PvP "That's now how Seekers work!" CMDR Rammius007 vs. FalterXV89


Two hull tank pilots with each having a class 1 Seeker mount and no "anti-missile defense."
Guess which pilot loses?

I'll give you a hint, it's the guy who thinks that a scramble laser and seeker rack hard counter a hull tank.

GG's to all CMDRs involved.
Fly safe out there!
 
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Thx for posting Falter! But video proves little, but that scramble laser + seeker DBS is not killing machine:) I was using similar loadaut but with 2xsr plasmas and was working good vs other small ships.Yesterday i had fight in DBS with 3 rails and seeker vs hulltanking FGS, i was amazed how little module damage i made, much harder hitting weapons and several seeker hits, and at the end of fight weapons were at 70%, too bad that for small ships seekers are much bigger threat, not mentioning packhounds , IMO FD should decrease reload time for ecm and maybe allow auto mode for it, new "laser" PD would be nice too, greater efficiency for wep cap drain maybe? Any thoughts?
 
Thx for posting Falter! But video proves little, but that scramble laser + seeker DBS is not killing machine:) I was using similar loadaut but with 2xsr plasmas and was working good vs other small ships.Yesterday i had fight in DBS with 3 rails and seeker vs hulltanking FGS, i was amazed how little module damage i made, much harder hitting weapons and several seeker hits, and at the end of fight weapons were at 70%, too bad that for small ships seekers are much bigger threat, not mentioning packhounds , IMO FD should decrease reload time for ecm and maybe allow auto mode for it, new "laser" PD would be nice too, greater efficiency for wep cap drain maybe? Any thoughts?
You're welcome. And I would agree, and I would say it is because you've built it VERY poorly. I would throw out to you: "Why not ask me how to properly build your DBS and take some lessons on plasma evasion?" You were primarily killed by my ability to land plasma on you far too regularly. And you let yourself get caught trying to get behind me which means you were doing exactly what I wanted you to do when flying at me.

I was just "playing with my food."

As for the ECM comment..well, if I wasn't so vehemently mistreated for my recommendation for ECM change on the Elite balance server - then maybe you'd know what my recommended change to ECM was.

But, I also don't think ECM necessarily needs a change either.
It's like chaff - if you want to run a hard counter missile setup like someone would to a hard counter gimbal setup - then run double ECM with a heat sink. It's that easy.
(Also, I'm going to scoff a bit at that packhound comment.) They're less deadly than seekers are and that's a fact. In fact, they're much easier to hard counter and ignore because of their longer arm time and much lower yield.
32 for a full salvo vs. 40 for one seeker.

Point being; this proves quite a lot and actually helps to cement the arguments I had made regarding missiles to you and Rinzler here:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/falterxv89-vs-r-j-mcready-scraping-the-rust-off-ed.481415/

If you want instruction on how to more better build and fly your ships, just ask next time instead of contradicting yourself and ruining your credibility.
Fly safe and GGEZ.

:)
 

The Replicated Man

T
Thx for posting Falter! But video proves little, but that scramble laser + seeker DBS is not killing machine:) I was using similar loadaut but with 2xsr plasmas and was working good vs other small ships.Yesterday i had fight in DBS with 3 rails and seeker vs hulltanking FGS, i was amazed how little module damage i made, much harder hitting weapons and several seeker hits, and at the end of fight weapons were at 70%, too bad that for small ships seekers are much bigger threat, not mentioning packhounds , IMO FD should decrease reload time for ecm and maybe allow auto mode for it, new "laser" PD would be nice too, greater efficiency for wep cap drain maybe? Any thoughts?
IMO it's a no contest between a META Gunship with fighter vs a DBS, Regardless how the DBS is outfitted.
There is just no plausible scenario given the experience of both pilots where the dbs comes out on top.
Raimus why would you even try to fight a gunship to begin with? Have you thought about bringing something a little larger? :)
 
