News Support update - Reiteration of player harassment rules

Can I have your stuff?

HEY! Get in line! I asked first!

Chance, did you know that walking up to a cop and telling him you are doing to commit a crime and then actually committing the crime gets you a much harsher sentence? You did that in this thread, you kind of put FD in a corner, so, it's been nice man, enjoy whatever game you move on.
 
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You guys despise us for no other reason than that we enjoy killing others and you'll find any excuse to try and stop that from happening.

Personally i more pity you for your lack in social education and resonsibilty. But on the other hand i dont see why someone who is openly stating that all he is interested in is spoiling others fun shoulnt be despised. You (and your group) have earned the right to be "persona non grata" everywhere in game (and i predict soon in the FD forum also) by your antisocial behaviour in game and forum.
 
Some folks just can't steer clear of insults.

How about we start shadow banning some of the less savory folk on the forum?

I mean the forum rules are pretty clear on this, if people want to continually flout these then they should expect Frontier to act.

:|

How about letting FD decide what an insult is?

IMO pitying someone for an obivous (by his own actions) lack in certain skills isnt an insult. But i am willing to stand corrected if FD sees that different.

I am NOT willing to be corrected by some salty PvPer that wants to get back at someone he cant get back at ingame (because solo and mobius) so he wants FD to "punish" them(me) for evading his wrath :)
 
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FD (moderators) Decided. FD (Moderators) acted.

Emergent Gameplay FTW !

Still...

Lock this thread or move it to solo v group v open.
The original post is a clarification and affirmation of rules and regulations, guidelines of which Elite Dangerous belongs to.
It is not open for debate.
This isn't Shareware.
Forum Moderators need to stop these absurd 'debates' getting out of hand.
 
Thank you for proving my point. You guys can white knight and hide behind Frontier's skirts with the made up "harassment" excuse but it all boils down to the strict anti-pvp views that so many of you have. You guys despise us for no other reason than that we enjoy killing others and you'll find any excuse to try and stop that from happening.
That seems to be hubris speaking, I don't hate or despise you, I don't know you, why would I invest time into actively despising someone I don't know? I read what is written, and I respond to it, that is about the level of investment I have in this whole thing, its been seen before, I try to bring my view up, because it is one that allows us to move on, I try to motivate to instead of thinking of the one thing you cannot do, think of the many other things you can do, and I try to correct when you keep saying that people dislike PvP, because that simply isn't the case, this whole issue is not around PvP, but entirely and only around those that want to kill others simply for the fun of watching someone that can't defend themselves blow up.
I've met and seen many people respond in similar ways to similar situations, and the same thing always happens, eventually you get 'bored' and move on, because the one thing you want to do becomes too difficult for you to do, so your attention wanders to somewhere where doing so is easier, instead of looking at all the other options before you.
But lets get this straight, there's been no "white knight"'s in these threads, and frankly I think it is a bit insulting to many of us that do enjoy actual proper PvP, where it is a battle of skill and wit, that you keep saying that PvP is affected, when it so very clearly isn't, trying to make it as if frontier is trying to ruin PvP of which they are clearly not.
The fact alone that you don't seem to even want to read points and think about them but instead go "you are wrong, and you are wrong, and frontier is wrong, and I am getting oppressed!" without once even trying to acknowledge that maybe you are the one in the wrong.
And that in all this discussion there really is only one group of people that would be upset by this issue, those it affects, those doing the stuff they are not allowed to.

Chose one of the many options before you, but please stop with this hubris and paranoia, you are not unique, this behaviour has been seen many times before, people are not out to get you, in fact I'm pretty sure the vast majority of those in this thread, once not reading it, entirely forget it, until they read it again, you are simply not that important.

But you could be, you could be an important part of the universe and making your mark in the universe, you have many possible options open before you, chose one of them, become someone known for something, rather then seemingly wanting to be known as yet another group belonging to a mass of people who seemingly just want to impose themselves on others, step on others and feel proud doing so. Or at least that is how the communications from SDC has looked so far.

And do not I'm not saying SDC couldn't do otherwise or hasn't, but clearly the focus on this issue has hit a nerve with you, which would seem to indicate you are well aware that you have crossed the line, and are scrambling to deflect the issue.
Instead you could go "cool, ok frontier says not to do this, lets find another way to be evil/murders/phycopaths/whatever, that does not involve griefing/harassment" - But that's just my thoughts you know.
 
