General / Off-Topic The Covid vaccine must be mandatory ?

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This change of course in the immunization campaign, already slowed this month by supply delays, is a setback as the UK almost finished injecting a first dose to every 32 million more age 50 and is preparing to extend it to the lower age groups.

Health Minister Matt Hancock has assured that Wednesday’s decision in no way calls into question the authorities objective of giving all adults a first dose by the end of July.

You can see that the vaccination of the whole population is very important for the United Kingdom, including those 30 years old and under.

To this end, the authorities have said that they will use other vaccines for these age groups.

So there is a problem of suspicion with Astrazeneca, half admitted by the authorities because other countries in Europe prohibit this vaccine to people under 55 years old.

😷

It has been decided by the committee that decide on vaccines that the risk / benefit balance is different in under 30s because their chances of dying from Covid are so small.

Since their are other vaccines available for that group they will be offered those instead (I believe they will actually be given a choice rather than automatically not given AZ but I’m not sure).

Seems like a sensible decision whilst more evidence is collected.
 
It has been decided by the committee that decide on vaccines that the risk / benefit balance is different in under 30s because their chances of dying from Covid are so small.

Since their are other vaccines available for that group they will be offered those instead (I believe they will actually be given a choice rather than automatically not given AZ but I’m not sure).

Seems like a sensible decision whilst more evidence is collected.
As a woman in my 30s, the group where as I recall it's around 0.8 risk of vaccine complications vs 2.6 of severe COVID complications, but who takes medication which already needs regular monitoring because, as my GP keeps insisting on reminding me, it increases my clotting risk, I'd hope they offer me and others in my situation an alternative as well, since we probably are at higher individual risk than the rest of our age bracket due to our medical circumstances.
 
If we vaccinate people already infected/with sequelae? That hasn't even been studied. No data to go on.

Cmdr. Stigbob maybe could give a viewpoint as an example, but so far he's fine, AFAIK.

Let's run numbers.
32 million cases in USA. 1/3 are getting brain issues, according to Lancet survey data. That's about 11 million people. If 1 in ten get depression, That's 1.1 million. If just 1 percent go on to suicide, that's 11 thousand additional deaths, lowballing the disaster.
Guessing risk factors: that will be ones who own guns (likely to succeed at attempt) but won't wear masks(likely to get infected) and got sick bad(over 40).

We need to figure a way to stop that. Maybe something nutritional can protect the brain from deteriorating? Maybe depressed victims voluntarily store their guns till recovery? Maybe a mental health program might help? If we can see it coming, it might be possible to mitigate it.
But that would need the public's cooperation, which is a bit, hit-and-miss, throughout this whole situation.
 
As a woman in my 30s, the group where as I recall it's around 0.8 risk of vaccine complications vs 2.6 of severe COVID complications, but who takes medication which already needs regular monitoring because, as my GP keeps insisting on reminding me, it increases my clotting risk, I'd hope they offer me and others in my situation an alternative as well, since we probably are at higher individual risk than the rest of our age bracket due to our medical circumstances.
Common sense dictates a question should be asked: 'Is this person susceptible to blood-clots, or dose this person have a medical reason, to suspect the possibility of blood-cots'. If there is a slight chance of the answer being yes; give them another type of vaccine. I mean, it is not rocket science, is it?

I do think it is very funny, that now the powers that be, are stating that there is no risk of blood-clots, with the second does. REALLY? I guess this was dreamed up, by the same people, bragging that, shop lifting offences had dropped, during the first lock-down.
 
As a woman in my 30s, the group where as I recall it's around 0.8 risk of vaccine complications vs 2.6 of severe COVID complications, but who takes medication which already needs regular monitoring because, as my GP keeps insisting on reminding me, it increases my clotting risk, I'd hope they offer me and others in my situation an alternative as well, since we probably are at higher individual risk than the rest of our age bracket due to our medical circumstances.

I would imagine when you go for a vaccine they will ask you about things like that before giving you the vaccine and arrange for you to come back for a different one if it isn’t suitable.
 
Well it affects me because I had an overvalued opinion of the United Kingdom during all my life and I realize that there are a lot of things that do not correspond to the image I had of this country.

