The Console Is Not Your Enemy

[Old Duck]

There's lots of scuttlebutt about Frontier "dumbing down" Elite so they can make more sales on the consoles. I'm a console gamer, but I hope this isn't true. It's really not in Frontier's best interest to go down this road. I actually think, done right, the consoles can help the PC side of the game.

First, more income flowing into Frontier's budget means more longevity for the franchise. Businesses run on money, so it's in everyone's best interests for Frontier to be successful on the consoles. Hopefully the upcoming influx of income will allow Frontier to hire more developers to work on features old and new.

Second, I don't believe Frontier needs to dumb down the game to sell the game. Arena proved that to be a flawed approach. Complex games are become more and more popular on consoles. If I wanted to play "dumb" games, I wouldn't own a PS4, I would just play those games on my iPad. I'm not alone. Look at the biggest games on the PS4, for example, and you'll see many if not most of them have pretty complex gameplay elements compared to the early days of consoles.

Third, it is trivial, assuming FDev knows what they are doing, to maintain different assets for different platforms. There is no reason to reduce polygon counts or texture resolutions on the PC version for the sake of any other platform. Ironically the Xbox proved that the consoles could handle the higher polygon count pre-2.3 release. The only potential performance reason for reducing p-count might be for PSVR, but those "low res" models can easily be stored as separate assets from the hi-res variants. This is the normal practice in many fields of software design. Even the consoles themselves are heading in this direction with PS4 Pro and Scorpio.

Finally, Elite Dangerous is nothing without its community, and from what I've seen here, it would be financial suicide for Frontier to alienate its core PC gamers.

I could say more, but this post is long enough. Thoughts?

 

[c00ky1970]

Agree!

 

[Deadspin]

Explain the dumbing down of textures in the cockpits of various multi-crew ships.

When people say "Dumbing down" it's not the game mechanics they're talking about, its the visuals being reigned in so as not to stress the less powerful consoles, making the game more playable across all platforms and easier to work on as a whole for the developer since they're not breaking the game apart into 2-3 separate entities to satisfy the wants of the various groups of players.

 

[Old Duck]

Explain the dumbing down of textures in the cockpits of various multi-crew ships.

When people say "Dumbing down" it's not the game mechanics they're talking about, its the visuals being reigned in so as not to stress the less powerful consoles, making the game more playable across all platforms and easier to work on as a whole for the developer since they're not breaking the game apart into 2-3 separate entities to satisfy the wants of the various groups of players.

I hope and pray it's a bug like FDev said. Perhaps someone on the team accidentally saved over the "hi def" version of the Anaconda with a new model created specifically for PSVR. I do see why they would need to reduce polygons and lighting effects to make PSVR to work (the consoles really aren't the best platforms to drive VR), but there is no logical reason to purposefully replace the original bridge models.

 

[CMDR-AD]

Explain the dumbing down of textures in the cockpits of various multi-crew ships.

Totally guesses here, but a couple points have always come to mind on this:

1) Limits of the engine Elite is running on. I have no idea what these limits may be, but I'd guess they must exist, at some point?
2) The original system specifications sold with the Horizons product. Do they have to stay within those, as new features are added?

 

[Deadspin]

I hope and pray it's a bug like FDev said. Perhaps someone on the team accidentally saved over the "hi def" version of the Anaconda with a new model created specifically for PSVR. I do see why they would need to reduce polygons and lighting effects to make PSVR to work (the consoles really aren't the best platforms to drive VR), but there is no logical reason to purposefully replace the original bridge models.

Let us hope.

In the end I don't honestly mind. I'll never buy it for my PS4 as you can't transfer saves over and I don't think I'd like flying with a controller but I won't bash anyone who prefers it. I'd really like to see Xbox and PS4 players flying in the same galaxy as us though. I can't remember why that's not a thing and am too lazy to look it up.