So yeah, FDev, you might as well just go full out and create a massive list of guidelines so that we know what counts as 'legitimate PVP' and what counts as 'harassment' cuz I don't even know anymore, all of this is so silly.

Since this game is marketed as for 7 years or older, type it out so even a 4 year old child can understand it.
 
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So yeah, FDev, you might as well just go full out and create a massive list of guidelines so that we know what counts as 'legitimate PVP' and what counts as 'harassment' cuz I don't even know anymore, all of this is so silly.

Since this game is marketed as for 7 years or older, type it out so even a 4 year old child can understand it.

Wouldn't the best response be 'If you wouldn't do it to a 7 year old, you shouldn't do it to anyone!'?
 
Was it the recent Lave Radio podcast that David Braben mentioned a study on griefing backed up by statistics that claimed each griefer in the average online game was responsible for a population drop of approximately 50 players? I can't remember who actually said it. I'd like to see that study. If that is the case, if FDEV have potential sales of paintjobs/expansions/names/etc snatched away like that, it seems logical enough that FDEV will want to do something about it.

I see a lot of talk about rights and legal mumbo-jumbo being thrown about, but what is the basic argument for salt mining?

Does that argument outweigh the possible cost to the community (in terms of shrinkage) and the game's future (in terms of development budgets)?
 
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So yeah, FDev, you might as well just go full out and create a massive list of guidelines so that we know what counts as 'legitimate PVP' and what counts as 'harassment' cuz I don't even know anymore, all of this is so silly.

Since this game is marketed as for 7 years or older, type it out so even a 4 year old child can understand it.

If a four year old child could understand it, why are you struggling? :D
 
So yeah, FDev, you might as well just go full out and create a massive list of guidelines so that we know what counts as 'legitimate PVP' and what counts as 'harassment' cuz I don't even know anymore, all of this is so silly.

Since this game is marketed as for 7 years or older, type it out so even a 4 year old child can understand it.

I've always been partial to, "Don't put others in a situation that you, yourself don't want to be in."
Now granted it is usually countered with "If it was me I would just do......." which yeah, because apparently they don't want to understand what I mean, because I mean that 'exact' situation....but yeah you know.
 
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Thank you for proving my point. You guys can white knight and hide behind Frontier's skirts with the made up "harassment" excuse but it all boils down to the strict anti-pvp views that so many of you have. You guys despise us for no other reason than that we enjoy killing others and you'll find any excuse to try and stop that from happening.
Ok, someone has to say it. Has it occurred to you that none of this would have happened if your group had only respected the boundaries that more than one private group had set up, to in the words of your own members, mine salt? Seriously, it's not your pvp views that caused any of this. It was when you just couldn't leave the pve crowd alone that Frontier finally had to do something.
 
Was it the recent Lave Radio podcast that David Braben mentioned a study on griefing backed up by statistics that claimed each griefer in the average online game was responsible for a population drop of approximately 50 players? I can't remember who actually said it. I'd like to see that study. If that is the case, if FDEV have potential sales of paintjobs/expansions/names/etc snatched away like that, it seems logical enough that FDEV will want to do something about it.

I see a lot of talk about rights and legal mumbo-jumbo being thrown about, but what is the basic argument for salt mining?

Does that argument outweigh the possible cost to the community (in terms of shrinkage) and the game's future (in terms of development budgets)?

I'm not sure if DBOBE was talking about the same thing, but the impetus for developing the Trammel/Felucca split in Ultima Online was the hideous losses the game was suffering. A basic study showed that each griefer cost the game fifty customers. In its earliest form that wasn’t a problem- fresh players were rushing in to replace the guys who got fed up with constantly being victimised. There was much talk of new players just having to toughen up, or experienced players having responsibilities to the newbs. (Sound familiar?) Over time though, it became apparent that the griefers were only interested in victimising other players, there was no effective defence against them and a huge number of players just walked. More research showed that the players who left weren’t interested in returning- no matter what changes were promised. Ultima was a very expensive game to run, it was ground breaking and many of its features were costly for the publisher. It was on its last legs when the team finally split the PvP and PvE communities.
Interestingly enough, it quickly became apparent that many in the PvP world weren’t particularly interested in PvP- when the supply of victims dried up, they left the game, rather than revelling in the opportunity to finally face willing and equal opposition.
The PvE world exploded in popularity, saving the series.

