The Combat Logging Compromise. (FDEV Please Read.)

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Swizzy o7o7

Swizzy o7o7
Combat logging (Via Task-kill) has existed in Elite, without punishment since launch.

If you do not know what combat logging is, or understand its implications on the game, and community, please see Rinzler o7o7o7's post(s) regarding it (at the bottom of this post.)

Now, since there is no punishment for it, and combat logging (via menu timeout) is not against current TOS, I wish to propose a compromise, to find a solution that doesn't involve cheating.

Reset the timer upon taking ANY damage in (OPEN MODE ONLY. OR BY PLAYER'S) Allow SOLO, and PRIVATE GROUP to remain with the current 15 second timer.

This will mean that people will still be allowed to 15 second menu log on the AI.

What will this accomplish?
Well, Open Mode is for PvP, whether you like it, or not. It contains, and is not limited to:

-PvP piracy
-Powerplay undermining defense/attacks
-Inter-faction warfare
-Player bounty hunting
-Hunting newbie-killers
-Blockades
-System protection
-(Soon Open Powerplay)

And with the current mechanics, anyone is able to combat log via the menu, without sanction.


So, what does combat logging result in, why does it affect me?

Increased ganking.

When PvP player's can not participate in any of these structured, and role-playing activities without the almost guaranteed chance that the player will combat log, by the timer, or by task-killing, it results in increased ganking by the PvP community. Ganking, or indiscriminate killing with no Role Play, or pre-communication.
(Roleplaying like our Overlord, Zarek Null does.)

If you don't believe me, why are ganker's at an all time high?
And why has this article been published for over 1,300 explorer gank's during DW2?
If people could have participated in defense, and attack of DW2, I'm sure there would have been hardly any ganks, but rather healthy, non-toxic PvP gameplay.

https://www.alpha-orbital.com/news/distant-world-massacres-a-tale-of-explosions-and-grief

The compromise is leaving menu-logging allowed for people in PG, or SOLO MODE(S). Where for PG, PvP is barely a relevant, or allowed gameplay style.
If you want increased toxicity between both PvP, and PvEr's, continue doing nothing, FDEV.

And if nothing changes, well; I look forward to helping reach 10,000 dead CMDR's by the end of this event. We're over 10% already.

We will stop the attacks if Menu Logging is finally put to an end.


To add: Combat logging by Task killing can not be solved directly, however it can be, indirectly.
By actually warning, and banning those that commit the TOS break.

Q) How would you differentiate the difference between a crash, and those that clog?
A) By actually reviewing video evidence, and evaluating logs, and trends with the clog; eg; 'crashing' when shields drop regularly e.t.c.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Part 1)
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...vestigation_into_frontiers_actions_on_combat/

(Part 2)
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...o-Frontier-s-Actions-on-Combat-Logging-Part-2

If you wish to view the toxicity of PvE player's towards ganker's; join https://discord.gg/U9aPuPP.
 

xxThe_Dice_manxx

xxThe_Dice_manxx
So I might not get exactly what you are trying to say here but let's see.

You are saying you will gank players in a private pve server if fdev do not issue bans to combat loggers?

Good luck with that.

I do however agree that anyone combat logging in open should be banned from OPEN.

And PvP should stay in OPEN.
 
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Bortas

Bortas
xxThe_Dice_manxx said:
You are saying you will gank players in a private pve server if fdev do not issue bans to combat loggers?
Click to expand...

Where did he say that? What he said is, that many players who would like to do PvP piracy get so frustrated by combat loggers, they just kill their victims instead. I can't pirate a combat logger, before he logs, but I can usually kill them, if I don't waste time communicating with them... that's basically what he said. And it's a problem for both sides... Pirates can't pirate and traders get murdered instead of robbed. Without combat logging, both would benefit... pirates could pirate, and traders would survice with a few tons of cargo less in their holds.

Menu-loggers are easy to kill with full frag-loadouts, because they are sitting ducks, so many former pirates switched to play CL-police so to speak ;) Unfortunately it's futile because the menu loggers usually don't learn anything from the experience.
 
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xxThe_Dice_manxx

xxThe_Dice_manxx
Bortas said:
Where did he say that? What he said is, that many players who would like to do PvP piracy get so frustrated by combat loggers, they just kill their victims instead. I can't pirate a combat logger, before he logs, but I can usually kill them, if I don't waste time communicating with them... that's basically what he said. And it's a problem for both sides... Pirates can't pirate and traders get murdered instead of robbed. Without combat logging, both would benefit... pirates could pirate, and traders would survice with a few tons of cargo less in their holds.

Menu-loggers are easy to kill with full frag-loadouts, because they are sitting ducks, so many former pirates switched to play CL-police so to speak ;) Unfortunately it's futile because the menu loggers usually don't learn anything from the experience.
Click to expand...

They say it right here
"And if nothing changes, well; I look forward to helping reach 10,000 dead CMDR's by the end of this event. We're over 10% already. "
 

Mic Steele

M
Open play is for PwP: Player WITH Player, which does include PvP. The world of social interactions is not limited to shooting at things. And, believe it or not, MOST people do not enjoy being targeted by sociopaths.

I hate to feed trolls, but you're wrong. I don't believe you want to see that, though. I've watched what you consider to be PvP with DW2, and it's more akin to slaughtering babies than to anything approaching a competitive, sporting act. It's certainly not civilized behavior.

