Thargoid Cargo Reactions Revisited

I finally managed to kill an ancient relic a Thargoid was firing at. Thargoid simply skipped onto firing at the next ancient relic. I could tell I got the kill because the Thargoid didn't make the "I killed it" noise it normally makes before switching targets.

Killing the relic it was firing on DID NOT cause the bug where the Thargoid could no longer shoot, so that's clearly something that only happens once combat has been initiated and this means the bug is probably unique to the SLF.

Interestingly the Thargoid didn't scan all the relics each time before opening fire. It killed 3 plus the one I killed before scanning the next one and opening fire again.
 
People have already mentioned playing the messages that activate the link, but what about actually activating the link, with the beam and all that, while an interceptor is present?
 
- Humanoids are something interesting, so the Thargoids scoop them, but they don't care enough to get their buddies in for them. It feels somewhat unnatural, almost as if it's just a convenience thing.
- Humanoids: They don't care if you have them... but if they happen to be "floating around" they'll grab them. The "lack of care" is also indicative because we aren't attacked on sight.
This I think makes some sense - if they scan your ship and it contains life signs, then it's a spaceship, that's normal. If they scan a cargo pod or similar then that's not normal and they may be trying to rescue what ever is alive in there before it becomes dead.

Are there any rare goods which are live but non-human creatures?
 
This I think makes some sense - if they scan your ship and it contains life signs, then it's a spaceship, that's normal. If they scan a cargo pod or similar then that's not normal and they may be trying to rescue what ever is alive in there before it becomes dead.

Are there any rare goods which are live but non-human creatures?
Live Hecate Sea Worms
Pavonis Ear Grubs
HIP 118311 Swarm
Kachirigin Filter Leeches
Momus Bog Spaniel
Giant Verrix (not sure how they would fit one in a canister?)
Jotun Mookah (the shock will probably kill it)

All sound like they are still alive in the canister

vs say
Giant Irukama Snails
Ceti Rabbits
Karsuki Locusts
HIP Proto-Squid
Mukusubii Chitin-Os
Mulachi Giant Fungus
Albino Quechua Mammoth


Which will be processed into meat etc


Baltah'sine Vacuum Krill

Might be alive?
 
Just an update to this thread... this post piqued my interest, so I investigated.

The reaction to a heart in cargo, besides the spinning which I *believe* to be "normal" (in that thargoids may react that way to any cargo of interest now)

Thargoid Heart also has a unique graphic now, so I took some screenies...

But most importantly, Thargoids now seem to scoop hearts, where before they didn't. I'm going to quickly try with a tissue sample too.

[video=youtube;Ls-XjGjrrvc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls-XjGjrrvc[/video]
 
Thargoids are certainly interested in samples - I often get in a tug-of-war with them when retrieving samples as they try to tractor them back.
 
Thargoids are certainly interested in samples - I often get in a tug-of-war with them when retrieving samples as they try to tractor them back.
That must be new behaviour as of 3.0 as well. They never did in the past in any of my tests... the closest I have of a recording is the following, which was more demonstrating the effect of jetting any relevant cargo. You can see the Thargoid doesn't pull out the... err,, "green liney things" which pull the cargo aboard.

[video=youtube;rMZUeDIxIBA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMZUeDIxIBA[/video]

I'll verify the behaviour later tonight, about to go to work.
 
That must be new behaviour as of 3.0 as well. They never did in the past in any of my tests... the closest I have of a recording is the following, which was more demonstrating the effect of jetting any relevant cargo. You can see the Thargoid doesn't pull out the... err,, "green liney things" which pull the cargo aboard.
You may be right - noticed a couple of times recently - and when the Thargoid was pulling I never had issues with the limpet-vs-hull explosion - so it might actually be useful (slow the limpet down?)
 
Heart Update: It seems Thargoids now scoop up Thargoid Hearts, and the hearts have new graphics too. This is likely in place since 3.0

I recently made a post disputing the commonly-held knowledge about Thargoid reactions to various cargo types. Since then I've reliably reproduced these reactions on several occasions, enough that I'm satisfied of consistency in most of the results. I've also been thinking a fair whack about the various reactions, what the Thargoids scoop, and what it might mean... but before all that.