Raimus why would you even try to fight a gunship to begin with? Have you thought about bringing something a little larger? :)
Next contest will be cutter vs gunship, i happily give outfitting advice to Falter:):):)
Whatever is scenario, 1 thing is certain, nice to have 2 extra small internals on small ships and DBS especially, it lacked it heavily, definitely that fight with Falter would last longer with 3d mrp, now can have it and scoop, huge buff to small ships, in practice armour resistances go up by ~10% and integrity by ~30%, not to mention ability to buff shields with guardian stuff, those are huge differences in PVP, that i m sure FD wasn't aware or care(more likely) when made changes.
But back on topic of seekers and utilities
Dev's have soft spot for all or nothing mechanics in Elite, this lead to outfitting battles when similar skilled players engage, i remember my 3 fights vs Papa Lazarou chieftain, in all he was flying shieldless gimbal multis+rails chief vs my lr PA FAS, 2 first fights i was dominated flying hybrid with single chaff, small change to 2 chaff with no shields changed outcome from something like lost with ~40% hull damage done and win with 60% hull lost in second one! So 1 chaff made like 4000 hull difference in exchange.
I wonder why ECM cant affect both seekers and gimbals, chaff could affect micro gimbal targeting too, with just difference drawbacks.
 

The Replicated Man

T
Next contest will be cutter vs gunship, i happily give outfitting advice to Falter:):):)
Whatever is scenario, 1 thing is certain, nice to have 2 extra small internals on small ships and DBS especially, it lacked it heavily, definitely that fight with Falter would last longer with 3d mrp, now can have it and scoop, huge buff to small ships, in practice armour resistances go up by ~10% and integrity by ~30%, not to mention ability to buff shields with guardian stuff, those are huge differences in PVP, that i m sure FD wasn't aware or care(more likely) when made changes.
But back on topic of seekers and utilities
Dev's have soft spot for all or nothing mechanics in Elite, this lead to outfitting battles when similar skilled players engage, i remember my 3 fights vs Papa Lazarou chieftain, in all he was flying shieldless gimbal multis+rails chief vs my lr PA FAS, 2 first fights i was dominated flying hybrid with single chaff, small change to 2 chaff with no shields changed outcome from something like lost with ~40% hull damage done and win with 60% hull lost in second one! So 1 chaff made like 4000 hull difference in exchange.
I wonder why ECM cant affect both seekers and gimbals, chaff could affect micro gimbal targeting too, with just difference drawbacks.
Yeah man, I fly a cobra and a viper quite often and the 2 class one internals help a TON.

I'd like to see this cutter vs Gunship Fight. Hopefully both of you can record!
 
Next contest will be cutter vs gunship, i happily give outfitting advice to Falter:):):)
Whatever is scenario, 1 thing is certain, nice to have 2 extra small internals on small ships and DBS especially, it lacked it heavily, definitely that fight with Falter would last longer with 3d mrp, now can have it and scoop, huge buff to small ships, in practice armour resistances go up by ~10% and integrity by ~30%, not to mention ability to buff shields with guardian stuff, those are huge differences in PVP, that i m sure FD wasn't aware or care(more likely) when made changes.
But back on topic of seekers and utilities
Dev's have soft spot for all or nothing mechanics in Elite, this lead to outfitting battles when similar skilled players engage, i remember my 3 fights vs Papa Lazarou chieftain, in all he was flying shieldless gimbal multis+rails chief vs my lr PA FAS, 2 first fights i was dominated flying hybrid with single chaff, small change to 2 chaff with no shields changed outcome from something like lost with ~40% hull damage done and win with 60% hull lost in second one! So 1 chaff made like 4000 hull difference in exchange.
I wonder why ECM cant affect both seekers and gimbals, chaff could affect micro gimbal targeting too, with just difference drawbacks.

hmmm Cutter versus Gunship? nah I'd bring my 'Vette to fight a big. Besides, chances are you wouldn't want to die in your Cutter - what's the point if you're not going to want to take a rebuy in that thing?

