Powerplay That's some really impressive teamwork there in Cailli

Leadfoot

Leadfoot
Trying to get ranked back up so I can vote each week (was out exploring for 3.5 months) and was checking the listings to see who needs pamplets. Noted some of Asling's systems had a few "undermining" indicators going on in a few systems (10%, 15% here and there) but nothing huge. That was around 3 PM yesterday afternoon (US Eastern Time). Logged off, figured I'd catch up again after 7 PM.

Logged in around 7:30 PM and noted Cailli system is now 102% undermining. That's not even 6 hours to go from virtually zero percent to 102%. The empire couldn't blow up an entire planet. Why it would take dozens of star ships with more firepower than.......

Near zero-ish percent to 102% in just six hours? Color me impressed.
 

The Replicated Man

T
Certain things like this just don't add up sometimes. The way I see it it could be one of 3 things.

1. More players actually got on and helped undermine the system. Sure this could happen, not saying it's impossible. However considering at the rate at which the percentage jumped, it's enough to raise a few eyebrows.

2. The percentage update was delayed on the server end. This has known to happen before, but is less likely than the other possibilities due to most things being scripted and on time.

3. Someone decided to turn on their cheat engine in Solo and proceeded to "cheat" their way to undermining that system. We know it has happened before, and it will happen again. Unfortunately until Frontier start cracking down on these cheaters more, there is not a whole lot we can do.

My suggestion would be the following; If something like this raises a red flag, make up a ticket and ask Frontier. Perhaps they can help you. They have ways of seeing player traffic and if anything is standing out or strange I am sure they would find it.

Closing Comments:

I personally feel that since these cheats were made public, more and more people are making accusations or just wondering in general. It's dangerous ground to be on. It also makes you wonder how long you have been going up against cheaters in Elite. There are certain circumstances that could explain these scenarios, but people are really eager to jump the gun with these accusations or even thoughts in general.

Just something to keep in mind. Usually there is an explanation other than cheating.
 
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SteveWithaD

SteveWithaD
A wing of 4 can undermine a 15k merit system in a few hours, so your window isn't all that crazy, also the merits could have been done early in the cycle and were being held and just turned in while you were away.
 
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Leadfoot

Leadfoot
Replicant said:
Certain things like this just don't add up sometimes. The way I see it it could be one of 3 things.

1. More players actually got on and helped undermine the system. Sure this could happen, not saying it's impossible. However considering at the rate at which the percentage jumped, it's enough to raise a few eyebrows.

2. The percentage update was delayed on the server end. This has known to happen before, but is less likely than the other possibilities due to most things being scripted and on time.

3. Someone decided to turn on their cheat engine in Solo and proceeded to "cheat" their way to undermining that system. We know it has happened before, and it will happen again. Unfortunately until Frontier start cracking down on these cheaters more, there is not a whole lot we can do.

Closing Comments:

I personally feel that since these cheats were made public, more and more people are making accusations or just wondering in general. It's dangerous ground to be on. It also makes you wonder how long you have been going up against cheaters in Elite. There are certain circumstances that could explain these scenarios, but people are really eager to jump the gun with these accusations or even thoughts in general.

Just something to keep in mind. Usually there is an explanation other than cheating.
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Agreed - probably either 1 or 3. I didn't want to come out and say "bots is happening" here. It certainly looks like someone "tested the waters" on two or three other systems (only going up to 10 or 15 percent and then quitting), then really let loose on Cailli, but it's also possible #1 happened. Noted that they stopped after hitting 102% and didn't bother trying to do the same with other systems.

Then again, if this had been someone with a bot, they'd have been doing this to one system after another just to harass. Or maybe realized that it might not be a good idea to blatantly advertise the use of a bot in dozens of systems.

SteveWithaD said:
A wing of 4 can undermine a 15k merit system in a few hours, so your window isn't all that crazy, also the merits could have been done early in the cycle and were being held and just turned in while you were away.
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Agreed. Looks like once I mentioned it here, wings on other platforms really ramped up the effort to win it back (I can't see anyone here in this system at the moment, so I have to assume they're either in solo or on PS4/XBONE). I checked both before and after dropping my materials off once I landed and it went from 96% to 102% in those few seconds so there's other players working on this.
 

SteveWithaD

SteveWithaD
you likely won't see them, undermining is done in the nav beacon, so if you don't venture in there you won't see them, and other than one or two powers, it's done in open by most people that take it seriously. You seem to not know that undermining merits are not instant, they are awarded as a voucher, like a bounty voucher, you then must carry it off to a control system to turn in and get merits before it shows on the Gal Pow, so what usually happens is 4 people will work a system until they have all the merits accounted for and then move on to the next target, this will account for the sudden rise in percents.
 