Different Thargoid reactions to scanning you with different cargo
1. No Cargo of interest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXxR3pJXWrg

This reaction happens if you have no cargo, or you're holding any cargo that's *not* explicitly mentioned in the other videos in this post.

Notes:
- While scanning and immediately after the scan, the Thargoid will hold distance to you at about 350m
- About 6 seconds after the scan, the Thargoid will simply disengage and go on scanning/searching wrecks and cargo
- Sound the Thargoid makes upon completing the scan is almost "bored" or "disappointed"

2. Thargoid Cargo on board

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiJJqCdBme8
While the video shows only Thargoid Resin, I've verified Thargoids will react the same upon detection of any of the following in your hold:
- Thargoid Sensor/Link/Probe
- Thargoid Resin/Technology Samples/Biological Matter
- Thargoid Cyclops/Basilisk/Medusa Tissue Samples
- Thargoid Heart

Notes:
- While scanning and immediately after the scan, the Thargoid will hold distance to you at about 350m
- Upon completion of the scan, you have 25 seconds to drop all relevant cargo. During this time the Thargoid will maintain the 350m distance. If you fail to jettison all relevant cargo in the timeframe, it will release Thargons, flash red and become Hostile on your HUD and immediately engage.
- The sound the Thargoid makes when completing the scan is the same as the noise it makes when you initially enter the NHSS instance and it begins to approach you. More on the noises later.

3. Thargoid reaction to Guardian cargo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVbtFqocuKI
Thargoid will react like shown in this video if you carry any of the following:
- Ancient Orb
- Ancient Casket
- Ancient Totem
- Ancient Tablet
- Ancient Orb
- Ancient Relic

Notes
- While scanning and immediately after the scan, the Thargoid will hold distance to you at about 350m
- Upon completion of the scan, you have 25 seconds to drop all relevant cargo. During this time the Thargoid will maintain the 350m distance, and will also flare red like it does in combat. If you fail to jettison all relevant cargo in the timeframe, it will release Thargons, become Hostile on your HUD and immediately engage.
- The sound the Thargoid makes when completing the scan is the same as the noise it makes when get too close to it or "provoke" it in other ways (like stealing a Probe it was scooping, or countering an EMP blast from a nonhostile Thargoid e.g one which has hyperdicted you). More on the noises later.

4. Thargoid Reaction to Meta Alloys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWB4v26N9us
The following reaction occurs only when you have meta-alloys in the cargo hold.

Notes:
- While scanning and immediately after the scan, the Thargoid will hold distance to you at about 350m
- Upon completion of the scan, you have 25 seconds to drop all the meta alloys. During this time the Thargoid will maintain the 350m distance. If you fail to jettison them in the timeframe, it will release Thargons, flare red, but not become hostile. It will also disengage from the 350m. If you get outside of 500m, it will stop flaring red, and after a short delay will go about it's normal behaviour. This is consistent with a warning given by a Thargoid when you are "too close" to it.
- The sound the Thargoid makes is unique for Meta-alloys. It's almost an "excited" or even "longing" noise. In my opinion, it's almost comparable to both the noise the Thargoid makes when it destroys a ship (another CMDR or one of your fighters) and when the Thargoid dies. Again, more on sounds later.

*Note*: I have not tested reactions with mixtures of cargo. I expect a tiered response, where Meta Alloys overrides no cargo, but this is overriden by the Thargoid cargo reaction, which is likewise overriden by the Guardian reaction.

We also know that Thargoids have different reactions to cargo floating around the place.

Thargoid Interaction with uninteresting cargo.

This is fairly simple. The Thargoid ship will just scan the cargo and move on.

Thargoid Interaction with Humanoid cargo.

Humanoid cargo includes Occupied Escape Pods, Damaged Escape Pods, Slaves, Imperial Slaves, Master Chefs, and any other "Human" cargo" (e.g "Political Prisoners" from Powerplay ships). For this sort of cargo, the Thargoid ships will scan and "scoop" up the cargo. However, dropping large volumes of this cargo will not result in another Thargoid ship arriving.

Thargoid Interaction with Meta Alloys, Links, Sensors, Probes

Thargoids will also scan and scoop up Meta Alloys and Thargoid Links/Sensors/Probes. Dropping more than five of these items will result in a second Thargoid ship being called in to assist with scooping. As before, I'm unsure if it *must* be more five of one type of item, or if it can be a mix of items.