3D MRP on the DBS is dependent on the total hull you have on your ship - also I didn't shoot your DBS' guns out..are you confused? Cuz, the vid shows that I just plasma you to death and don't kill your guns.
Wait, wait, wait. Are you saying you lost a 1v1 fight to Papa Lazarou, AKA: Archon Fury?

Oh man, I can't wait until I post my video of me fighting his Chief. Sounds to me like you had a hard time against him. Papa Lazarou had such a hard time with me in 1v1 he disrespected our to the death fight and fled, and tried to gank me with more players and NPCs later on as a revenge gank.

Teaching me how to outfit? Now that's a REALLY good joke. Aren't you the one who just got his collective aft handed to him? I'm not sure you can even speak to anything regarding outfitting to anyone at this point. That's one of the reasons I linked the previous forum thread where you were babbling on AT me as if you knew / know stuff.
 
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hmmm Cutter versus Gunship? nah I'd bring my 'Vette to fight a big. Besides, chances are you wouldn't want to die in your Cutter - what's the point if you're not going to want to take a rebuy in that thing?

3D MRP on the DBS is dependent on the total hull you have on your ship - also I didn't shoot your DBS' guns out..are you confused? Cuz, the vid shows that I just plasma you to death and don't kill your guns.
Wait, wait, wait. Are you saying you lost a 1v1 fight to Papa Lazarou, AKA: Archon Fury?

Oh man, I can't wait until I post my video of me fighting his Chief. Sounds to me like you had a hard time against him. Papa Lazarou had such a hard time with me in 1v1 he disrespected our to the death fight and fled, and tried to gank me with more players and NPCs later on as a revenge gank.

Teaching me how to outfit? Now that's a REALLY good joke. Aren't you the one who just got his collective aft handed to him? I'm not sure you can even speak to anything regarding outfitting to anyone at this point. That's one of the reasons I linked the previous forum thread were you were babbling on AT me as if you knew / know stuff.
The corvette will be eaten :)
 
Yeah man, I fly a cobra and a viper quite often and the 2 class one internals help a TON.

I'd like to see this cutter vs Gunship Fight. Hopefully both of you can record!
I doubt its even possible to create medium vs big fight that would be more one sided than this one, it was only reason for suggestion and sure i would agree to fight to the death:)
But its in same category as DBS vs gunship+SLF in medium vs small, but truth is my flying was poor in this fight, as Falter mentioned i swallowed too many plasma volleys but every fight in DBS with no mrp vs seeker/packhounds carrying opponent is short one.
Few weeks ago while UM in DBS with 2 point defences there was some weird connection bug, and my wingamte in vette with dual seekers fired about 10 of them at me, thinking i m enemy NPC, and sorry guys, i still get hit by those seekers, not every one of course but even sacrificing 2 utilities for defence i wasn't immune, and if somebody say bring double ECM, well ECM is manually operated, its not that easy to toggle fire group, and use ECM in fast paced combat, manual mode just wasn't designed to be effective at g5 engineered dirty drives combats, you get hit some of the time, IMO both seekers and torps need buff to damage, and in case of torps nerf to reverberating cascade, but also buff ECM and maybe add new PD...
And there is one more aspect, if rapid fire packhounds are best DPS not fixed c2 hardpoint that is balanced by reduced total damage, then synthesis here is grind to win.
 
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The Replicated Man

T
I doubt its even possible to create medium vs big fight that would be more one sided than this one, it was only reason for suggestion and sure i would agree to fight to the death:)
But its in same category as DBS vs gunship+SLF in medium vs small, but truth is my flying was poor in this fight, as Falter mentioned i swallowed too many plasma volleys but every fight in DBS with no mrp vs seeker/packhounds carrying opponent is short one.
Few weeks ago while UM in DBS with 2 point defences there was some weird connection bug, and my wingamte in vette with dual seekers fired about 10 of them at me, thinking i m enemy NPC, and sorry guys, i still get hit by those seekers, not every one of course but even sacrificing 2 utilities for defence i wasn't immune, and if somebody say bring double ECM, well ECM is manually operated, its not that easy to toggle fire group, and use ECM in fast paced combat, manual mode just wasn't designed to be effective at g5 engineered dirty drives combats, you get hit some of the time, IMO both seekers and torps need buff to damage, and in case of torps nerf to reverberating cascade, but also buff ECM and maybe add new PD...
Yeah seekers OP man.
 
