Ta-ra

[marx]

One lesser point:

The Orrery is pathetic compared to the concept art originally offered. I would expect it in the original game, not something written in the 21st century.

It's worth noting that the orrery map of Elite: Dangerous, or Elite 4, is worse than that of Frontier: Elite 2. It looks like another rush job that uses placeholder assets. Still, I hope they'll improve upon it later; after all, the system map can render bodies as they look.

More realistically, I feel it was an intentional bait-and-switch based on the lack of a development feedback process, not meeting commitments in order to provide things most people weren't asking for in the first place, etc.

Probably not intentional at the start, but it should be fairly obvious by now that for whatever reasons, they couldn't meet their original plans. First, there was a whole focused feedback section promised for exploration, then that was postponed indefinitely, then it turned into a single thread, which turned out to be mostly what we ended up getting. (Except the barebones orrery, which came as a surprise.) Also, don't forget that the icy planet revamp and fleet carriers were also postponed. Not to mention whether PowerPlay will be open only or not.

However, imagine the outcry if they came out and said "sorry, but to get the exploration update right, we'll have to postpone it from Chapter Four, and can't give you a release estimate yet". Hoo boy.

 

[Burke]

Well hello there, Mr Pot. Have you met Mr Kettle yet?

Somebody say pot?

But seriously i dont. If you look at my posts i have actually helped quite a few people. But i admit the flaw is with me if somebody charges at me on a forum i cant help dangling a red rag. Im bad. Im sorry

 

[Burke]

Same goes for me as well. It's not really difficult but fun and interesting and needs some practice and patience. Not suggesting going back to this method (that would be insane and certainly would lead to a huge portion of players leaving the game), but as an attempt to explain why some of the older players that grew up with this method hate the ADS (and all its possible remnants as well) with such a passion.

This method was basically a huge immersion booster as it has the potential to build an image in your brain about the true scale of a system - long before any VR devices came into play. And then the ADS was introduced that washed all our virtual VR experience (sounds strange I know ) away and made a mockery of it with a single ugly honk.

That's where we are now: talking to people who most of them never have experienced the fascination of the parallax method (and to be fair, some of us never liked it) and are now more or less talking to the wall.

It sounds quite similar to how i (used to) approach gas giants to get most or all moons from a single location. I dont think i would enjoy planet hunting this way tbh but it is rather more realistic, if such a word can apply.

 

[OGREMAN]

Sorry to see you go … hopefully the post-BETA update will address some of the issues that people have been talking about and you can be tempted back !!

Personally, I'm liking how it is *so* much easier to find planet based POIs. No more hunting around for blue dots, only to find it's some rock formation.

I found my first fumarole (actually a planet full of them!!) yesterday which was quite exciting.

I think the overall solution (which has been suggested elsewhere) might be:-

(1) to re-instate the old ADS honk so it brings up the system "layout".
(2) then use the FSS to perform what the old DSS did (i.e. tell you the chemical make-up of the planet) plus any POIs there might be.
(3) finally, if you want, you can fly to the planet and use the new DSS probe scanning for more detailed info / POI location / etc.

That way, explorers looking for interesting system layouts are catered for.
People who want to scan entire system can do so much quicker (using the FSS)
And if you're hunting POIs or want to map every planet, you can still do that.

Just my £0.02

o7

I have not followed the beta test or reveal vids on this subject but reading this thread leads me to conclude that your (summary) solution to peoples concerns is a well balanced one that has merit. (rep given) Most importantly it satisfies a desire for a slightly more casual form of system mapping without revealing full details of planetry sites of special interest. This " tuning" some special sensor device sounds like a nasty time sink to me …. so not an improvement to the gameplay experience in elite. That said I will reserve judgment until I have it in my released version. It is always sad to read that very long standing players that have made significant contributions to a game community feel they cannot stomach the change that is being imposed upon them. I hope JACKIE SILVER finds a happy way forward in his/her gaming future.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

You are doing what Burke is doing. Trying to belittle the people who like it so you can happily dismiss their opinion.

Personally i am seriously shocked by the stubbornness with which some people refuse to understand the reasons why those "few" dislike the new system.

Because half the time the reasons make little or no logical sense.

People have been so indoctrinated with the God honk, it seems the idea of actually doing the discovery yourself fills them with dread.

 

[varonica]

Where's my popcorn icon! [where is it]

 

[Fractal_Shard]

Sigh, whatever FDev does nobody will be happy. People complain to them wanting more depth to exploration. They add new mechanics that make you actually have to use tools to find things instead of having an omnipotent scanner, and all people do is complain that they cant see an entire system from its star and actually have to devote time to explore a system. Bye, you'll probably come back, and if you don't, oh well.