Thargoid Interaction with Guardian Items

Thargoids will scan any jettisoned Guardian Items (orbs, relics, caskets etc.) and after completing the scan will flare red and attack the item.

Other Interactions

There are some other "reactions" you can provoke that I've mentioned (i.e evading EMP blasts, getting too close) but they're not really relevant to what I want to discuss around cargo reactions.

----

So most of this isn't really new... the meta-alloys reaction seems different to the current line of thinking which is that Thargoids will attack you for holding them. But especially with that change, I think there's a lot we can start to derive from these reactions... to the point where we might be able to understand their motives (which, in my opinion, aren't territorial or necessarily based on any previous aggression from us... Aegis may even be completely inconsequential to their motives).

For ease of discussion, I'm only going to talk about cargo types of mentioned above; i.e any sort of cargo that, in one form or another, will elicit some response from a Thargoid. Anything else we'll just assume they aren't interested.

Thinking about how they react to floating cargo.

This is a pretty tidy place to start. There's four categories of interactions that cargo falls into
- Won't scoop; Thargoid Resin/Tech/Biological, Thargoid <variant> Tissue Samples
- Will scoop; Humanoids
- Will scoop and will call in help to scoop; Meta Alloys and Thargoid Links/Sensors/Probes, Thargoid Hearts
- Will destroy; Guardian items

This has a sense of logic to it if you think about it a bit, and extrapolate some ideas.
- The items listed as "Won't Scoop" are essentially Thargoid (Ship) "Body Parts"; junk, scrap. It's unlikely a Thargoid *should* be interested in that cargo at all.
- Humanoids are something interesting, so the Thargoids scoop them, but they don't care enough to get their buddies in for them. It feels somewhat unnatural, almost as if it's just a convenience thing.
- Meanwhile Meta-Alloys and Links/Probe/Sensors warrant bringing in a buddy to help grab them. The Links/Sensors/Probes have a logic to them... they're active pieces of tech which transmit signals. We know they work in conjunction to seemingly "activate" the Thargoid Structures. What doesn't have a logic is why Thargoids are now actively recovering them. We also know Thargoids have an interest in meta alloys by-extension through their interactions "sucking" something (energy? Energised meta-alloys?) from Barnacles, our source of meta alloys.
- And lastly, Guardian items. This is possibly the most interesting reaction. We know placing guardian items in a Thargoid structure results in a violent reaction so it makes some sense that a Thargoid vessel reacts equally violently to the cargo. However, this is still a fairly extreme reaction. Generally, if something (person, cat, dog, whatever) see something that reminds you of an old enemy, or something that symbolising something which hurt you in the past, the reaction is generally not to immediately destroy that thing. The sort of things that trigger that kind of reaction are things or events which are deliberately provocative, pose an immediate threat or significantly interfere with your ability to go about your business/life. I think it's fair to say that the Thargoids don't just hate the Guardians, their technology puts fear into them.

Now, combine the reactions when this cargo is in your hold.

In my opinion, this is where it gets really interesting. Seeing how thargoids react to different cargo floating around is one consideration, and seeing how they react to stuff in your hold is a separate thing... but when you consider them both in conjunction you start to get much deeper understanding. Throwing it into a table...

Reaction\ScoopingWon't scoopWill scoopWill scoop
+get help
Destroy
No InterestHumanoids
Meta AlloysMeta Alloys
Thargoid Cargo
(Hostile)
Resin/Tech/Bio/
Tissues
HeartLink/Sensor/Probe
Guardian Cargo
(Hostile)
All Guardian Items


It doesn't add much info, but it helps visualise reactions against their interest in scooping the cargo. Specifically, it kinda puts up the case that Thargoids really aren't that interested in humanoids, though they pick them up for a reason, which may be a secondary or even tertiary concern. Basically, there's five categories of what I'll coin "Interest" by the Thargoids in an item.