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Leadfoot

Leadfoot
SteveWithaD said:
you likely won't see them, undermining is done in the nav beacon, so if you don't venture in there you won't see them, and other than one or two powers, it's done in open by most people that take it seriously. You seem to not know that undermining merits are not instant, they are awarded as a voucher, like a bounty voucher, you then must carry it off to a control system to turn in and get merits before it shows on the Gal Pow, so what usually happens is 4 people will work a system until they have all the merits accounted for and then move on to the next target, this will account for the sudden rise in percents.
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You're right. I did not know about how to undermine because I've never done that part of PP before. I was actually talking about other members of MY power (not seeing them). Your explanation also makes sense for the odd "here and there" undermines that I saw. Odd, though, that they would do 10% here and 15%, then really ramp it up to 102% on one system, then stop cold. I'd think that if you really wanted to do that kind of damage, just keep doing that in outlying systems, one after the other, just to keep the target power scrambling to keep the system. At least, that's how I'd do it if I were them.

Anyway, thanks for the info. I'm 67. I learn something new every day.
 

bigity

bigity
This is fairly common. Sniping has been a UM tactic since PP was figured out.

You hold merits as late as possible to the foe can't react.

It's not uncommon to have people flying around with 10k+ merits on a busy cycle.

Organized groups count merits so few are wasted. No difference between a system 100% undermined or 300% - except wasted merits.


Also - just undermining a system doesn't cause it to be lost, even if it is not cancelled out. A whole host of things have to happen to cause the loss of a system, and it can get pretty complicated to target a specific one.
 
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Leadfoot

Leadfoot
bigity said:
This is fairly common. Sniping has been a UM tactic since PP was figured out.
You hold merits as late as possible to the foe can't react.
It's not uncommon to have people flying around with 10k+ merits on a busy cycle.
Organized groups count merits so few are wasted. No difference between a system 100% undermined or 300% - except wasted merits.
Also - just undermining a system doesn't cause it to be lost, even if it is not cancelled out. A whole host of things have to happen to cause the loss of a system, and it can get pretty complicated to target a specific one.
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Ah, ok, I think I get it now. Someone got a bunch of people in the right place to do whatever was needed to undermine, all on one day and while no one was watching that particular system since others were being fortified.

I would assume that if it had rolled over tomorrow morning with "undermining" being the winning number something like turmoil and strife in the system's population, gnashing of teeth taking place, rending of robes, etc. I've never seen what happened something like that happened, so I'm guessing we'd have to do something to calm the population down, etc, bring them candy, etc.

Candy - why bring them pamphlets when chocolate would be so much better? Or beer? Or both? Ever see a riot take place when the blood sugar rises then drops like a rock while they're all drunk?

I need to start my own faction...........
 

bigity

bigity
Leadfoot said:
Ah, ok, I think I get it now. Someone got a bunch of people in the right place to do whatever was needed to undermine, all on one day and while no one was watching that particular system since others were being fortified.

I would assume that if it had rolled over tomorrow morning with "undermining" being the winning number something like turmoil and strife in the system's population, gnashing of teeth taking place, rending of robes, etc. I've never seen what happened something like that happened, so I'm guessing we'd have to do something to calm the population down, etc, bring them candy, etc.

Candy - why bring them pamphlets when chocolate would be so much better? Or beer? Or both? Ever see a riot take place when the blood sugar rises then drops like a rock while they're all drunk?

I need to start my own faction...........
Click to expand...

That's not really how it works at all. An undermined system is no big deal, it doesn't affect the system, but can affect the power if they end up in turmoil (because their CC costs are more than the CC income - which undermining does affect).

Either way, the system itself isn't affected. Worst case scenario is if another week with negative CC balance goes by, they might lose the system from the power that controls it (assuming alot of other factors that determine which system is lost).
 

Leadfoot

Leadfoot
bigity said:
That's not really how it works at all. An undermined system is no big deal, it doesn't affect the system, but can affect the power if they end up in turmoil (because their CC costs are more than the CC income - which undermining does affect).

Either way, the system itself isn't affected. Worst case scenario is if another week with negative CC balance goes by, they might lose the system from the power that controls it (assuming alot of other factors that determine which system is lost).
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I know. I was trying to be funny. :) I still think the population could be better convinced to stay with your power if you gave them more beer, chocolate, or both (and not necessarily in that order). Pamphlets are nice but beer / chocolate tastes better.

Logged in this morning and saw lots of happy news for my power. I WAS surprised to see Pranav Antal with lots of turmoil in there. It shows about 9 or 10 systems in turmoil. That's a lot of turmoil. Now, imagine this Twinkie represents the normal amount of turmoil in a system.
 

bigity

bigity
Leadfoot said:
I know. I was trying to be funny. :) I still think the population could be better convinced to stay with your power if you gave them more beer, chocolate, or both (and not necessarily in that order). Pamphlets are nice but beer / chocolate tastes better.

Logged in this morning and saw lots of happy news for my power. I WAS surprised to see Pranav Antal with lots of turmoil in there. It shows about 9 or 10 systems in turmoil. That's a lot of turmoil. Now, imagine this Twinkie represents the normal amount of turmoil in a system.
Click to expand...

Well we Kumo prefer to haul the dissidents off to Harma for introduction to the Kumo Burger processors.
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
bigity said:
Mostly pork fries. Long pork fries.....cause they are long..
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I just looked up what pork fries were- whoah!

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I know this is off topic, but it needs to be seen.
 

Cori

Cori
....

"Long pork" is what cannibals eat. So called because the taste is, apparently, similar to real pork.
 
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