The Console Is Not Your Enemy

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Games reached their peak of complexity about 25 years ago ? What utter tosh.

Lets look at a 1991 PC spec. An ultra-high-end system would be a 80486-based PC running at 25MHz with 4G of RAM and VGA graphics running at 1024x768 and would have cost US$ 4,500 in 1991 and would have been way way out of the reach of most people. So there would have been zero games written to take advantage of that level of hardware. Most people would be running a 12MHz 80286 with 2G of RAM with virtually no graphics capabilities - still a hefty US$ 1,500. CPUs are now at least x1000 quicker with at least 2x cores and graphics GPUs literally millions of times quicker. Are you seriously suggesting that today's games are no more complex ?
What world do you live in ?
If you are correct then games software must be the only genre of software that has not got more complex in the past 25 years - and I don't believe that for 1 second.

Sorry, you must have misunderstood what I meant. I wasn't talking about the programming, but the operating.

Most PC games from 25 years ago will have needlessly complicated with unintuitive menus and controls and a giant manual, which you needed at your side. (Atleast the ones I played!)
These days, controls generally conform to a standard (WASD, gamepad, ect), menus are usually clean and easy to understand, and manuals aren't really needed.

Basically, you can pick up and play a game without reading a manual or looking at the options for the controls these days.
Sure, back then we had some super simple games too.

 

[Zeeman]

Sorry, you must have misunderstood what I meant. I wasn't talking about the programming, but the operating.

Most PC games from 25 years ago will have needlessly complicated with unintuitive menus and controls and a giant manual, which you needed at your side. (Atleast the ones I played!)
These days, controls generally conform to a standard (WASD, gamepad, ect), menus are usually clean and easy to understand, and manuals aren't really needed.

Basically, you can pick up and play a game without reading a manual or looking at the options for the controls these days.
Sure, back then we had some super simple games too.

I'd like to take this opportunity to point out ED's menu system.

Though, whilst I am having a bit of a crack at FD for not even having a proper bindings management system (how do I back up/save in game? Seriously?). I'd say some things are more complex than ever.

Compare the A10C module in DCS to, say, Falcon on Amiga/Atari ST, or even Gunship. Falcon was hard. The A10-C is a few levels above.


Z...

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Truth be told, I pretty much stopped looking at graphics quality somewhere around the PS3 era.

If you're counting pixels then you're doing it wrong. IMHO, obviously.

^^
This.

And people become needlessly obsessed with frames per second too.
30-60fps is all you need, except for 3D/VR.

I recently cranked up the graphics on ED on my good old AMD HD 6870 1GB, from medium to high.
The game looks significantly nicer, but runs at 30~fps, instead of 60~fps.

It suits me fine. It's 100% playable.
My GPU isn't too happy about it though. Lol

I do still need a new GPU though, mine isn't gonna last forever. Lol

 

[lokvette]

Tldr... But i got about two pages in and thought I was reading a thread about a bunch of toddlers saying my toy is better than yours.

I get the feeling if it wasnt for the cross over onto consules ED would have died somtime ago, so thanks consule gamers for keeping the old girl going.

 

[Zeeman]

^^
This.

And people become needlessly obsessed with frames per second too.
30-60fps is all you need, except for 3D/VR.

I recently cranked up the graphics on ED on my good old AMD HD 6870 1GB, from medium to high.
The game looks significantly nicer, but runs at 30~fps, instead of 60~fps.

It suits me fine. It's 100% playable.
My GPU isn't too happy about it though. Lol

I do still need a new GPU though, mine isn't gonna last forever. Lol

I'd argue 60 FPS is minimal, and 120 probably, honestly, about "spot on". I can tell 30FPS vs 60 FPS easily, it's a huge change, and it also means it takes a bit longer before I fell sick in the SRV.

Also, keep in mind that it's kind of nice to not enforce your (very low, from my point of view) standards on others. And I'm not having a go at you, it's simply that all people go through life exposed to different things, I, for example, am in the AV industry, and have been installing very high end home cinema's for 20 years. To me, what most people class as "good sound" is rubbish. Same with video - as an ISF calibrator, I can pick flaws in images from a mile off. I can also pick mistakes in cabinets, things not being level, and all sort of other stuff - by eye, simply because I deal with these things each day.

So, it may suit you, and a lot of people, but not everyone. And when we *have* seen higher quality graphics in earlier builds, and then see them being reduced in quality.. Well... Now that's like taking back what someone bought, and giving them a slightly lower spec version instead.