 

[Sunyavadin]

They add new mechanics that make you actually have to use tools to find things instead of having an omnipotent scanner, and all people do is complain that they cant see an entire system from its star and actually have to devote time to explore a system.

Everyone who prefers the old system was fine actually having to take time to explore systems. Because it didn't take them out of the game into an unengaging 2D puzzler for extended periods to do it. Spending 15m flying to the star you found interesting on the sysmap was more engaging.

 

[Fractal_Shard]

Everyone who prefers the old system was fine actually having to take time to explore systems. Because it didn't take them out of the game into an unengaging 2D puzzler for extended periods to do it. Spending 15m flying to the star you found interesting on the sysmap was more engaging.

Well to save time and possible hostilities I'll just say I welcome this change. I love the new tool and nothing anyone says will change that. I was merely arguing my point across. Yes, I am also aware the antithesis of my statement applies to other people as well.

 

[Burke]

hey Ziggy Stardust


I never belittled anybody for liking the new system. I just find it genuinely incomprehensable how anybody could either like the new way or like it more than the old and even if they did i expect they will be all done with exploration in a matter of weeks.

I also object to having the new way forced on me, thats all. I know you were just quoting but yeah..no belittling.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Sigh, whatever FDev does nobody will be happy. People complain to them wanting more depth to exploration. They add new mechanics that make you actually have to use tools to find things instead of having an omnipotent scanner, and all people do is complain that they cant see an entire system from its star and actually have to devote time to explore a system.

If they had only added new mechanics, we'd not be having this discussion.

But I see you are confused about motivators of those complaining. Now mind, I'm not speaking for anyone but myself here, so other people who complain may have different reasons to complain. What the new mechanic does is replace a feature which I used to determine spending time in a system. From that point on I have had many enjoyable system exploring sessions. Now I am one of those who complained about wanting more depth. And that was in line of having more stuff to investigate inside a system. I am not that excited finding out a system has not one, but 2 gas giants in it. Those sort of discoveries are not what rocks my boat. All the while, that is the reward of the new system. I very much hope that the POIs in the live version will be much more varied than what I saw in the beta. Because it's that part of exploration I would have like to have seen fleshed out.

Again, and I have to repeat this, this is all subjective. Other players do get a kick out of discovering a system's make-up. It's not up to me to universally decide it's a bad feature. But I can very accurately determine my preferences and am able to tell you:
Using tools to find things, means pointing at a glowing blob, and fiddling with the scanner until the pointy thing goes white and starts making garbled noises (the noises are excellent by the way). For me personally, that's not much of a discovery, just a box to tick.
Actually devoting time to explore a system, is an odd way of describing: parking yourself near a sun and from there ping every blob until the system is resolved. It takes less time, and removes the traveling inside a system.

I don't consider the beta a good test whether this new mechanism will be successful. The real test will be a long journey, using the new mechanics for an extended period of time. If I get back to the Bubble and can't wait for my next journey, the mechanics work. If I am happy to get back to the Bubble because it means that journey is finally over, the mechanics have ruined exploration for me.

Bye, you'll probably come back, and if you don't, oh well.

Being honest you don't care about other people's enjoyment of the game at least is ... honest.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I just find it genuinely incomprehensible how anybody could either like the new way or like it more than the old and even if they did i expect they will be all done with exploration in a matter of weeks.

I hear Friends is a very popular sitcom.
I hate Friends with a passion.

There's no arguing people's preferences. There's only arguing people's deliberate misrepresentation of people's preferences.

 

[Chrystoph]

Sigh, whatever FDev does nobody will be happy. People complain to them wanting more depth to exploration. They add new mechanics that make you actually have to use tools to find things instead of having an omnipotent scanner, and all people do is complain that they cant see an entire system from its star and actually have to devote time to explore a system. Bye, you'll probably come back, and if you don't, oh well.

So, since we are being undiplomatic, what exactly are your qualifications to get into this conversation? Any major expeditions under your belt to entitle you to be the kind of person that people routinely ascribe the title of anatomy related to biowaste in relation to one of the legends of the exploration community? Elite status in Exploration that was earned as opposed to Road to Riches? Oh, wait, I think I am doing "you" better than you are, I should stop.

I will freely admit that you have pushed 2 of my hot buttons here; firstly, being an insulting non-contributor, second telling someone the game is better off without them, with the corollary that you passively DILLIGAF instead of using active language.

As to "complaining", I feel that the new methodology is a timesink that doesn't improve exploration, it merely makes it, as the OP states, more obfuscated and less valuable against the time invested. A glass of water is shallow compared to a swimming pool, but, if all they contain is water, the depth is of no value when you look at them.

