you dudes. I just didnt know it was happening this fast. Which means, its been a topic on their table and was decided for quite sometime. They are really headed in the right direction. Its not going to come out perfect at first.

And ya'll still have solo. And even the NPC's react to the same crime. Again, first the foundation and rules set for crime. Then the rewards for the crime. Works for PVE and PVP. However it makes the open world a lot more interesting.

This whole game is based off PVE and PVP. Even the BGS. Just like other games, Guild wars, WoW, League of legends. They all have PVE content that is in direct line with PVP content.

Im going to buy a T-shirt that says. I survived Hotel California.

This is the first step to a greater tomorrow! Im excited! Whos with me?

I can't believe I'm saying this... but I'm with you.

I wish FDev also could add a little warning text or something to the Open, Solo texts in the menu. It should have a little thing like "Open - High Risk, Pirating and Random PvP Allowed" Or something. Because, when I started playing ED, I didn't understand the risks and the differences between the modes. Now I do.

And I think Open should allow for risky PvP. And hopefully, the changes FDev is doing to C&P will make pirating more interesting and challenging. Players should still be able to do it, but to do it in a way that makes sense and feels balanced.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

I can't believe I'm saying this... but I'm with you.

I wish FDev also could add a little warning text or something to the Open, Solo texts in the menu. It should have a little thing like "Open - High Risk, Pirating and Random PvP Allowed" Or something. Because, when I started playing ED, I didn't understand the risks and the differences between the modes. Now I do.

And I think Open should allow for risky PvP. And hopefully, the changes FDev is doing to C&P will make pirating more interesting and challenging. Players should still be able to do it, but to do it in a way that makes sense and feels balanced.

Welcome to the dark side. Kappa.

Tool tips would be important. As well as talking to their community about open solo and private modes. They shouldnt have to. But people are going to be people. Open is Dynamic because of it. Solo and private modes are governed in such a way where the risks are different.

This is what ive been trying to explain to some of the nay sayers this whole time. Now we have some awesome punishments to start with. This is going to be great! The game is going to grow because of it. Which means even MOAR STUFF LATER! FOR EVERYONE!

Its celebration time boys!

 

[NeilF]

A lot of the views expressed here and in a lot of other threads are coloured by more than 3 years of the game being nothing more than a free-for-all gank frag-fest, in Open, due to there being basically no consequences for just being a murderhobo, so this should be considered when you read opinions on griefing



I still suspect that those who are expecting Squadrons to be some kind of implementation of full-on Guilds, are going to be disappointed. From what I've gathered, Squadrons will amount to in-game functionality for better communication with group members, plus a large ship with which your group can dock with, which can also make the odd jump to another system every now and then.

I don't get the impression that Squadrons are going to turn E: D into an executive control game like EVE, for example. Now, time will tell if that's the correct impression or not, so I'm not getting too bothered about that. [disclaimer: I'm against turning ED into an executive control game akin to EVE].




Also, it looks like the very same new Crime mechanics will work in exactly the same manner, with NPC's, so, this affects all players regardless of which client connectivity mode they choose to play in. i.e. You'll become the pilot of a Hot Ship if you commit a crime in the Solo connectivity mode. I for one welcome this change.

Also, I suspect the Crime change, working in tandem with a new Karma system, will have an effect of reducing murderhobo behaviour, in favour of making PvP more rare and more meaningful.

Anarchy systems should be made much more dangerous by the new Crime system, as players wanting to roleplay as criminals and Reavers will be 'nudged' into those Anarchy systems. Systems with security levels above Anarchy will have more effective system authority.

Players wanting to be criminals/Reavers would venture out of their Anarchy systems into systems with security in order to perform their vicarious deeds, but would have to be wary of system authorities, AND their karma status - especially if they're still wanting to go on ganking sprees.

Traders would have to be wary of their trade routes, especially if traversing the bubble through Anarchy systems, as pirate players could be lurking there to loot them.

In short, the new crime changes actually place some real meaning into the security levels of bubble systems.

Yes, this is going to be an interesting change.

As regards PvP, anarchy systems should be more dangerous as regards having your cargo stolen. It should not mean more dangerous as regards being destroyed. So yes, if you're interdicted, help from security forces may not come, but should the pirate destroy you, that will not go unnoticed. Hence the pirate has a choice to consider. They can certainly destroy another CMDR from time to time. But if they do it too often then there will be penalties!

I come back to my suggestion that illegal destruction, no matter where it takes place, should result in penalties. eg: If you destroy more than X CMDRs in period Y, you start getting hit with more and more penality such as losing docking rights at more and more station.