The reality is, there is no need for this - isn't that the point of being able to adjust the detail settings of the graphics? So you can wind down the detail and heavy hitting graphical affects to ensure even machines from near a decade ago can still offer a good experience? So... Why can't we just do that, instead?

Let's be honest, a lot of us paid a lot of cash for some very nice hardware to play this game. This game is what got me back into building my own PC's again - I've built 2, in point of fact. One is a Z170 system with a 6600K and a GTX1080, and the other a Z97 4690K with a GTX 1080. Then there's my Rift. And my Warthog. And VKB pedals, Baur F3 pedals, Virpil Mongoos... I've seen other that have spent more, put in way more effort, and even built sim pits to replicate an ED cockpit.

Most of us work damn hard for that cash (just like most on this forum, I am sure), and we made sacrifices in order to get the best we can out of the game.

So yeah, you bet we feel entitled to a level of graphics detail that, actually, we had back in Gamma and S1.

Just a point of view to consider, and I really do hope the graphics will be back better than ever.

Now, for my final thoughts on consoles... I just wish we could all play in the same universe together. Having XB, PS, PC and Mac CMDR's all flying about, able to interact with each other... *dreams*

Z...

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Now, for my final thoughts on consoles... I just wish we could all play in the same universe together. Having XB, PS, PC and Mac CMDR's all flying about, able to interact with each other... *dreams*

Z...

Well, PC & Mac already do, but I agree that it would be nice if the Consoles could.

Why can't they, incidentally?

 

[DustyArne]

I wonder how the critics here react on the Scorpio..

reeallllyyyyy curious.. lol

 

[Zeeman]

Well, PC & Mac already do, but I agree that it would be nice if the Consoles could.

Why can't they, incidentally?

From my understanding, politics....

Z...

- - - Updated - - -

I wonder how the critics here react on the Scorpio..

reeallllyyyyy curious.. lol

Hard to judge something that can't be bought yet.

Z...

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

^^
This.

And people become needlessly obsessed with frames per second too.
30-60fps is all you need, except for 3D/VR.

I recently cranked up the graphics on ED on my good old AMD HD 6870 1GB, from medium to high.
The game looks significantly nicer, but runs at 30~fps, instead of 60~fps.

It suits me fine. It's 100% playable.
My GPU isn't too happy about it though. Lol

I do still need a new GPU though, mine isn't gonna last forever. Lol

Vr i cant agree here. Imo for vr you need every frame you can get. Space warp and time warp are not perfect but they are vital as they keep the hmd framerate high even when the game framerate drops but it introduces artefacts.

Vr running at a proper 90fps is so so much better than anything less. Its even noticable going from a dk2 at 75 to cv1 at 90.

As for on a monitor...... 30 is an acceptable minimum but 60 feels so much better. If you are used to 30 perhaps you do not feel it but if you play at 60 and get used to it 30 will feel unresponsive and just not feel as good.

Then of course you get the games which go below that. Just cause 3 or dead rising 3 on consoles for instance.

But again all that said, there are lots of pc players playing games at far worse settings than the xbox 1.

Ps ps4 has a supported hotas, further more it has a mouse track pad on the game pad and tilt recognition.

Whilst comfort wise the xb1 pad is my pad of choice the ps4 pad is the most versatile pad out there and will make many control arguments for ed at least moot anyway

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I wonder how the critics here react on the Scorpio..

reeallllyyyyy curious.. lol

Scorpio is what the xbox 1 should have been just as ps4 pro is what ps4 shoukd have been.

Admittedly 12gb of ram was probably overkill 3 years ago the scorpio is still sporting hardware performance which existed back then.

There was a time when when a console launched it traded blows with hih end pcs (look at xbox 360 specs and compare with a 2005 pc, its radeon was more advanced than even the top end ati card at launch).

Sadly those days are gone.

Rumours are ps5 will be coming in 2018. The game of cat and mouse continues. Despite me defending consoles in this thread imo MS really dropped the ball with the xbox1. Classic 3rd console curse imo.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Scorpio is what the xbox 1 should have been just as ps4 pro is what ps4 shoukd have been.

Admittedly 12gb of ram was probably overkill 3 years ago the scorpio is still sporting hardware performance which existed back then.

