The core gameplay is boring

[Colonel Kenney]

I can only agree with someone so much..

• Combat for the most part is fun and pretty feature complete. Minus the point to combat no real exciting missions, profitable ventures etc other than haz rez. But its pretty well done.
• Trade is not good at all. A) The in game features do not indicate profit B) You need 3rd party external tools C) There is no market volatility (ie there is a cap on profits etc) D) There is no supply chain / production E) The UI is too simple F) No Market analyis. I literally could go on and on about the lack of features in trading.
• Exploration with your EYES is very good. If you like eye candy you will enjoy it. Your pocketbook will not enjoy it. Your scientific curiousity will not enjoy it. There is little to nothing to find out there out of the ordinary (Other than a typo!) Exploration may as well be a screen shot simulator. But there are not even missions to take pictures! Even that sort of mission would be fun! At least we had a purpose for going to a planet! Exploration is simply done with your eyes and a push of a button. The lack of orrery map doesn't make it very fun other than when you are bored and are looking for scenic vistas..
• Mining - I enjoy and I think they did a good job with it now. It still needs a little work to make it more fun and profitable. (Add rare ores and materials and things you can spot visually to mine make it more like a treasure hunt).

So for me... 2/4 core components of the game are well done. This defines the love/hate relationship people have with this game. Its been 50/50.

Now as for boring

Combat - not boring - missions are boring
Trading - Trading is boring and the lack of really interesting missions and well done interface makes it boring and tedious looking for trades. Its like a job.
Exploration - Boring to the max.
Mining - Very boring but relaxing when you don't feel like high intensity gaming.

 

[FurtivePygmy]

I refrained from commenting on this thread until now and lurked to see where it would go. Obviously, it didn't lead anywhere unusual and interesting. The thing is, it's almost as shallow and boring as the mechanics OP is complaining of. There is a simple reason for this.

The reason is, everything the OP says is true.

The game simply lacks deep mechanics. They are repetitive, and if you are not REALLY into space travel and experiencing the emptiness of space itself, is admittedly quite boring. This may sound strange coming from me, someone is openly a fanboy who defends the game and its developers constantly, but I don't recommend this game to any of my friends who play games. I have a few friends to whom I would recommend, but instead I bought them the game so there was no need for recommendations.

Everything in the OP is true, so, why all the heat? Why are the white knights here? Why do some people feel the need to spend time here arguing?

The heat is not because the OP is wrong but because threads like this are perceived to be trolling. Even if everything the OP says is true, it sounds like trolling to those 'fanboys' of the game. The reason is really simple.

The reason is, while everything in the OP is true, they are equally obvious! Anyone and I mean ANYONE who plays this game can and does come to the same very obvious conclusion. The game is in a less than perfect state. There are numerous problems with it. It's shallow and boring to most people. It's all so obvious though, it's so obvious, it's nauseating to read it again and again day in day out. This is why these threads draw so much heat. Not because the OP is wrong, or they are trolling. Just because the criticism is so obvious and so easy to look through given the circumstances the game has been getting developed in.

Normally, if a project of this size would be possible in this day and age to be funded ahead of release through a classical business model, some company would pay for it's development for about 8 to 10 years in hopes that when it's finished and released, it would return a profit. The thing is, no sane company would fund the development of a very ambitious space sandbox for ten years because it's damn risky! If it wasn't, we'd be swimming in space games of this scope for years now. Space games were almost dead for more than a decade and it's just reviving.

The only thing left to do was to fund the game through an ongoing development following release through sales of season passes. This ran the very obvious risk of the early versions of the game getting the exact criticism it is getting right now. If you think about it, it's nothing more than an unfinished game being compared to a finished product in one's head. Nothing more. All the criticism comes to this simple point. The game is unfinished.

We all understand this fact but we get divided in one respect. One part of the community feels that the developers actually know what they are doing and the other part is somehow convinced otherwise. They apparently believe the developers of this project of astronomic proportions need to be reminded of very obvious shortcomings of their own product every hour of every day.

It's always the same complaints.