- - - Updated - - -

Totally guesses here, but a couple points have always come to mind on this:

1) Limits of the engine Elite is running on. I have no idea what these limits may be, but I'd guess they must exist, at some point?
2) The original system specifications sold with the Horizons product. Do they have to stay within those, as new features are added?

1: Doubtful
2: The Anaconda existed in game with the proper textures from launch. This was not something that happened with the release of Horizons. It's a relatively new development and I believe Old Duck pointed out the possible reason why it happened.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Games have slowly been becoming more accessible since they hit their peak of complexity about 25 years ago, as their expected audience grows..

It's not necessarily a bad thing anyway.
Needlessly over complicating something makes it dull, usually. Lol

 

[Watcher]

I agree to some extent.
The extra player base and income that confers is a plus and a game being on console shouldn't mean that the game has to be simple(r).
On the other hand I wouldn't underestimate the effort needed to maintain the game operating well on multiple platforms both for continued development and ongoing maintenance, be that code, asset support or, importantly, testing.
Also how much extra income? It might be that the effort to support and advertise on other platforms actually isn't really worth it unless there is sufficient uptake. I'd hope there is, but perhaps not? FD are unlikely to share information on this.
We also can't escape that there will be some game design level compromise. The numbers of triggers issue is already one thing that springs to mind with FD not wanting to give players with 'better' controllers an advantage - this particular case isn't limited to being a console thing but there may certainly be instances where it is a specific concern.
I'd also suggest there is also a community issue. The PC and Console gaming communities while not entirely distinct or dissimilar do have their differences in attitude and expectation and that may not be easy to manage.

So yes, I cautiously agree but operating multi-platform certainly has its risks and challenges.

 

[EUS]

I'm of the opinion that any platform that utilizes a walled gardens approach to a game that professes to be (among other things) a MMO is indeed an enemy, and should never get the rights to the game.

 

[Old Duck]

I'm of the opinion that any platform that utilizes a walled gardens approach to a game that professes to be (among other things) a MMO is indeed an enemy, and should never get the rights to the game.

You're playing Elite on Linux? Cool, I can get behind that!

 

[Noctover]

I have no ill will toward consoles as long as im not the one that has to use one .

 

[Johnb09]

Agreed

 

[Sir.Tj]

I agree the console is in no way my enemy...

Dusty however....that's a different story...

And let's not turn this into a flamewar please.

 

[Rob At Work]

Why are iPad users playing dumb games?

 

[nosleepdemon]

Sure, games are becoming more complex on xbones and ps4s, but let's face it; there's a long way to go. As a console player you may not have engaged with many complex games like PC gamers have, so perhaps the difference isn't as apparent.

The issue with Elite specifically though, is that as many members of the community are only just about hanging on as it is, a continued increase in dumbing down is going to nudge them over the edge.

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

There's lots of scuttlebutt about Frontier "dumbing down" Elite so they can make more sales on the consoles. I'm a console gamer, but I hope this isn't true. It's really not in Frontier's best interest to go down this road. I actually think, done right, the consoles can help the PC side of the game.

First, more income flowing into Frontier's budget means more longevity for the franchise. Businesses run on money, so it's in everyone's best interests for Frontier to be successful on the consoles. Hopefully the upcoming influx of income will allow Frontier to hire more developers to work on features old and new.

Second, I don't believe Frontier needs to dumb down the game to sell the game. Arena proved that to be a flawed approach. Complex games are become more and more popular on consoles. If I wanted to play "dumb" games, I wouldn't own a PS4, I would just play those games on my iPad. I'm not alone. Look at the biggest games on the PS4, for example, and you'll see many if not most of them have pretty complex gameplay elements compared to the early days of consoles.

Third, it is trivial, assuming FDev knows what they are doing, to maintain different assets for different platforms. There is no reason to reduce polygon counts or texture resolutions on the PC version for the sake of any other platform. Ironically the Xbox proved that the consoles could handle the higher polygon count pre-2.3 release. The only potential performance reason for reducing p-count might be for PSVR, but those "low res" models can easily be stored as separate assets from the hi-res variants. This is the normal practice in many fields of software design. Even the consoles themselves are heading in this direction with PS4 Pro and Scorpio.