As much as people quote Elite lore, it makes no sense from a gameplay point of view, or game universe point of view that the Pilots Federation and insurance companies would ignore a member of The Pilots Federation repeatedly (illegally) destroying other members (even in anarchy systems).


Apply the C&P (karma) mechanics everywhere and it results in a better outcome for all.... as long as the game then also actually offers/orchestrates "legal" PvP - Which clearly its not really tried doing other that Powerplay allowing you to raise a flag with "shoot me" written on it, while undertaking rather dull gameplay. We should have OPEN only CGs and the BGS promoting hot spots in OPEN with rewards/outcomes and missions meaning there's always a few obvious legal PvP activities on the go, with more interesting PvP gameplay than interdicting random square dots and pressing fire for no real reason.

 

[sovapid]

But yeah - I am actually pleased Crime will make system security levels and Anarchy systems finally mean something.

Except there are no changes in game play to get 'clean' pilots go to anarchy systems.

For example, lets say pirates get somewhat relegated to anarchy. In that case there needs to be some incentive to get traders to go to anarchy systems. Higher payouts or something. Otherwise piracy is even more dead than it already is.

And a bunch of issues I have with murderhoboing, this doesnt fix them.

I'm pretty sure I saw you post about massacres taking place when new "science" sites were discovered. Like barnacles or something. Since those are almost always anarchy, they will still be killing fields.

And that stuff is normally in Anarchy systems, right? Barancles, INRA, Generation Ships?

 

[NeilF]

Except there are no changes in game play to get 'clean' pilots go to anarchy systems.

For example, lets say pirates get somewhat relegated to anarchy. In that case there needs to be some incentive to get traders to go to anarchy systems. Higher payouts or something. Otherwise piracy is even more dead than it already is.

And a bunch of issues I have with murderhoboing, this doesnt fix them.

I'm pretty sure I saw you post about massacres taking place when new "science" sites were discovered. Like barnacles or something. Since those are almost always anarchy, they will still be killing fields.

And that stuff is normally in Anarchy systems, right? Barancles, INRA, Generation Ships?

If the BGS meant a particularly good trade route opened in one or more neighbouring anarchy systems (for OPEN only)?

If the BGS meant some rewarding missions became available to one or more neighbouring anarchy systems (for OPEN only)?

If an OPEN only CG was based in one or more neighbouring anarchy systems?

But I would repeat, I think the C&P (Karma) mechanics needs to penalise repeat illegal destruction everywhere, even in anarchy systems. It makes no sense for it not to from a gampleay point of view and from a game universe point of view.

 

[sovapid]

As regards PvP, anarchy systems should be more dangerous as regards having your cargo stolen.

And this where people are different and want different things out of the game. I'm not particularly a murderhobo even though I pvp.

But I like having the murderhobos around (usually) even when I'm not doing combat.

I realize I am probably in the minority, but I want the challenge/thrill of the risk of death.

Just this week I was doing the Palin/Thargoid materials missions in Maia. I've just recently had surgery and was a bit out of it (still on painkillers) so I started off playing in private group because I wasn't sure if my reaction time etc would be good enough to fly in open. But it got boring, so even in those circumstances I switched over to open to make in more interesting/exciting.

The only part I don't like about those is being absolutely defenseless on the planet when picking up the mats. It is anarchy, so none of the C&P would change anything in the future. And there is no defense/solution other than not landing there if there is a murderhobo there.

Same with cargo CG's. I had been doing a bunch of those in open. And the fun of it was the risk of death. I wasn't the only one who thought that way as the traders would occasionally chat in game.

 

[sovapid]

If the BGS meant a particularly good trade route opened in one or more neighbouring anarchy systems (for OPEN only)?

If the BGS meant some rewarding missions became available to one or more neighbouring anarchy systems (for OPEN only)?

If an OPEN only CG was based in one or more neighbouring anarchy systems?

Completely agree on all of this. Hopefully this is something else that comes out of Beyond. And why it is hard for me to comment on the proposals over in the Beyond forum. C&P changes in isolation are hard to have an opinion on because it all needs to be part of larger changes.

 

[Han Zulu]

Except there are no changes in game play to get 'clean' pilots go to anarchy systems.

For example, lets say pirates get somewhat relegated to anarchy. In that case there needs to be some incentive to get traders to go to anarchy systems. Higher payouts or something. Otherwise piracy is even more dead than it already is.

It would allow FDev to have those exploit places again, with slave trading, smuggling, and such, for higher payouts. You go there. Make more money. But much higher risks. (But it should probably only be in Open)