The Console Is Not Your Enemy
- Thread starter Old Duck
- Start date
Same. Nintendo's stuff is great and pretty unique. [up]
Games reached their peak of complexity about 25 years ago ? What utter tosh.
Lets look at a 1991 PC spec. An ultra-high-end system would be a 80486-based PC running at 25MHz with 4G of RAM and VGA graphics running at 1024x768 and would have cost US$ 4,500 in 1991 and would have been way way out of the reach of most people. So there would have been zero games written to take advantage of that level of hardware. Most people would be running a 12MHz 80286 with 2G of RAM with virtually no graphics capabilities - still a hefty US$ 1,500. CPUs are now at least x1000 quicker with at least 2x cores and graphics GPUs literally millions of times quicker. Are you seriously suggesting that today's games are no more complex ?
What world do you live in ?
If you are correct then games software must be the only genre of software that has not got more complex in the past 25 years - and I don't believe that for 1 second.
You're helping me make my original point. Many people are enjoying ED over on the Xbox, I soon (hope) will be enjoying ED on the PS4, and yet ED retains its "more complex control scheme". So by your own admission, the console is not the death of complex games on the PC.
I presume that he is talking about actual gameplay complexity, not technical complexity. You could have all the number crunching in the world and it might be a massive technical undertaking to program it all, but would it wouldn't necessarily provide any gameplay complexity.
And even then though, he's wrong. Once you step outside overhyped shovelware made for the lowest common denominator, many well-received modern games are incredibly complex. You just have to look at things like the X3 trilogy, Civilisation games or Path of Exile, all games that offer gameplay complexity far beyond any of their predecessors from 25 years ago. The whole worry with consoles is that Elite will deviate from it's attempt to build upon the original trilogy as the greatest space sim ever and instead devolve into shovelware fit only for the most clueless of individuals.
Ian Phillips
Volunteer Moderator
Please define the group you are singling out in this statement, bearing in mind my previous post about platform wars.
Do you mean the planets? Not sure if you noticed but dirt is kinda beige, and most planets are dirty rocks
FWIW. The palette change was explained a while back as the planets were adjusted to better reflect their chemical composition.
Yes, planets. And it really depends on the dirt.
Dirt could be beige, grey, yellow, dark brown, black, red.. chemical makeup does play a big part of this. I just can't help but think our planets have an overwhelmingly similar makeup, as I rarely see any non-ice planet with anything more than a streak of something other than beige.. and it's trending-towards-the-orange-side of beige.
The exact same target market as the yearly FiFA and CoD releases, which admittedly aren't necessarily console exclusive nowadays.
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By the time SC comes out, we'll have a PS7 and Xbox -2 or something.
lol you said comes out.. like.. like it's going to be an actual game someday. +1 to you sir.
As I said depends on the mission and server
Anyway , this is not ArmA forums so i will restrict this to my last post about it
Ehh... the scale isn't really a part of the conversation though. Yeah, what you can do with the game is insane which is where it's appeal comes from I'd imagine, but that doesn't change the fact that Bohemia really needs to rebuild their engine from scratch. Server is part of it but its the scripting that kills most multiplayer ARMA missions and setups. Heavy scripting brings down the server FPS which, in turn, brings down player FPS. We tested this on our own servers when trying to locate/troubleshoot the bottleneck a few years back. I too am an experienced mission curator/modder of ARMA
Eh, price isn't the only thing you look at when making this type of decision though. For example:
Things I can do on my PC:
- Buy and play games at next to nothing prices. (Gamesplanet, steam sales, gmg, etc, not available on consoles)
- Mod the ever living crap out of said games. (While present on console, it's very limited and only on a couple of games)
- Do my taxes
- Check my email with the click of one button.
- Explore the world wide web and everything included with it with relative ease.
- Watch movies
- Listen to music
- Create music and movies (from scratch, not from video game footage).
- Edit video game footage beyond simple cropping.
- Stream multiple sources without needing a capture card or external peripheral.
- And so on..
What I can do on my Playstation 4:
- Play games.
- Pay Sony's ridiculous costs for multiplayer interaction on top of my ISP bill.
- Stream to Twitch/Youtube, single source, no overlay editing.
- Share game achievements to facebook/google!