Finally, Elite Dangerous is nothing without its community, and from what I've seen here, it would be financial suicide for Frontier to alienate its core PC gamers.

I could say more, but this post is long enough. Thoughts?

HA HA HA HA!

Yes every game that is ported to Xbox or Ps4 or anything else will be dumbed down. you can lie to yourself there's no problem (there's shame BTW) in that, But the thing is that a Game pad have only 10-14 buttons, one Digital pad and 2 analogical sticks, no developer with anything that reassembles a brain would do something that is TOO COMPLEX to a setup like that, And no sane console creator (Sony and Microsoft) would accept to release a game on it's consoles that have LIMITED functions in comparison to the PC version, that's just business.

So yes Consoles dumb down every single game complexity for some extra cash and extra sells. this have been going on for so long that is hard to believe that anyone would try to defend this idea of business.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

There's lots of scuttlebutt about Frontier "dumbing down" Elite so they can make more sales on the consoles. I'm a console gamer, but I hope this isn't true. It's really not in Frontier's best interest to go down this road. I actually think, done right, the consoles can help the PC side of the game.

First, more income flowing into Frontier's budget means more longevity for the franchise. Businesses run on money, so it's in everyone's best interests for Frontier to be successful on the consoles. Hopefully the upcoming influx of income will allow Frontier to hire more developers to work on features old and new.

Second, I don't believe Frontier needs to dumb down the game to sell the game. Arena proved that to be a flawed approach. Complex games are become more and more popular on consoles. If I wanted to play "dumb" games, I wouldn't own a PS4, I would just play those games on my iPad. I'm not alone. Look at the biggest games on the PS4, for example, and you'll see many if not most of them have pretty complex gameplay elements compared to the early days of consoles.

Third, it is trivial, assuming FDev knows what they are doing, to maintain different assets for different platforms. There is no reason to reduce polygon counts or texture resolutions on the PC version for the sake of any other platform. Ironically the Xbox proved that the consoles could handle the higher polygon count pre-2.3 release. The only potential performance reason for reducing p-count might be for PSVR, but those "low res" models can easily be stored as separate assets from the hi-res variants. This is the normal practice in many fields of software design. Even the consoles themselves are heading in this direction with PS4 Pro and Scorpio.

Finally, Elite Dangerous is nothing without its community, and from what I've seen here, it would be financial suicide for Frontier to alienate its core PC gamers.

I could say more, but this post is long enough. Thoughts?

PC master race folk....... just ignore them imo. (and i say this with a fairly high end rig with all the control toys, flight seat and VR you can shake a stick at)

 

[CMDR GTR2014]

Why are iPad users playing dumb games?

Wait until console games start having to play games that will be ported both to their consoles and tablets ! LOL!

 

[Old Duck]

... As a console player you may not have engaged with many complex games like PC gamers have, so perhaps the difference isn't as apparent ...

"I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn't know how to use it." ~ Matthew Quigley

I used to be a PC gamer, back in the day. Flight sims, submarine sims, RPGs, you name it. Here, let me wipe that assumption off your chin

 

[stormyuk]

Explain the dumbing down of textures in the cockpits of various multi-crew ships.

When people say "Dumbing down" it's not the game mechanics they're talking about, its the visuals being reigned in so as not to stress the less powerful consoles, making the game more playable across all platforms and easier to work on as a whole for the developer since they're not breaking the game apart into 2-3 separate entities to satisfy the wants of the various groups of players.

FDev have already said that this simply is not the case. The console versions are above the minimum PC spec requirement.

Recently Michael Brookes posted this:

The console argument for changes in graphics don't apply - we have separate settings and render paths for the consoles, both of which are higher than our min spec PC anyway.

Michael