- Humanoids: They don't care if you have them... but if they happen to be "floating around" they'll grab them. The "lack of care" is also indicative because we aren't attacked on sight.
- Meta-Alloys: They want them really badly (see next para about their noises)... but won't fight you for them. The behaviour is almost like that of a beggar... they might want your money and ask you for it, but they (usually) won't punch you in the street for it. There's almost a sense of desparation to it.
- Resin/tech/bio/tissues/heart: They are concerned if you possess it, and are willing to fight you for it if you don't abandon it. However, they have no interest in collecting or keeping it, their only interest is in you not possessing it.
- Links/Sensors/Probes: These are valuable to Thargoids, and they're willing to fight you for it. Like the Tissue Samples etc. though, it's muted aggression, thus they don't flare up red initially. It's almost like an appeal to your senses... combined with the fact they make the same sort of "cautionary" noise when you first enter an NHSS when they detect any Thargoid cargo on board, it's almost as if they're saying "Do the right thing, don't make me hurt you".
- Guardian tech: This reaction is just outright aggression, possibly from significant fear or legitimate concern for safety. The fact they flare up red when they detect guardian cargo on board is almost suggesting a "This is going to end in destruction; whether it's you or the cargo".

Thargoid Noises

Just wanted to briefly go over the noises Thargoids make in response to the different cargoes also. This bit is applying somewhat "human" emotion to the noises which is fraught, but there's an element of consistency when you consider other contexts for the noises.

The "No interesting cargo" sound is kind of bored, disappointed or just uninterested. This is reinforced by the fact the Thargoid moves on so quickly. Ultimately, you're not of interest and have nothing to offer the Thargoid.

When you have Thargoid cargo on board, it's really important to note the noise is the same as the one when you first enter an NHSS, before the Thargoid approaches to scan you. Now, I don't know about you, but when I unexpectedly hear a ship jump in to a USS or a planets surface or what not, my first instinct is a defensive "Who's that? What're you doing here?" and I'm cautious until I work out if it's a cop, a pirate, or something else. I believe the Thargoid's noise when you jump into the NHSS is one of caution, "Halt, who goes there" if you will. This is why I think their reaction to Thargoid cargo on board your ship is one of "muted caution", not forcing a hostile resolution, but equally telling you you're in the wrong and giving an opportunity to resolve it.

Meanwhile, the Guardian Cargo sound is similar to the sound a Thargoid makes when initiating combat (sometimes) or when you provoke it by getting it too close. Guardian cargo is clearly invokes a provocative, negative reaction from Thargoids. Why this is the case is best left for the Guardian's thread, but nonetheless, it's very obviously one of aggression and inciting conflict.

Lastly, the Meta Alloy reaction sound is, in my opinion, the most interesting. While I can't find anything where the same reaction is used, I find it has similarities between when a hostile Thargoid destroys an aggressor, and when a Thargoid dies. In the case of destroying an aggressor, it's a form of elation or celebration, while the death is, well, death. In that regard, I can't help but think like it's a "desperate happiness", like the Thargoids don't just want Meta Alloys, they *need* Meta Alloys, but they're not prepared to trample anything in their path to take them.

So what's the point of all this?
So, I'm not part of the "conspiracy theory" camp. It's all too tropey for Aegis to be secretly causing all the Thargoid attacks, or attacking their own stations with Thargoid weaponry to "frame" the Thargoids. But they are unknowingly provoking the Thargoids one way or another. We know Aegis and almost every superpower has been in the game of harvesting meta-alloys, and I'd suggest the Thargoids *need* them. But casual observation's shown the only things Thargoids will aggress for are Guardian items or Thargoid items. We also know Aegis has collected some of them for the development of AX weapons, so there's a reason enough for Thargoids to attack.

We also know some mega-ship logs refer to bringing "things" on board which possibly provoke Thargoid attacks; this could either be Guardian *or* Thargoid technology given their reactions.

But it doesn't really explain the escalation. It's entirely possible that the Thargoids are getting desperate enough for Meta-Alloys to start launching large-scale attacks for them... but there's also no evidence they'd do that. Either way, this hopefully sheds some more light on potential Thargoid motivations.
Great work again.
 
So the tharg seems to be "longing" for Meta Alloys?
Like a dog for a treat?
Do they eat that stuff?
Or do they "mate" with the originators of the MA?
According to Ram Tah, the Meta Alloys are an essential ingredient in the creation of Thargoid ships and technology. With that tech being biomechanical, it seems likely the MA's could be directly used for growth, repair and quite possibly what could constitute reproduction. That could mean what the ships are doing with Meta-Allos is analagous to both eating them and mating with the originators.
 
