News Support update - Reiteration of player harassment rules

[Agony_Aunt]

If people don't want to be attacked, then all they have to do is to stay in solo mode, I did not buy this game and it's extension at full price to get banned because FDev is bowing in front of care bears that can't assume that they are playing a game with PvP interactions. If I want to kill someone in game, there is no TOS or whatever to stop me from doing it, and if they do so, well, then all they have to do is to refund the people that they screwed.

Or group mode. Group is there to allow friends to play together. I have 20,000 friends, and love each and every one of them.

 

[Chance-]

That's what Braben did in the Lave Radio interview, he clearly said that he is willing to shadowban "griefers", once again, listening to the majority of crybabies to roast the minority of people that want to play the game as criminals.

Braben makes me laugh everytime he does that kind of thing. I watched it and couldn't help but wonder if he even consults his lawyers before he says stuff like that because he CAN NOT do that without having to issue mass refunds for changing a policy in a game that was advertised with "or just hunt other players" as part of the slogan.

 

[Aigaion]

Or group mode. Group is there to allow friends to play together. I have 20,000 friends, and love each and every one of them.

Basically yes, you are right. As long as people click on open play, the only right they have in case of death is to shut up.

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Braben makes me laugh everytime he does that kind of thing. I watched it and couldn't help but wonder if he even consults his lawyers before he says stuff like that because he CAN NOT do that without having to issue mass refunds for changing a policy in a game that was advertised with "or just hunt other players" as part of the slogan.

i'm not going to enter the details for what I think about Braben, but basically, the game is handled freestyle from above.

 

[MahdDogg]

You may also want to rethink your stance on this as this goes against the fair use act which can and very likely will result in legal action should you decide to do that.

What Zac is saying has nothing to do with fair use. You can post the videos and they can't take them down, but the action of posting that video (specifically for the reasons Zac described) can see you face ramifications for breaching the harassment clause of the EULA.

 

[Roybe]

Or group mode. Group is there to allow friends to play together. I have 20,000 friends, and love each and every one of them.

But they can still be harassed by those that would want to do this. Basically, the only PvE mode in the game really is Solo. Reiterating that FDev will take no action against people that harass in Private modes UNTIL they do it a second time (again, how does the group owner know? <SHRUG>)..then there would be repercussions, which no one will be made privy to.

 

[Chance-]

Wow. Diving into the realm of harassment on an Internet mmo. Here comes the class action suit followed by mass refunds.
There is a thread on these forums right now inciting inflame harassment against a specific group. It calls for members of mobius and others to actively undermine SDCs player faction in wolfburg. It also incites many slanderous insults toward the player group SDC. Will you please take action against everyone participating in that thread. Thank you.

My favorite part about this is that if we go into the group that they are undermining our group in in order to defend ourselves from their harrassment of our player group and private faction, we will then be banned for going into that group to try and stop the harassment but would be banned for harrassment. It's hilariously hypocritical.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Hey zac, the solution to this entire issue would be to actually make highsec systems HIGH SEC, basically meaning that the NPC reaction time to an illegal interdiction is immediate and their AI is basically godlike (but still killable) and they come in swarms. High sec police should be military equipped instead of vipers/eagles. on the flip side, lowsec and Anarchy should be absolute pirate havens with no rules and no police response (Anarchy) or very slow/weak response in lowsec. This would protect players in secure systems and protect pirates/smugglers in systems that matches their profile. On the HUD we can have an indicator as to what security the system that we're in is or the system that we're about to jump to is.

THIS is what the players want and THIS is what will fix our issues. A REAL crime/punishment system.

But it wouldn't solve the issue of someone going into a PvE only private group, being kicked out, then using an alt account to go back in, enter an Anarchy system, and killing players there with zero response from the AI.

Double check what issue is being addressed here. Its not to do with PvP in general. This announcement has nothing to say about PvP happening in Open being a problem, if fact, as far as i'm awere, FD have nothing against PvP in Open.