 

[Fractal_Shard]

Being honest you don't care about other people's enjoyment of the game at least is ... honest.

Yes, I personally don't care about people enjoyment because they are not me, in the sense, that whether or not they enjoy something is irrelevant to me enjoying the game.

EDIT* After re-reading my post it came off, to me, as somewhat insulting, which was not my intention. It was more a matter of fact common sense statement.

 

[Fractal_Shard]

So, since we are being undiplomatic, what exactly are your qualifications to get into this conversation?

I don't need any "qualifications" (news flash, there are none) to join the conversation.

Any major expeditions under your belt to entitle you to be the kind of person that people routinely ascribe the title of anatomy related to biowaste in relation to one of the legends of the exploration community?

Ad hominem does not deserve a response. The "Have you done better?" argument is a hollow position to hold that isn't a counter point at all"

Elite status in Exploration that was earned as opposed to Road to Riches?

You don't know what I've done in game, as such a baseless assumption that has no place to be a counter point. My response, I've never done the Road to Riches although I plan to with the exploration pay bump.

Oh, wait, I think I am doing "you" better than you are, I should stop.

See second quote response.

firstly, being an insulting non-contributor

Offer a differing opinion is not insulting. I apologize that my opinion wounded you so deeply. Whether or not I'm famous is irrelevant. Again you don't know what I've contributed.

second telling someone the game is better off without them, with the corollary that you passively DILLIGAF instead of using active language.

Never said the game was better off without him. I said "oh well". Him leaving doesn't affect me in anyway therefore my response was neutral.

Your response is akin to a zealot's response to someone who insulted their god/cuase/country. Now since you decided to attack me instead of being a level headed adult and responding like ziggy's response to me I have no interest in speaking to you further. Don't expect a response. If you continue to bother me after this point I'll just mute you. Have a wonderful day!

 

[Burke]

I wonder if you know max? You seem to have his posting style. Coincidental im sure.

 

[marx]

EDIT* After re-reading my post it came off, to me, as somewhat insulting, which was not my intention. It was more a matter of fact common sense statement.

Let's see then...

Sigh, whatever FDev does nobody will be happy. People complain to them wanting more depth to exploration. They add new mechanics that make you actually have to use tools to find things instead of having an omnipotent scanner, and all people do is complain that they cant see an entire system from its star and actually have to devote time to explore a system. Bye, you'll probably come back, and if you don't, oh well.

First, they didn't add new mechanics, they replaced earlier mechanics with different ones. If there were additions only, there most likely would have been next to no controversy.

Second, I'm not sure about your common sense statements, but where I'm from, common sense would mean that before you'd publicly dismiss peoples' arguments, you'd listen to them first.
In this specific case, you wouldn't even need to go far: good, detailed points have been raised not just in this subforum, but in this specific thread as well. Judging by what you've said, especially your last sentence, it looks like you haven't read it. Update: yup, your latest post confirms this. If you wish to understand others, I'd recommend doing that. And if you don't, oh well.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Wow, surprised by this Jackie. I think you have been a fixture of my friends list from very early on.

Unfortunately the change was always going to be a polarizing one. People have been telling FD for years they wanted more thank just honk and jump, and FD delivered. Unfortunately not all wanted the honk and jump to change and others wanted change but something different, and of course, some like the new system.

Me, i still don't know what to think of it. I think like most changes FD implement, i'll either like it in which case great, or not like it, and then avoid it... although avoiding it and doing DW2 will be erm... problematic.

Anyway, fare thee well, and maybe one day you will return.

 

[Fractal_Shard]

First, they didn't add new mechanics, they replaced earlier mechanics with different ones. If there were additions only, there most likely would have been next to no controversy.

That's my mistake, and you are right. There would have still been controversy, look at mining.

Second, I'm not sure about your common sense statements, but where I'm from, common sense would mean that before you'd publicly dismiss peoples' arguments, you'd listen to them first.
In this specific case, you wouldn't even need to go far: good, detailed points have been raised not just in this subforum, but in this specific thread as well.

People are arguing for why they don't like it. As i said, (I'll be more specific) any point someone makes to try and convince me that I don't like these mechanics won't change my mind, why would I counter them.

Update: yup, your latest post confirms this.

That last post was a guy who was openly insulting me with ad hominem, blatantly made baseless assumptions, and misquotes. I addressed him.

I fail to see why it is so important to "convince" me to like or dislike something. I like it and was addressing my opinion that FDev gets flak no matter what they do and to state what the mechanics encourage, I will admit that " and all people do is complain" was a broad inclusion statement which honestly isn't my intention.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I wonder if you know max? You seem to have his posting style. Coincidental im sure.

.