And it always comes down to this: The developers of this game WILL NOT alter their development plan significantly because they simply can't. It doesn't work like that. They are a conglomeration of different departments working on different aspects of the same project and they have to be coordinated and efficient. If they decided that the placeholder mechanics will have to make do for one season, no amount of complaining will make them reconsider and work on deeper mechanics on the first season. If they decide they'll have to make do for two seasons, then that's it. Players will get stuck with the mechanics for two seasons and if some leave, they will leave. No other way around it with a project of this size. If this was a two man indie project, it might be easier but even that way, you are kinda stuck with what the developer plans because that is simply how humans work.

Therefore, criticise the game fiercely by all means. Point out the flaws from the most minor to the most major in detail. I'm sure the devs appreciate that no matter what the fanboys or white knights say in defense. FD is made up of and headed by very smart people who can distinguish between a useless rant and a valuable insight. They will collect the feedback they deem valuable in a list and they'll address them in a planned fashion by distributing the necessary work through their overarching development plan in an efficient way. The only thing is, repeating the same complaints which are as shallow as the mechanics they are complaining about won't get anything done more than drawing heat and running discussions into a cul de sac.

It's a very fine line between a good criticism and a useless complaint but it's a very important line nonetheless.

I vote to have this be the standard automated reply to all future "this game is boring" threads...

Also, your refraining from recommendations doesn't sound strange at all to me as it is exactly the same boat I am in. Love the game, recognize the many issues, realize that I'm a little weird (have loved most any space game way back to things like Escape Velocity ), and understand that most of my friends probably wouldn't enjoy Elite like I do. Which is fine, since some of them really enjoy RTS's or MOBA's like I never will. None of this undermines the validity of OP's points. None of it undermines the legitimacy of the enjoyment that many of us get out of the game regardless of those points. As you've said, the key here is what counts as productive discussion and what is simply complaint or venting born of personal frustration.

 

[Scoopy Doopy]

The combat is nice. It would be better with different instances, maybe procedural generated and dynamaic with goals. Maybe this will come in time and I have hope in it.

The trading is very bad I think because of the instanced architecture of the game.
This:

http://www.elitedangerous-station.fr/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/elite-dangerous-015.jpg

and this:

http://www.mmorpg-center.com/wp-content/gallery/elite-dangerous/elite-dangerous-image9.jpg


would be a start.

And exploring would be awesome if you needed to do something other than honk, fly straight and wait.
Maybe using a scanner and probes. You know, Do stuff.

The same with mining. As I said in other threads, a scanner to identify ores in the asteroid and then using the correct frequency to mine that ore and if doing wrong it could shatter and damage the ship/mining laser.

This simple things would be a good start.

You are not looking at this right. Elite is a game of being a real live, normal, every day person, trying to make a living for themselves in the massive galaxy in which we all live. It is not a game about being a hero, a warrior, a princess or a magic fruit. People are substantially boring. Life is basically boring. We do pretty much the same thing all the time. What makes life interesting is the goals and trials we set ourselves, not how powerful the political party we support has become or how our group of friends "own" the street they live in. So with Elite, you have to set your own goals and succeed or fail in them. Frontier seem to be trying to make goals for people but it won't work and it can't work. Perhaps they too have forgotten what has made Elite last forty years.

Your exploration example is a perfect example of why some people find the game boring because they just don't get it, or don't want a game of life. Do you think Shackleton was brimming with excitement as he dragged a sledge, mile after mile across vast swathes of endless ice that all looked the same. Do you think he hummed with anticipation that the temperature might rise above -20 for five minutes. No, he trudged towards the pole, step by plodding step with back breaking endurance and probably constantly wishing he was home playing Elite instead. He didn't even make it. Scott may have entertained himself with lots of science before he actually did any exploring but, in the end, he did the same as Shackleton except he endeared himself to us all by eating a horse and writing a cool letter as he died.