Here’s some of Raph Koster’s thoughts a few months after the split:
http://www.raphkoster.com/gaming/postmortem.shtml
 
I'm not sure if DBOBE was talking about the same thing, but the impetus for developing the Trammel/Felucca split in Ultima Online was the hideous losses the game was suffering. A basic study showed that each griefer cost the game fifty customers. In its earliest form that wasn’t a problem- fresh players were rushing in to replace the guys who got fed up with constantly being victimised. There was much talk of new players just having to toughen up, or experienced players having responsibilities to the newbs. (Sound familiar?) Over time though, it became apparent that the griefers were only interested in victimising other players, there was no effective defence against them and a huge number of players just walked. More research showed that the players who left weren’t interested in returning- no matter what changes were promised. Ultima was a very expensive game to run, it was ground breaking and many of its features were costly for the publisher. It was on its last legs when the team finally split the PvP and PvE communities.
Interestingly enough, it quickly became apparent that many in the PvP world weren’t particularly interested in PvP- when the supply of victims dried up, they left the game, rather than revelling in the opportunity to finally face willing and equal opposition.
The PvE world exploded in popularity, saving the series.

Here’s some of Raph Koster’s thoughts a few months after the split:
http://www.raphkoster.com/gaming/postmortem.shtml
Funny how that works.
 
...type it out so even a 4 year old child can understand it.

"You're in very big trouble for sneaking into Billy's birthday party to do naughty things.

"What you did at his party last year with the whipped cream and the cat made everyone very cross indeed. That's why you weren't invited this year.

"But you went anyway, didn't you? You tricked Billy by wearing a Spiderman mask, ran inside, and promptly wrote the word "poo" on the rug with mayonnaise.

"Mummy and Daddy are very upset about how naughty you are, which is why we're selling you to the University for medical experiment."
 
So yeah, FDev, you might as well just go full out and create a massive list of guidelines so that we know what counts as 'legitimate PVP' and what counts as 'harassment' cuz I don't even know anymore, all of this is so silly.

Since this game is marketed as for 7 years or older, type it out so even a 4 year old child can understand it.

Chances are if you don't understand or disagree with the new statement then you're probably the subject of it. I'm considering starting an online etiquette school for those who are unsure how to behave appropriately on the internet (the same basic rules of humanity apply whether you're in Elite, on Twitter or writing a blog post).

What an interesting read. Thanks for posting the link. [up]
I hope FD are serious about weeding out the chaff. I've had fun playing this game so far. When it stops being fun, no doubt I will move on.

It was a fascinating case and more companies are waking up to the fallout. I'm sure it hasn't gone unnoticed that the Elite players in question often target systems where 'noobs' spawn, like Eravate. It's gotten more acute in recent weeks too. Nobody was targeting new players in an organised manner when the game first launched, not to this scale. It was surprising that Frontier took this long to take a clear stance.
 
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IMHO it actually takes a bit of self-discipline and willpower NOT to quit out. To either stay there and fight, keep a calm head and try to high wake or just bite the bullet and accept that death at the hands of another player is a valid part of the game.

This is pretty insightful, actually. I had this very reaction once. I had too much to lose and was flying in TZ Arietis trying to gain rep with the Sublime Order of Van Maanen's Star... for which I garnered a "Wanted" tag upon completing a mission. Another CMDR saw me and interdicted me. In this one, and only one, instance I was actually tempted to pull the plug. I literally had to remind myself, "I chose to play in open. I'm wanted. I'm fair game." I'm glad I chose the RIGHT thing to do by playing the game and playing fair. The PvPer was NOT a griefer. I didn't stay and fight though... I ran and managed to escape with most of my hull intact.
 
So yeah, FDev, you might as well just go full out and create a massive list of guidelines so that we know what counts as 'legitimate PVP' and what counts as 'harassment' cuz I don't even know anymore, all of this is so silly.

Since this game is marketed as for 7 years or older, type it out so even a 4 year old child can understand it.

As Zac said in the OP: "In addition, running a livestream in Open does invite the potential for players to approach and impact your gameplay". The main point of this clarification is against people going out of their way to invade Private Groups. PvP in Open should be relatively unaffected.
 
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