 

[Aigaion]

But they can still be harassed by those that would want to do this. Basically, the only PvE mode in the game really is Solo. Reiterating that FDev will take no action against people that harass in Private modes UNTIL they do it a second time (again, how does the group owner know? <SHRUG>)..then there would be repercussions, which no one will be made privy to.

They won't do anything at all, they don't even ban combat loggers, how can you expect them to seriously take actions against harassment ?

 

[Chance-]

What Zac is saying has nothing to do with fair use. You can post the videos and they can't take them down, but the action of posting that video (specifically for the reasons Zac described) can see you face ramifications for breaching the harassment clause of the EULA.

I misunderstood what the actions would be against the videos. Trying to ban for those videos isn't against fair use but is a different issue entirely.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

But they can still be harassed by those that would want to do this. Basically, the only PvE mode in the game really is Solo. Reiterating that FDev will take no action against people that harass in Private modes UNTIL they do it a second time (again, how does the group owner know? <SHRUG>)..then there would be repercussions, which no one will be made privy to.

Not so hard: Harass with Account A, group mod reports and kicks. Harass with Account B, group mod reports and kicks. FDev check files and see both accounts owned by same individual and take action as they see fit.

 

[bootsam]

I read that statement as harrassing private groups etc. I dont think it meant shooting a few peeps in open. The word was plain. The word was --CONTEXT. I think you are safe in your murderous ways Aig.

 

[Chance-]

Double check what issue is being addressed here. Its not to do with PvP in general. This announcement has nothing to say about PvP happening in Open being a problem, if fact, as far as i'm awere, FD have nothing against PvP in Open.

That isn't what was said though? Killing certain players (streamers) in open can also be punished now if they are streaming for charity and THEY FEEL that we had bad intentions in doing so.

 

[Aigaion]

I read that statement as harrassing private groups etc. I dont think it meant shooting a few peeps in open. The word was plain. The word was --CONTEXT. I think you are safe in your murderous ways Aig.

Until the day the crybabies want FDev to take actions against the people that roast their space junk in open. Give people your finger, they will ask for your hand, give them your hand, they will ask for your arm.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

My favorite part about this is that if we go into the group that they are undermining our group in in order to defend ourselves from their harrassment of our player group and private faction, we will then be banned for going into that group to try and stop the harassment but would be banned for harrassment. It's hilariously hypocritical.

Your player group being the one who openly griefed in a non PvP group and actively announced it was fine to take down the NPC group and our group being the one playing absolutely as the game is designed

 

[Alex Traut]

If people don't want to be attacked

No, stop there. You still appear to have misunderstood the message in this announcement about as badly as it is possible to do so. I don't get the impression you even read the comment you quoted, so disconnected is it from the actual meaning.

It's this simple:

If you enjoy the game by trying to stop others from enjoying it and upsetting them, or if your actions have the specific intent of harassing or inflicting distress on another real-world human being, then you are breaking the rules.

If all you're doing is engaging in ordinary PvP with no real-world malicious intent, then keep enjoying the game the way you always have.

Clear now?

 

[Roybe]

Not so hard: Harass with Account A, group mod reports and kicks. Harass with Account B, group mod reports and kicks. FDev check files and see both accounts owned by same individual and take action as they see fit.

Yeah but how does the Group Owner know when to report to FDEv? They cannot see the account relationships. If they report every kick, will Support be able to investigate every one of them? It just seems that the statements made and the capabilities of the players are at odds. Again...how it works in the long run...will be interesting to watch.

 

[Aigaion]

No, stop there. You still appear to have misunderstood the message it this announcement about as badly as it is possible to do so. I don't get the impression you even read the comment you quoted, so disconnected is it from the actual meaning.

It's this simple:

If you enjoy the game by trying to stop others from enjoying it and upsetting them, or if your actions have the specific intent of harassing or inflicting distress on another real-world human being, then you are breaking the rules.