- Voice chat with friends in/out of games.
I know there's more on both sides of the aisle but I'm sure you get the general idea. I built my computer for a lot more than gaming, gaming just happens to be a happy thing I can do with it. I also only paid $900 for all of the parts initially and, over the last 7 years, have put maybe another $500 into it (GPU upgrade).
All things considered. I play Minecraft, LittleBigPlanet and Disney Infinity with my kids on the PS4 and fully intend to buy a Nintendo Switch at some point in the future. I'm not against consoles, just stupid one line arguments. Each platform has its merits..
..you also can't deny that true PC games have basically disappeared since the console became popular again with the growth of online gaming.
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verminstar
Banned
lol you said comes out.. like.. like it's going to be an actual game someday. +1 to you sir.
Ehh... the scale isn't really a part of the conversation though. Yeah, what you can do with the game is insane which is where it's appeal comes from I'd imagine, but that doesn't change the fact that Bohemia really needs to rebuild their engine from scratch. Server is part of it but its the scripting that kills most multiplayer ARMA missions and setups. Heavy scripting brings down the server FPS which, in turn, brings down player FPS. We tested this on our own servers when trying to locate/troubleshoot the bottleneck a few years back. I too am an experienced mission curator/modder of ARMA
Eh, price isn't the only thing you look at when making this type of decision though. For example:
Things I can do on my PC:
- Buy and play games at next to nothing prices. (Gamesplanet, steam sales, gmg, etc, not available on consoles)
- Mod the ever living crap out of said games. (While present on console, it's very limited and only on a couple of games)
- Do my taxes
- Check my email with the click of one button.
- Explore the world wide web and everything included with it with relative ease.
- Watch movies
- Listen to music
- Create music and movies (from scratch, not from video game footage).
- Edit video game footage beyond simple cropping.
- Stream multiple sources without needing a capture card or external peripheral.
- And so on..
What I can do on my Playstation 4:
- Play games.
- Pay Sony's ridiculous costs for multiplayer interaction on top of my ISP bill.
- Stream to Twitch/Youtube, single source, no overlay editing.
- Share game achievements to facebook/google!
- Voice chat with friends in/out of games.
I know there's more on both sides of the aisle but I'm sure you get the general idea. I built my computer for a lot more than gaming, gaming just happens to be a happy thing I can do with it. I also only paid $900 for all of the parts initially and, over the last 7 years, have put maybe another $500 into it (GPU upgrade).
All things considered. I play Minecraft, LittleBigPlanet and Disney Infinity with my kids on the PS4 and fully intend to buy a Nintendo Switch at some point in the future. I'm not against consoles, just stupid one line arguments. Each platform has its merits..
..you also can't deny that true PC games have basically disappeared since the console became popular again with the growth of online gaming.
Why can ye not access yer emails on the console? I can do it in 3 presses of the button A, same as logging into either my business or personal bank account...pay my mortgage, my rates, my daughters school fees, watch or download adult content.
I can make movies by telling cortana to start recording...no button presses at all just the power of speech bit like star trek...I use some freebie ms editor to...well edit them strangely enough. I access my entire music library through the console because it shares the same home network, and that includes my movie collection.
I can do all of that on console...and more...thats just of the top of me head ^
- - - Updated - - -
Xbox kinect...jedi battles...clear the furniture this could get messy [yesnod]
Of course, VR does it so much better but before mentioning the small matter of the 7 or 800 notes a good vr set costs, lets think about the pc needed to run it. One does not have a great deal in life...if its a choice between playing xbox and junking out in kentuckys all day and night, or paying the bills and the fact I dont grow my own food means it doesnt come free? The one I want aint the one I have...enjoy the little things and if they still doin those choccy sundaes, Ill have those with the daily colonels bargain bucket ^
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Deleted member 110222
D
Ask any gamer, any real gamer... It doesn't matter what platform you play on, for heck's sake!
Most console haters do so simply because it's the cool thing to do.
Something I'd like to ask. Are us GTX 960 users holding you 1080Ti guys back? If we are... I'm not sorry, lol. XD
Most console haters do so simply because it's the cool thing to do.