There was a time when when a console launched it traded blows with hih end pcs (look at xbox 360 specs and compare with a 2005 pc, its radeon was more advanced than even the top end ati card at launch).

Sadly those days are gone.

Rumours are ps5 will be coming in 2018. The game of cat and mouse continues. Despite me defending consoles in this thread imo MS really dropped the ball with the xbox1. Classic 3rd console curse imo.

If the rumours are true, this is why I'll never own another console. Lol
If they're gonna start farting out new ones every other year, there's no point.
My pc predates the xbone and PS4... Well some parts predate the PS2, but that's not the point.... Lol
Same reason I won't buy an iPhone or Samsung Galaxy. My old nexus 5 is still going. No need to upgrade to slightly better. Lol

 

[DustyArne]

Scorpio is what the xbox 1 should have been just as ps4 pro is what ps4 shoukd have been.

Admittedly 12gb of ram was probably overkill 3 years ago the scorpio is still sporting hardware performance which existed back then.

There was a time when when a console launched it traded blows with hih end pcs (look at xbox 360 specs and compare with a 2005 pc, its radeon was more advanced than even the top end ati card at launch).

Sadly those days are gone.

Rumours are ps5 will be coming in 2018. The game of cat and mouse continues. Despite me defending consoles in this thread imo MS really dropped the ball with the xbox1. Classic 3rd console curse imo.

We all agree on that one.. lol

Even me while my preferred console is the X1. I almost dropped it as well(the X1) a few months ago. I wanted to start gaming on my PC again, then the Scorpio details leaked a bit, and last month when Digital Foundry revealed the specs i decided to wait it out..

But it looks like its going to be a fine piece of hardware.. the 4K 60FPS Forza Motorsport was really impressive, and they only used 80% of the consoles power in the most demanding parts of the game.

 

[Spookyy]

These days console users need to "upgrade" every 2-3 years, just like PC. Funny that.

 

[DustyArne]

If the rumours are true, this is why I'll never own another console. Lol
If they're gonna start farting out new ones every other year, there's no point.
My pc predates the xbone and PS4... Well some parts predate the PS2, but that's not the point.... Lol
Same reason I won't buy an iPhone or Samsung Galaxy. My old nexus 5 is still going. No need to upgrade to slightly better. Lol

Its the same with PC GPU's. And they are twice the money of a new console..

You dont need to buy a new console, all games will play on it, just not as good as on the new console.. Pretty much the same with GPU's, you dont need to upgrade, its a choice..

So im sorry to say, but i dont understand your reply..

These days console users need to "upgrade" every 2-3 years, just like PC. Funny that.

There is just as much "need" as you "need" a new GPU..

You dont "need" you "want"

 

[Spookyy]

Thanks to consoles we got locked 30 fps and bad FOV. Locked down systems kinda sucks and it start poison the PC side also. But i guess in the future it will even out spec wise.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

If the rumours are true, this is why I'll never own another console. Lol
If they're gonna start farting out new ones every other year, there's no point.
My pc predates the xbone and PS4... Well some parts predate the PS2, but that's not the point.... Lol
Same reason I won't buy an iPhone or Samsung Galaxy. My old nexus 5 is still going. No need to upgrade to slightly better. Lol

Its all rumours and hersy but chances are given consoles ARE essentially small form factor pcs just highly specialised i reckon from now on they will be fully backwards compatible. Compared to PC hardware console hardware is cheap it is the software where they stiff us. A new console every 4- 5 years i am fine with. The PS4 pro is a strange one if indeed ps5 does come in 2018. Ps4 already has the beating technically of xbox so i am surprised they bothered with the pro (unless ps5 rumour is )

 

[Kerrash]

Personally I think it is great that everyone has so many options today for their particular situation/budget.

 

[Sir.Tj]

Common denominator being we all play ED.

That's the only thing that matters.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Thanks to consoles we got locked 30 fps and bad FOV. Locked down systems kinda sucks and it start poison the PC side also. But i guess in the future it will even out spec wise.

No that is thanks to lazy ports. There are plenty of games which are locked at 30 on console but 60 or more on pc. A console is just a convenient , upfront cost effective (longterm not so much with paid online etc) way of people being able to play decent games. It allows everyone to be on a level playing field and usually is not full of cheaters like on pc. For what they are they are great.

 

[bitstorm]

Common denominator being we all play ED.

That's the only thing that matters.

And that we get in proper shared galaxy. =p