I doubt its even possible to create medium vs big fight that would be more one sided than this one, it was only reason for suggestion and sure i would agree to fight to the death:)
But its in same category as DBS vs gunship+SLF in medium vs small, but truth is my flying was poor in this fight, as Falter mentioned i swallowed too many plasma volleys but every fight in DBS with no mrp vs seeker/packhounds carrying opponent is short one.
Few weeks ago while UM in DBS with 2 point defences there was some weird connection bug, and my wingamte in vette with dual seekers fired about 10 of them at me, thinking i m enemy NPC, and sorry guys, i still get hit by those seekers, not every one of course but even sacrificing 2 utilities for defence i wasn't immune, and if somebody say bring double ECM, well ECM is manually operated, its not that easy to toggle fire group, and use ECM in fast paced combat, manual mode just wasn't designed to be effective at g5 engineered dirty drives combats, you get hit some of the time, IMO both seekers and torps need buff to damage, and in case of torps nerf to reverberating cascade, but also buff ECM and maybe add new PD...
And there is one more aspect, if rapid fire packhounds are best DPS not fixed c2 hardpoint that is balanced by reduced total damage, then synthesis here is grind to win.

Well, if your desire is to "rock, paper, scissors" me in your Cutter - then I will just take my 'Vette.
After all, you asked me for this 1v1 with your DBS when I saved you from a ROA Krait and you were begging for my assistance.
(Remember how you tried to change the story on the prior thread? I do.)

Plus, I've taken on your Vette in my FGS before back when I used to also patrol Rhea.
So, yeah....Railgun Vette versus your (probably) "ALL THE PACKHOUNDS," Cutter.
Sounds about fair for a fight you challenge me to.



The challenged party does get to set the terms. :love: Prepare for a rebuy! 💀 Let's hope you're not as skittish as you were with your DBS. 😉https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/74163781.jpg
 

The Replicated Man

T
I doubt its even possible to create medium vs big fight that would be more one sided than this one, it was only reason for suggestion and sure i would agree to fight to the death:)
But its in same category as DBS vs gunship+SLF in medium vs small, but truth is my flying was poor in this fight, as Falter mentioned i swallowed too many plasma volleys but every fight in DBS with no mrp vs seeker/packhounds carrying opponent is short one.
Few weeks ago while UM in DBS with 2 point defences there was some weird connection bug, and my wingamte in vette with dual seekers fired about 10 of them at me, thinking i m enemy NPC, and sorry guys, i still get hit by those seekers, not every one of course but even sacrificing 2 utilities for defence i wasn't immune, and if somebody say bring double ECM, well ECM is manually operated, its not that easy to toggle fire group, and use ECM in fast paced combat, manual mode just wasn't designed to be effective at g5 engineered dirty drives combats, you get hit some of the time, IMO both seekers and torps need buff to damage, and in case of torps nerf to reverberating cascade, but also buff ECM and maybe add new PD...
And there is one more aspect, if rapid fire packhounds are best DPS not fixed c2 hardpoint that is balanced by reduced total damage, then synthesis here is grind to win.
Like I mentioned earlier, I am not sure why you would try and go up against a FGS and a fighter to begin with man. There is no way a DBS can beat that type of a Gunship build.

In the same way it is highly unlikely a FGS can beat a Heavy shield cutter in a 1v1.

If I were you I'd fight his Vette in your Cutter. Be sure to bring Feedback cascade and some drag to slow him down. Go for Alpha Damage and Plenty of Hitscan.