Something I'd like to ask. Are us GTX 960 users holding you 1080Ti guys back? If we are... I'm not sorry, lol. XD
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It's not "dumbing down" so much as graphical parity that most games try to achieve. This can be frustrating when you're a high end PC gamer. A lot of people complained that Ghost Recon Wildlands wasn't running at 100's of frames per second on a GTX1080, even though the visuals are stunning. I wasn't. I was glad to finally see something tax my graphics card on Ultra settings for a change. This practice does seem to have been abandoned recently by the likes of Ubisoft and Bethesda who are providing high end graphical options for people with the horsepower to take advantage and hires texture packs and the like.
The real issue of "dumbed down" games is in terms of complexity and/or difficulty/challenge and it isn't due to consoles as such. It's more about appealing to as many people as possible. Look at movies for the classic example. Most modern games are like Michael Bay films. Dazzling visuals, huge set pieces, cliche stories. Not saying they're not entertaining, clearly they are or they wouldn't rake in the cash like they do, but they're not exactly challenging. The average IQ is somewhere in the region of 100. This is the bullseye as far as publishers are concerned. That's the demographic they're shooting at. Not all of them, granted, but most. They seem to be pretty good shots too as it happens. Unfortunately this leaves people who prefer something more challenging or cerebral out on a limb.
You can't blame consoles, they're just a piece of hardware. It's the publishers who are to blame. There was a time when it looked like games were heading into "art" territory. This seems to have passed now as everything must bend under the weight of the mighty dollar and video games are no different. They're a commodity. A product. They are designed to make as much money as possible. In truth, this trend has always been present in video games. Does anybody remember the once mighty Ocean Software and all their movie tie in's like Batman and Robocop? That's going back as far as the 80's, so this isn't a new phenomena, it's just gathered a hell of a lot more momentum.
I dont think anyone has any problem with ED being on consoles but there is evidence enough to show that the PC version is affected visually. Thats largely where peoples complaints have come from. There is a perception that console games are a bit dumbed down, I think its a reflection of how developers view console gamers.. A shame because in my view consoles arent just used by dummies, and less idiot proof games tend to be better received.
Theres also the argument for having greater access to other consumers on different platforms, all good for the bottom line and improvement of ED.
Frankly I don't think the present Xbone, or PS4 is quite powerful enough for ED.. It runs but its not stellar. Thats about to change mind you, the ps4 pro is an improvement but the new project scorpio is a big step, and a powerful platform.
When it comes to Scorpio, it should be able to run ED with ultra settings.. Dunno if it will be able to manage that in 4k but the visual fidelity can be changed for xbox one automatically. Therefore, there seems to be less reason for FD to continually nerf the gfx.
You'd have to ask them how they are managing all of this. So far though, we've seen a lot of graphical nerfs to ED on PC. They keep saying they are bugs but I don't believe a word of it.
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Deleted member 110222
D
Easy solution to games being "dumbed down" because of console releases... Don't buy such stupidly priced hardware.
The game runs great on my 960, and it runs great on my mates 1050Ti.
I have also played the game on a top-spec 1080 machine.
The difference in visuals? None. Just higher frames.
Look. Elite is a multiplayer game. Of course graphical compromise will be made, so as to accommodate lower spec players.
Honestly I think this top end gear is only worth it for hard-core single player games.
In my opinion, multiplayer games should be deliberately lower quality in visuals, to accommodate more players! Sue me!
The game runs great on my 960, and it runs great on my mates 1050Ti.
I have also played the game on a top-spec 1080 machine.
The difference in visuals? None. Just higher frames.
Look. Elite is a multiplayer game. Of course graphical compromise will be made, so as to accommodate lower spec players.
Honestly I think this top end gear is only worth it for hard-core single player games.
In my opinion, multiplayer games should be deliberately lower quality in visuals, to accommodate more players! Sue me!
stormyuk
Volunteer Moderator
Yeh thanks for that, we are all clueless on consoles obviously. Oh dear.
From this thread, this is quite clearly not true. A few people seem to have a big problem with consoles it seems. The fact FDev have stated the graphics have not been downgraded for the consoles. I am not sure how many times Michael Brookes needs to be quoted here. Clearly some people don't believe what he posted.
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Deleted member 110222
D
Think about what you said. Now appreciate why what you said is utterly insulting.
Just no.