I must say that your previous post in which you say:

"I mean they cannot refuse service based on gender, race, sexual orientation, etc "

stunned me !

Worthy of an underdeveloped country in the heart of Africa.

Incredible and sad. :(

😷
I have no idea what you are talking about.
Are you saying that you expect people to be refused service based on gender, race or sexual orientation?
 
It has been decided by the committee that decide on vaccines that the risk / benefit balance is different in under 30s because their chances of dying from Covid are so small.

Since their are other vaccines available for that group they will be offered those instead (I believe they will actually be given a choice rather than automatically not given AZ but I’m not sure).

Seems like a sensible decision whilst more evidence is collected.
It seems that the health authorities think differently in different countries. :)

😷
 
As a woman in my 30s, the group where as I recall it's around 0.8 risk of vaccine complications vs 2.6 of severe COVID complications, but who takes medication which already needs regular monitoring because, as my GP keeps insisting on reminding me, it increases my clotting risk, I'd hope they offer me and others in my situation an alternative as well, since we probably are at higher individual risk than the rest of our age bracket due to our medical circumstances.
Make sure you, that in the case of mass vaccination, that the procedure is not expeditious and superficial.

😷
 
It seems that the health authorities think differently in different countries. :)

😷

They do and I trust ours on this. It’s a very pragmatic approach given the very low risks. I’m in the age group that will still get it and if that’s what I’m offered then I’m going to have it.
 
I have no idea what you are talking about.
Are you saying that you expect people to be refused service based on gender, race or sexual orientation?
Not at all.

I am surprised that you still need to clarify this fact ("I mean they cannot refuse service based on gender, race, sexual orientation, etc ") which should not even be mentioned for a developed country.

Hallucinating :)

😷
 
They do and I trust ours on this. It’s a very pragmatic approach given the very low risks. I’m in the age group that will still get it and if that’s what I’m offered then I’m going to have it.
Good luck. :)

For me the pragmatic approach depends on the personal situation of each one, and not on the authorities who use global statistics without distinction of very many parameters.

😷
 
I have no idea what you are talking about.
Are you saying that you expect people to be refused service based on gender, race or sexual orientation?

I think he must have misread what you said. I can’t imagine Patrick would agree that sort of discrimination is acceptable.

Refusing to serve someone because they are wearing a crash helmet or a face mask is one thing, like refusing to serve petrol to someone drink driving.

But refusing based on prejudice is a whole different matter and rightly illegal. I’m glad I live in a country where that isn’t allowed.
 
Good luck. :)

For me the pragmatic approach depends on the personal situation of each one, and not on the authorities who use global statistics without distinction of very many parameters.

😷

I’ll be fine. I don’t play the lottery very often because I know I’ve got more chance of dying in a car crash driving home from work.

The chances of me dying from any vaccine are more than winning the Euromillions jackpot but far less than driving to work. Basically in the middle of the not something to lose sleep over risk level. :)

You’d be fine too but I’m not trying to talk you into it. You are probably more the sort that plays the lottery every week thinking “someone has to win it”. 😜
 
They do and I trust ours on this. It’s a very pragmatic approach given the very low risks. I’m in the age group that will still get it and if that’s what I’m offered then I’m going to have it.
Trust? Interesting. I saw on the Box today, someone state: Gaining access to vaccine data, was an issue, due to it being 'confidential'. As in medical records, are confidential and so the data within them, cannot be compiled to show/prove, any issues with the vaccine rollout, in the U.K.
 
Trust? Interesting. I saw on the Box today, someone state: Gaining access to vaccine data, was an issue, due to it being 'confidential'. As in medical records, are confidential and so the data within them, cannot be compiled to show/prove, any issues with the vaccine rollout, in the U.K.

I didn’t see the thing you are talking about but there is a system called ‘Yellow card’ here for people to report side effects of any drugs including the vaccines.

Anyone can use it apparently but it is normally used by medical practitioners I would think as most people won’t know about it. I know I didn’t until recently. If you got ill after a vaccine and someone becomes aware of they then it should be reported on that system. It is that system that is being used to identify blood clot case with vaccines here.