Alternatively you could go 4x medium OC Frags, 2 Large Plasma. 1 Huge MC with Corossive.

I'd just probably stick with 2 Large Plasma. 2 Medium Plasma. 1 Emissive Seeker and 1 Feedback Hammer. A nice balance of Alpha, and Utility Damage.
 
Well, if your desire is to "rock, paper, scissors" me in your Cutter - then I will just take my 'Vette.
It should be new thread.... Cutter is my latest addition, not yet fully engineered, no armour or SCB's mods, plan is to use it for power play KILLING of other ships, so 1 utility reserved for fast scan wake scanner and 1 medium hardpoint for either groms or pulse disruptor, guardian FSD is non negotiable too. Current loadaut is c4 pulse, cascade railgun, mentioned scramble specrum pulse disruptor all LR, 2xc3's oc and eff PA and 2 gimbal frags with corrosive and drag, but imho any cutter build is counter build to Gunship or any slower medium in general, thx to cutter speed alone. I have 4 large SCB's and large prism shield, but for task of chasing and solo killing ships it might be better to save weight and speed and go light armour and bi-weaves, currently i have only 480 boost, target should be 500+, any thoughts?
 
If I were you I'd fight his Vette in your Cutter. Be sure to bring Feedback cascade and some drag to slow him down. Go for Alpha Damage and Plenty of Hitscan.

Alternatively you could go 4x medium OC Frags, 2 Large Plasma. 1 Huge MC with Corossive.

I'd just probably stick with 2 Large Plasma. 2 Medium Plasma. 1 Emissive Seeker and 1 Feedback Hammer. A nice balance of Alpha, and Utility Damage.
Its rock, paper scissor big ship killer counter vette, but without ability to kill cutter:) And as wing support with only short range weapon its not of too much help, IMO new ship in future patch should include big fast combat ship. mix of cutter and vette with some drawbacks for balance.
 
It should be new thread.... Cutter is my latest addition, not yet fully engineered, no armour or SCB's mods, plan is to use it for power play KILLING of other ships, so 1 utility reserved for fast scan wake scanner and 1 medium hardpoint for either groms or pulse disruptor, guardian FSD is non negotiable too. Current loadaut is c4 pulse, cascade railgun, mentioned scramble specrum pulse disruptor all LR, 2xc3's oc and eff PA and 2 gimbal frags with corrosive and drag, but imho any cutter build is counter build to Gunship or any slower medium in general, thx to cutter speed alone. I have 4 large SCB's and large prism shield, but for task of chasing and solo killing ships it might be better to save weight and speed and go light armour and bi-weaves, currently i have only 480 boost, target should be 500+, any thoughts?

Wait - - just, WAIT did you tell me YOU would give me outfitting advice?
I'm sorry. I just...I can't contain my laughter.
Did you say a slower medium ship? The Gunship is the slowest Medium ship at 420 top speed.
But, if your strategy is being faster to run away...I'm not sure what you're hard countering.
You're still on my friend's list in game - so come at my Vette with your Cutter when you're ready with that ... whatever it is.


"Show me what passes for fury among your misbegotten kind."

I'll post the vid when I edit you either high waking in terror, or dying.
Either or will be the outcome. And, I can bet it's going to be the former. I doubt you will have the courage to stay till your rebuy given how skittish you were in your DBS.

That loadout and list of necessary gear.
I almost pity you.
Almost.

Let's have the thread take bets on if you will become like this Cutter - only with my Vette instead of FGS:
 
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Fighter’s gonna tear up most smalls before they can really threaten a PvP spec medium tbh. Even if he did manage to missile spam your guns away, you could just hang out and wait for the fighter to do its job. Crazy how much hull those things shave off over time.

I used to main a stealth DBS when I was still fairly new to PvP, and fighters were always the worst to deal with.

That, and the rare pilot who might be competent with hitscan. Not many of those over here, but when you come across them, all that being small/evasive business goes right out the window.
 
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