If all you're doing is engaging in ordinary PvP with no real-world malicious intent, then keep enjoying the game the way you always have.

Clear now?

I didn't misunderstand anything, you are just not catching the meaning of what I say. Read the post I sended above.

 

[xondk]

Thats exactly what some people would want the game to be like. Sadly the truth is if the game was like that it would probably a bigger following / online community.

Gamers live for the gank, its what games like EVE, Ark, DayZ etc. are based on.

Gank is not the problem last I checked, ganking is not griefing, griefing is considered harassment.
Ganking is simply teaming up against a target you wouldn't be able to take otherwise, and yes, that is what many games are about, but there is still battle even if lopsided.
Where griefing is basically where the power difference is so great that the victim is just that a victim, very little choice in the matter, like for example if a corvette interdicts and outright destroys a hauler or such, no interaction other then destruction, no reason given, no in game reason or in game 'gain' gotten from the kill. Basically when the only thing being able to be gotten from is laughing over another persons death, then it is griefing.
Where Ganking often involves actual PvP battles even though they are lopsided, I've seen many videos with failed ganking attempts because defenders were smart.
So in short.
Ganking - A tactic used by a group against an enemy they wouldn't be able to take under other conditions.
Griefing - The act of doing actions in a game that are motivated by the wish to cause others grief, annoy them, harass them, bullying them, however you want to describe it, actions that have no in game reason, or in game gain.

As I said, I find some comfort in knowing that the devs are clarifying their stance to this poor example of gamesmanship. I am interested in watching if their enforcement of these rules will prevent anyone from doing these 'things' in the future. I've seen some expected responses that this will be problematic within this thread.

On IP, you are right players can't do that, I was simply referring to frontier's ability to take action.
On stream sniping: I read what is written as "If you stand in a crowd and shout that you are going to punch people in the crowd that look like x, don't be surprised if people that look that way come over and punch you first."
In short, if a pirate is streaming openly, you can kinda expect that some bounty hunters might be peeking on it if its public.
Same though if a bounty hunter is clearly actively hunting pirates, you can kinda expect some pirates might go for him.
Or if someone is powerplaying and is in an enemy system underming, you can kinda expect that some of his enemies might look at the stream and locate him through it.
You should kinda expect it.

 

[Chance-]

No, stop there. You still appear to have misunderstood the message it this announcement about as badly as it is possible to do so. I don't get the impression you even read the comment you quoted, so disconnected is it from the actual meaning.

It's this simple:

If you enjoy the game by trying to stop others from enjoying it and upsetting them, or if your actions have the specific intent of harassing or inflicting distress on another real-world human being, then you are breaking the rules.

If all you're doing is engaging in ordinary PvP with no real-world malicious intent, then keep enjoying the game the way you always have.

Clear now?

It's this simple:
They CAN'T MODERATE ON INTENT. Either killing is ok or its not you can't moderate off of your moral standards. The game was advertised as being allowed to hunt other players and players can do just that no matter their intentions.

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Your player group being the one who openly griefed in a non PvP group and actively announced it was fine to take down the NPC group and our group being the one playing absolutely as the game is designed

We don't care about you attacking the minor faction, we care about Frontier being incredibly hypocritical in allowing you guys to harass us but trying to ban us for what they deem is harassment even though it is specifically allowed within the TOS, EULA, and the mechanics of the game.

 

[Aigaion]

Did a quick search, found, your videos on the subject and thats it...
So yeah, just know, I'm not saying you haven't experienced it, or that it doesn't exist, but the extend of it seems very limited?
And if you have seen him in open, when was it after reports? you do realize that in most cases people are warned first? meaning he could have gotten a warning, and has stopped?

Very limited ? Almost the half of the people I interdict for piracy are combat loggers. Anyway, I don't really care about what they did or plan to do, it 2 videos showing combatlogging are not enough for them to ban someone, then they should at least not try to convince us that they are going to take actions against harassment.