So suppose you have a vaccine then call the doctor with massive rash and mention you had a vaccine two days ago... that should end up on that system along with any other relevant information like you are allergic to cats and they give you a rash too. The vaccine companies and government don’t have access to your medical records because of GDPR: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation If enough yellow-cards get flagged with the same data then it ends up being investigated, which is where we are with AZ and blood clots. On a side note to GDPR; that is why you get the utterly annoying “accept cookies” everywhere.



I don’t think anyone is trying to hide anything (I understand why you are suspicious though).
 
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I didn’t see the thing you are talking about but there is a system called ‘Yellow card’ here for people to report side effects of any drugs including the vaccines.

Anyone can use it apparently but it is normally used by medical practitioners I would think as most people won’t know about it. I know I didn’t until recently. If you got ill after a vaccine and someone becomes aware of they then it should be reported on that system. It is that system that is being used to identify blood clot case with vaccines here.

So suppose you have a vaccine then call the doctor with massive rash and mention you had a vaccine two days ago... that should end up on that system along with any other relevant information like you are allergic to cats and they give you a rash too. The vaccine companies and government don’t have access to your medical records because of GDPR: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation If enough yellow-cards get flagged with the same data then it ends up being investigated, which is where we are with AZ and blood clots. On a side note to GDPR; that is why you get the utterly annoying “accept cookies” everywhere.



I don’t think anyone is trying to hide anything (I understand why you are suspicious though).
I had never heard of the yellow card before today. Thanks and it is interesting that as you said. The blood cot issue in the UK, has only been verified, by the use of this database.

I would say that in 10 to 20 years from now, many things will come to light and I think your last sentence, is 'hopeful' at best. The whole country is asking for an enquiry into the 1st 12 months handling of the pandemic in the U.K. and the only opposition to said inquiry, is those doing the handling. Maybe it is the little things like: 28,000 people moved from hospital beds into care homes untested, before the end of April 2020 or the 37 billion spent on a test and trace system that is still a year later; unfit for purpose. Nothing to hide here.
 
I had never heard of the yellow card before today. Thanks and it is interesting that as you said. The blood cot issue in the UK, has only been verified, by the use of this database.

I would say that in 10 to 20 years from now, many things will come to light and I think your last sentence, is 'hopeful' at best. The whole country is asking for an enquiry into the 1st 12 months handling of the pandemic in the U.K. and the only opposition to said inquiry, is those doing the handling. Maybe it is the little things like: 28,000 people moved from hospital beds into care homes untested, before the end of April 2020 or the 37 billion spent on a test and trace system that is still a year later; unfit for purpose. Nothing to hide here.

I was only referring to vaccines. They got that entire thing right and I trust our scientists to do the right thing.

The rest of crisis handling is wide open for debate as far as I’m concerned. I think I’ve done farts that could have done a better job of handling it (like the schools thing.... everyone but the government understood kids were spreading it around and not getting ill).
 
I’ll be fine. I don’t play the lottery very often because I know I’ve got more chance of dying in a car crash driving home from work.

The chances of me dying from any vaccine are more than winning the Euromillions jackpot but far less than driving to work. Basically in the middle of the not something to lose sleep over risk level. :)

You’d be fine too but I’m not trying to talk you into it. You are probably more the sort that plays the lottery every week thinking “someone has to win it”. 😜
You can’t compare a guy with commorbidities who lives in the heart of a city of 10 million people and where the virus is actively circulating, with a guy with no health problems who lives in a village of 500 people and where the virus is not circulating.

The French government understood the lesson. During the first wave it confined the entire country for several weeks, even areas where the virus was not circulating.

Today it applies the restrictions in places that need restrictions, not in places where nothing is happening. It’s a lot smarter.

Juste to say, and no lottery here but rationality. :)

😷
 
You can’t compare a guy with commorbidities who lives in the heart of a city of 10 million people and where the virus is actively circulating, with a guy with no health problems who lives in a village of 500 people and where the virus is not circulating.

The French government understood the lesson. During the first wave it confined the entire country for several weeks, even areas where the virus was not circulating.

Today it applies the restrictions in places that need restrictions, not in places where nothing is happening. It’s a lot smarter.

Juste to say, and no lottery here but rationality. :)

😷
Yes, no issues there. By the way, how many Covid deaths recorded in France yesterday? 420, yes that is working very well.
 
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