The explorers of Elite are doing exactly that but in game form. The endurance required to get to The Abyss, let alone pick and plot a route through it and then, perhaps, find a bridge of scoopables between galactic arms, to report back to other explorers, perhaps having it named after them, is EXACTLY the right spirit for exploration. The honk, scan mechanic is irrelevant and making it "more interesting" will, in fact destroy it and make it far more boring and repetative

Much the same could be said of the prospectors of old, panning for gold or the pirates on the high seas and even, would you believe it, your modern combat soldier. In that, Elite has it perfect with long stretches of absolutely nothing and suddenly, intense and uncompromising action.

Perhaps your trading screen would be good and perhaps more unexpected things happening from time to time would help but Elite should always be a reflection of life, not a reflection of what many people wish it were.

Sorry to rant at your post It was one of several.

 

[Ignition]

I'd like them to be a little more open too but it's a double edged sword. They run the risk of shooting themselves in the foot by over promising. It's always better to take heat up front while working on stuff and then make up for it later than talk about what you are doing in detail and disappoint people down the line when things take longer than you planned.

The reason for the basic activities seem stuck for now and they can't make them just a bit more complex right now can be because of many things. One thing that comes to mind is that they have a more synergistic gameplay system planned which takes time to develop (and judging by the dev update from MB about 2.1, it seems true). MB said that without what they now have and have been developing until now, they wouldn't be able to develop the more complex stuff they are currently working on. We don't exactly know how their systems work so they must have a good reason given that we all wonder these.

Well when you put money in something you want to know what people are doing with it, and even more if you care about the product of it. I remember the Dev Diaries and the newsletter and they were more open about the stuff they were doing. Since release the news are only about groups of people (doing boring stuff), galnet news, CQC and pretty pictures which I don't care any of them.

I hope you're right because they said for 2.0 the mission would be more complex but are the same, they even have bugs.
As I said, AI fix and missions is a nice start.

 

[Boomer Kay]

These posts are boring.
Mightiely.
Always the same people, always the same topics, always turning in circles switching from general gameplay issues to specific mechanic issues to bugs and then back to the first plus if all else fails, the big Zen-like "sense" hammer.
NPCs are more interesting than that.

 

[Ignition]

You are not looking at this right. Elite is a game of being a real live, normal, every day person, trying to make a living for themselves in the massive galaxy in which we all live. It is not a game about being a hero, a warrior, a princess or a magic fruit. People are substantially boring. Life is basically boring. We do pretty much the same thing all the time. What makes life interesting is the goals and trials we set ourselves, not how powerful the political party we support has become or how our group of friends "own" the street they live in. So with Elite, you have to set your own goals and succeed or fail in them. Frontier seem to be trying to make goals for people but it won't work and it can't work. Perhaps they too have forgotten what has made Elite last forty years.

Your exploration example is a perfect example of why some people find the game boring because they just don't get it, or don't want a game of life. Do you think Shackleton was brimming with excitement as he dragged a sledge, mile after mile across vast swathes of endless ice that all looked the same. Do you think he hummed with anticipation that the temperature might rise above -20 for five minutes. No, he trudged towards the pole, step by plodding step with back breaking endurance and probably constantly wishing he was home playing Elite instead. He didn't even make it. Scott may have entertained himself with lots of science before he actually did any exploring but, in the end, he did the same as Shackleton except he endeared himself to us all by eating a horse and writing a cool letter as he died.

The explorers of Elite are doing exactly that but in game form. The endurance required to get to The Abyss, let alone pick and plot a route through it and then, perhaps, find a bridge of scoopables between galactic arms, to report back to other explorers, perhaps having it named after them, is EXACTLY the right spirit for exploration. The honk, scan mechanic is irrelevant and making it "more interesting" will, in fact destroy it and make it far more boring and repetative

Much the same could be said of the prospectors of old, panning for gold or the pirates on the high seas and even, would you believe it, your modern combat soldier. In that, Elite has it perfect with long stretches of absolutely nothing and suddenly, intense and uncompromising action.

Perhaps your trading screen would be good and perhaps more unexpected things happening from time to time would help but Elite should always be a reflection of life, not a reflection of what many people wish it were.

Sorry to rant at your post It was one of several.

OMG, this is so strange at so many levels. Another one who thinks that I want a story in the game...
Im looking the game objectively.