According to Ram Tah, the Meta Alloys are an essential ingredient in the creation of Thargoid ships and technology. With that tech being biomechanical, it seems likely the MA's could be directly used for growth, repair and quite possibly what could constitute reproduction. That could mean what the ships are doing with Meta-Allos is analagous to both eating them and mating with the originators.
So interestingly, it raises a question for me, once again, why does the Thargoid Sensor point to Merope, and the Thargoid Probe point to Merope 5C? There was speculation that they pointed to Merope as they were "searching" for the Barnacles, and Merope was a convenient center. But now we know that the Thargoids themselves "seed" them on the planets. So they already knew the barnacles were there. So what's the pointing mean?
 
So interestingly, it raises a question for me, once again, why does the Thargoid Sensor point to Merope, and the Thargoid Probe point to Merope 5C? There was speculation that they pointed to Merope as they were "searching" for the Barnacles, and Merope was a convenient center. But now we know that the Thargoids themselves "seed" them on the planets. So they already knew the barnacles were there. So what's the pointing mean?
Out of rep. It's a very good question.
 
Excellent work, Jmanis!

So interestingly, it raises a question for me, once again, why does the Thargoid Sensor point to Merope, and the Thargoid Probe point to Merope 5C? There was speculation that they pointed to Merope as they were "searching" for the Barnacles, and Merope was a convenient center. But now we know that the Thargoids themselves "seed" them on the planets. So they already knew the barnacles were there. So what's the pointing mean?
My personal theory is that the constructs, after wiping out the guardians, would also determine the Thargoids as an even worse threat to the universe and went after them to extinguish them as well.

So somewhere there is a war raging and even the first gen of Guardian weapons handily spanked the Thargoids into retreat. Imagine the casualties in a Construct vs. Thargoid war.

This might suggest the original "seed" generations of Thargoids were wiped out over the past hundreds of years. What we're seeing now is a whole new generation of Thargoids searching for precious meta-alloys to continue the losing battle/survive and out scouring for any past seeded planets to continue/exist. It is also supported by how they are passive to humans as they simply have a job to do- harvest MA's and search for long-lost, forgotten seeded systems.
 
Thargoids are certainly interested in samples - I often get in a tug-of-war with them when retrieving samples as they try to tractor them back.
Just wanted to verify, they do scoop tissue samples now too. Got one more thing to try with them...

Yup.. seems like you can now bait in additional Thargoids with Tissue samples now too.

[video=youtube_share;Su3rwLFmIS0]https://youtu.be/Su3rwLFmIS0[/video]
 
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So interestingly, it raises a question for me, once again, why does the Thargoid Sensor point to Merope, and the Thargoid Probe point to Merope 5C? There was speculation that they pointed to Merope as they were "searching" for the Barnacles, and Merope was a convenient center. But now we know that the Thargoids themselves "seed" them on the planets. So they already knew the barnacles were there. So what's the pointing mean?
Maybe Merope is the epicentre of the seeding in this area and also it might hold some special significance for the whole zone which we are not aware of.
 
Last updated 2nd August 2018



Thargoid Noises



Lastly, the Meta Alloy reaction sound is, in my opinion, the most interesting. While I can't find anything where the same reaction is used, I find it has similarities between when a hostile Thargoid destroys an aggressor, and when a Thargoid dies. In the case of destroying an aggressor, it's a form of elation or celebration, while the death is, well, death. In that regard, I can't help but think like it's a "desperate happiness", like the Thargoids don't just want Meta Alloys, they *need* Meta Alloys, but they're not prepared to trample anything in their path to take them.


Really great work done here Jmanis, i think there is very much something to all this behaviour.

On the subject of meta alloy noises, to me it seems like a drug to the thargoids, the sound they make like you say is a cross between pleasure and impending doom, something like a real drug addict, they crave the product so much but they know it will eventually kill them over a long period yet they take it anyway for the pleasure.

Perhaps thats exactly what it is, a drug or a dependency, this could have been caused by the original Micoid attack long ago.

Also it seems ive already given you rep recently, have some virtual rep +1
 
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