You tell your targets to "Git Gud." That's a bucket load: They already ARE good, at things that are likely outside your understanding. That doesn't make them wrong. They're good at trading, at exploring, at GETTING ALONG WITH OTHERS without having to brag about how hurt people are by their actions. The childish behavior of gankers, defending their anti-social behavior--their dog-pack mentality--as somehow being good for the community, is .

Grow up. Learn how to let others live. You want targets? Be FAIR to them; ASK if they want to duel, give them the opportunity to choose a combat ship. In real life, how many cargo ships carry cannons? How many truck drivers need to pack a pistol? In civilized societies, such things are recognized as immature.

You should learn to see it, too. Be fair to yourself. Give yourSELF a chance to become something. Don't just dig a hole and whine because you can't get along with real people, or complain that nice people scorn you. We don't respect you, no matter how you justify your actions. Have you asked for volunteers to be slaughtered? Yes, it's a game; let people play their game.

You want me to "git gud" at killing? I've done that. I don't do that any more; I see the nonsense for what it is. Real solutions don't come from killing, or stealing, or destroying.

You're wrong. Get good...at something productive, or admit that you're nothing.
 

xxThe_Dice_manxx

xxThe_Dice_manxx
Swizzy o7o7 said:
No I didn't, actually. At no point do I even imply attacks against PG. Because that would break safe-spaces, and I'd never do that.
Click to expand...

Again maybe I'm not understanding something but isn't dw2 mostly in private groups?

And there are around 10000 taking part , you threaten to kill your part of the 10000 so that implies IMHO that you intend to or have killed PG players taking part in DW2.

Unless FDev comply with your demands.

I would edit your original statements to clarify.
 

Misty_Dark

Misty_Dark
This pure .


It is quite clear when you get to the point when OP threatens an action if FDev will not do something.


The these stupid logic fails all the time, to force people to stay and fight, and the more convoluted and stupid this ideas gets, it will only further drive players awat from Open, making it even less likely for these people to find new players to kill, so even more stupid ideas to force players to stay and die emergence, and even more player decide to leave open....

And if these stupid ideas are to be implemented, then the dmeand for a PvE only mode is going to echo even bigger and what would you do if that got implemented? sit their and try to gank each other? And I would expect Open PvE have a larger chance/risk to be implemented than these detrimental suggestions.
 

Siobhan

Siobhan
Crimson Kaim said:
Hey, another great suggestion that will just get ignored straight away!
Click to expand...

It's not a great suggestion any more than it's a compromise.
Basically it says that if you attempt to log out via the legal menu log, then the timer should reset until you stop taking damage (eg until dead). The ONLY way to prevent such reset and continued damage is to force disconnect... So rather than a compromise, it exacerbates the problem. This is why it could never be considered.
 

Tiili

Tiili
Siobhan said:
It's not a great suggestion any more than it's a compromise.
Basically it says that if you attempt to log out via the legal menu log, then the timer should reset until you stop taking damage (eg until dead). The ONLY way to prevent such reset and continued damage is to force disconnect... So rather than a compromise, it exacerbates the problem. This is why it could never be considered.
Click to expand...

If you don't understand why he suggests these things, please do try to pirate a bunch of players tonight.
Destroying ships is very easy, hatch breaking a FA-off spinning menu logger is impossible to do tho.

I suggest keeping a tally of task killers vs legit guys too, I've found out that around 9/10 of the people I interdict task kill as soon as we enter the same instance. It's ridiculous.
 

Siobhan

Siobhan
Tiili said:
If you don't understand why he suggests these things, please do try to pirate a bunch of players tonight.
Destroying ships is very easy, hatch breaking a FA-off spinning menu logger is impossible to do tho.

I suggest keeping a tally of task killers vs legit guys too, I've found out that around 9/10 of the people I interdict task kill as soon as we enter the same instance. It's ridiculous.
Click to expand...

None of which changes anything.
It just makes a legit logout impossible if someone wants to prevent it. If you think that will stop task killing, then you really need to revisit the issue.
 

Misty_Dark

Misty_Dark
Tiili said:
If you don't understand why he suggests these things, please do try to pirate a bunch of players tonight.
Destroying ships is very easy, hatch breaking a FA-off spinning menu logger is impossible to do tho.

I suggest keeping a tally of task killers vs legit guys too, I've found out that around 9/10 of the people I interdict task kill as soon as we enter the same instance. It's ridiculous.
Click to expand...


So you are blaming the victims because of the negative feedback we have from player-killers? So you are basically doing victim blaming instead of blaming perpetrators of this negative results, that gives your piracy gameplay few players that want to stick around and "play"...




How are players going to know you are not a ganker? They can't, as any ganker can do the same stuff you do and then without warning simply kill the victim anyway.
 

Tiili

Tiili
The point of these suggestions is not to prevent task killing, there was a separate suggestion in the OP about FD actually enforcing their TOS against such cheaters tho.

This suggestion would simply make you unable to log out while taking damage, so you would need to actually escape first to be able to log out through the menu.

With such a change in place, an interdicted trader wouldn't be able to FA-off spin and menu log to prevent losses completely, as the pirate could pop a shot every few seconds to reset the logout timer and have time for the hatch breakers to attach, preventing the trader from using cheap game mechanic oversights to perform a vanishing act in the middle of a PVP encounter.

After a change like this, people who use logging out as their primary form of defense would hopefully stay out of open mode.
 
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