I never said I wanted to be the center or the hero or wathever.
I can't have personal goals in a game that doesn't give you tools to do that. To accomplish any goal with the mechanics already in the game you need to do exploration, trading, combat or mining which I described clearly in the OP.

The second paragraph..., well...., yeah..., hello? you know this is Elite right? A game?

What the explorers of Elite are doing is wandering the huge map pressing a button to jump to the next one, because theres nothing much more to do, oh yeah honk!! I recommend you space engine, again this is a game. More complexity doesn't need to be boring, in fact if its well designed it could be very nice. And you know what? you would be actually exploring.

You know those screens were a vision of the trade in Elite Dangerous right?

 

[SnowyNI]

These posts are boring.
Mightiely.
Always the same people, always the same topics, always turning in circles switching from general gameplay issues to specific mechanic issues to bugs and then back to the first plus if all else fails, the big Zen-like "sense" hammer.
NPCs are more interesting than that.

Forum pvp - the only way to fly!

 

[Itaki]

Needs mor cowbell.

I got a fevah!

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

Meh, gonna go play the game. More interesting that this repeat spammed argument.

 

[tawittle]

Disagree, the combat gets very technical and skill based. If your definition of "combat" is waiting around RES/CZ to last hit ships then yes that's boring. But a good pilot can take on NPC wings by themselves for fun. Sometimes in distress calls you find large pirate attacks (5-6+ waves) and/or capital ships. Then theres always pvp if you want a real fight.

 

[KaizoMK]

OMG, this is so strange at so many levels. Another one who thinks that I want a story in the game...
Im looking the game objectively.

I never said I wanted to be the center or the hero or wathever.
I can't have personal goals in a game that doesn't give you tools to do that. To accomplish any goal with the mechanics already in the game you need to do exploration, trading, combat or mining which I described clearly in the OP.

The second paragraph..., well...., yeah..., hello? you know this is Elite right? A game?

What the explorers of Elite are doing is wandering the huge map pressing a button to jump to the next one, because theres nothing much more to do, oh yeah honk!! I recommend you space engine, again this is a game. More complexity doesn't need to be boring, in fact if its well designed it could be very nice. And you know what? you would be actually exploring.

You know those screens were a vision of the trade in Elite Dangerous right?

People don't seem to understand that the gameplay objectively lacks depth. The mechanics are nice and are constantly improving, but it's still the same thing over and over, with no consequence or meaning. In fact, it's been constantly brought up that exploration does not actually exist in Elite - it's merely space tourism at the moment, yet people seem to think that anyone criticizing the game are witches that need to go play another game if you don't like it, and space is big and some more nonsense.

 

[Ignition]

Disagree, the combat gets very technical and skill based. If your definition of "combat" is waiting around RES/CZ to last hit ships then yes that's boring. But a good pilot can take on NPC wings by themselves for fun. Sometimes in distress calls you find large pirate attacks (5-6+ waves) and/or capital ships. Then theres always pvp if you want a real fight.

Yes, combat has its complexity because you're doing something with the ship and the flight dynamic is nice also.

Yes I was refering more about the instances. They aren't dynamic and they have no goals, just endlesly fighting until bored. They are like doors and you choose them but every instance is the same and feels like a joke.

Is the only profession where you're really doing something, checking energy and systems.

 

[Bokugo]

I think more variations in missions would go a long way. Take assassination missions for example. There are pretty much only 2 ways to do it, interdict them or sit still and wait for a signal source to pop up. Both are fine, but get old real quick. One way I think would be neat is to do an assault on a pirate outpost (already textured too ), disable the guns, take out the minions, and then the "boss" comes out to take care of you. And creating variations in that scenario like no minions/outpost guns, 2 bosses, a coward boss who runs, or the boss actually turns out to be a minion of another bigger threat with a higher bounty leading to essentially a double assassination mission.

Procedural games really need lots of small variations that make it so it doesn't always feel like the same thing. Think of Binding of Isaac, it's literally just going from room to room shooting enemies Gauntlet style. But because the rooms have so many variations, the enemies have variations, and there are sooo many items that can drastically change how you play the game, it's almost impossible to have 2 identical runs. There is almost always something new that can be found like item synergies.

I'm 98% sure this is what the vast majority are thinking about when they claim to want "content" but can't explain what content.

 

[Lowievisser]

just a little note for the OP, you do understand that ED has a 10 year (with a bit under 9 years left) development plan right??? So the game you are playing now, may well indeed be a far basic version of the game in 9 years time...

Yes it has its repetitive aspects, no doubt about it, yes aspects of the game seem shallow and indeed are at some level... ultimately no less shallow or repetitive than any of the previous releases in the elite franchise...

Will those things improve over time? I guess we will know in 9 years time

A plan he?

 

[Ian Skippy]

People don't seem to understand that the gameplay objectively lacks depth.

We've had about 12734 topics on what 'depth' means, and we still have no clear and objective definition. So what you really mean to say is "people have different opinions but I can't handle that, so please allow me to pretend my opinion is the Objective Truth." That kind of rhetoric lacks depth, in my opinion.

 

[Stanis]

You're right OP. but you have to understand the game is still under development.

The foundations were laid and the 2.1 appears very promising for example (I hope). Be patient! Like many of us here.

 

[CariadocThorne]

When I say this game has very basic gameplay people say to me that what I really want is a story driven game, I don't know why they say this because what I say is really clear...

That's why I open this thread because I don't want to talk about a story:

The core of the game: Combat, Trade, Exploration and Mining are very basic, very easy, simplistic and short.

Everything in this game revolves in those 4 activities, Community Goals, Wings and Powerplay included but there wasn't new content in the core gameplay.

And thats why people say there are very little things to do because its true, its always the same recycled basic tasks.
The basic activities are really short and simple, you can learn all from the begining and the only thing that will change is the ship you use, then is a matter of repeat those simple tasks until bored.

I don't mind to do repetitive things when the gameplay is fun!

I know there will be people who will say "this game is not for you move along" "don't come to the forums to say bad things about the game", but I have hope in this game.

In this game you choose an instance and the difficulty, it never ends, it has no goals and you know the outcome of it. The gameplay doesn't have variety and surprises and has no challenge specially in exploration and mining.

The mechanics are so simple that anyone can play it, from a kid to an older guy. Thats not bad but the game has no depth so when you learn how to play thats it, you're done. The gameplay doesn't go further.

The basic gameplay elements are meant to be simple. It is a sandbox game, and the whole point of a sandbox game is to give you the basic tools to make your own fun.

I understand why you are frustrated with people saying you want a story driven game, and they are wrong. But you do appear to want a game which gives you reasons to do things, which is not what sandbox games are for, they expect you to make your own reasons to do things.

For some people, just repeating the same things is enough. Like people who sit down in the evening and spend a couple of hours trucking goods around the galaxy to relax and unwind. That's cool, but it isn't enough for many of us.

The rest of us need a reason to play. For some it is pure roleplay, for others it is getting involved in Powerplay groups, planning out grand strategy, or BGS groups, helping spread their chosen minor factions.

As you say, the game doesn't end and it has no goals, so if you don't find your own reason to do stuff, it is all pointless.

This is not a flaw in the games design, or something FD just haven't addressed yet. It is meant to be that way. That doesn't mean the game isn't for you, it just means you have to figure out a reason to do stuff. If you can't do that, then you won't get out of it what others do.

What you see as a lack of depth, others see as near-infinite depth, because the tools are there (mostly) for us to make it as deep as we want it to be.

 

[KaizoMK]

We've had about 12734 topics on what 'depth' means, and we still have no clear and objective definition. So what you really mean to say is "people have different opinions but I can't handle that, so please allow me to pretend my opinion is the Objective Truth." That kind of rhetoric lacks depth, in my opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVL4st0blGU

AS I SAID, people don't understand that this game OBJECTIVELY LACKS DEPTH.

 

[Caldric]

I agree op after a month or so it is just boring, there is only so much you can do and most of it can been done in a few weeks.

 

[Kenaz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVL4st0blGU

AS I SAID, people don't understand that this game OBJECTIVELY LACKS DEPTH.

Zomg CAPS=depth
Mirite?