General / Off-Topic The Covid vaccine must be mandatory ?

Not for any reason they see fit

Their business their rules. That's why airlines and businesses can boot the unmasked, it's also why mask and vax refusing employee's can be booted. At least one of the famous qanon types who attacked the american capitol was kicked out of the American military for refusing vaccinations a decade earlier.

If we vaccinate people already infected/with sequelae? That hasn't even been studied. No data to go on.

Cmdr. Stigbob maybe could give a viewpoint as an example, but so far he's fine, AFAIK.
I've been fine. Lots of muscle strains, which could be linked given my symptoms were a week of feeling like I'd overdone it in the gym before I got actual covid symptoms. But I've bought a new place and have been landscaping the garden so shifting massive rocks could well be the cause of that.

The people I know with long covid or who had covid pre-vaccine have had no vaccine related issues, other than being really pro-vaccines after infection for obvious reasons. One guy fainted immediately due to a needle phobia but a hospital is the best place to do that. Long covid sufferers get breathless easily and their SPO2 is all over the place without any warning, sometimes cripplingly so but they recover over months and it becomes less of an issue. Asthmatics seem most vulnerable to long covid. Originally I had to keep an eye on my crew mate so I could catch her if her legs went and pop her in a chair or the stretcher while her 02 stabilized, she's fully recovered now thankfully. Possible mini-stroke from covid as it affected her speech for a day while she was infected a month pre-vaccination, which is the real risk of pandemic blood clots.

No anaphylactic issues at all from any of the people or vaccination centre's that I know of either.

It's all purely anecdotal but anti-vax attitudes among us haven't survived actual contact with the virus but were fairly prevalent to a small degree in younger people who get all their news on social media and/or came from a care home background.

Care homes are the only place in the UK the government considered compulsory jabs for staff due to low take-up, again anecdotally there is a noticeable anti-vax ethos there but if you discuss it with them it's all the classic conspiracies even the autism scare yet they've never heard of Andrew Wakefield his scam or why he was stripped of his Doctorate. Again that's noticeably reducing over time, so I think direct experience of the virus is educating them.

TLDR : Covid visibly kills and really messes people up, the vaccines don't.
 
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If we vaccinate people already infected/with sequelae? That hasn't even been studied. No data to go on.

Cmdr. Stigbob maybe could give a viewpoint as an example, but so far he's fine, AFAIK.

Let's run numbers.
32 million cases in USA. 1/3 are getting brain issues, according to Lancet survey data. That's about 11 million people. If 1 in ten get depression, That's 1.1 million. If just 1 percent go on to suicide, that's 11 thousand additional deaths, lowballing the disaster.

We need to figure a way to stop that. Maybe something nutritional can protect the brain from deteriorating? Maybe depressed victims voluntarily store their guns till recovery? Maybe a mental health program might help? If we can see it coming, it might be possible to mitigate it.
It's the Stigbob thing, he had to get over it first iirc...then vaccine. Just thinking it may be prudent to get a test first.
 
The vaccination has very low benefits below that age, and is not worth giving if only ICU admissions are considered.
This change of course in the immunization campaign, already slowed this month by supply delays, is a setback as the UK almost finished injecting a first dose to every 32 million more age 50 and is preparing to extend it to the lower age groups.

Health Minister Matt Hancock has assured that Wednesday’s decision in no way calls into question the authorities objective of giving all adults a first dose by the end of July.

You can see that the vaccination of the whole population is very important for the United Kingdom, including those 30 years old and under.

To this end, the authorities have said that they will use other vaccines for these age groups.

So there is a problem of suspicion with Astrazeneca, half admitted by the authorities because other countries in Europe prohibit this vaccine to people under 55 years old.

😷
 
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And I just read : Spain and Italy announced on Wednesday (April 7th) that they would reserve AstraZeneca's Covid vaccine for those over 60

"We will continue to administer the AstraZeneca vaccine, but from the age of 60", announced the Spanish Minister of Health.

Spain will, however, "study" its enlargement "for people between the ages of 65 and 80," the minister said.

On the Italian side, it was decided "to recommend the use preferably to people over 60 years old", as Germany and the Netherlands to people over 60s (France over 55s).

Vaccinate yes but not vaccinate to make numbers.

And without lack of hindsight, I prefer not to imagine the potential short-term side effects (2-3 years).

😷
 
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It's the Stigbob thing, he had to get over it first iirc...then vaccine. Just thinking it may be prudent to get a test first.
You need to wait 28 days from infection to vaccine and can expect the bad side effects if you've had covid which for me was a 24 hour fever and arm pain.

A test first if you have them can't hurt, but you get false results for 90 days post infection so might not be reliable.
 
This change of course in the immunization campaign, already slowed this month by supply delays, is a setback as the UK almost finished injecting a first dose to every 32 million more age 50 and is preparing to extend it to the lower age groups.

Health Minister Matt Hancock has assured that Wednesday’s decision in no way calls into question the authorities objective of giving all adults a first dose by the end of July.

You can see that the vaccination of the whole population is very important for the United Kingdom, including those 30 years old and under.

To this end, the authorities have said that they will use other vaccines for these age groups.

So there is a problem of suspicion with Astrazeneca, half admitted by the authorities because other countries in Europe prohibit this vaccine to people under 55 years old.

😷

It has been decided by the committee that decide on vaccines that the risk / benefit balance is different in under 30s because their chances of dying from Covid are so small.

Since their are other vaccines available for that group they will be offered those instead (I believe they will actually be given a choice rather than automatically not given AZ but I’m not sure).

Seems like a sensible decision whilst more evidence is collected.
 
It has been decided by the committee that decide on vaccines that the risk / benefit balance is different in under 30s because their chances of dying from Covid are so small.

Since their are other vaccines available for that group they will be offered those instead (I believe they will actually be given a choice rather than automatically not given AZ but I’m not sure).

Seems like a sensible decision whilst more evidence is collected.
As a woman in my 30s, the group where as I recall it's around 0.8 risk of vaccine complications vs 2.6 of severe COVID complications, but who takes medication which already needs regular monitoring because, as my GP keeps insisting on reminding me, it increases my clotting risk, I'd hope they offer me and others in my situation an alternative as well, since we probably are at higher individual risk than the rest of our age bracket due to our medical circumstances.
 
If we vaccinate people already infected/with sequelae? That hasn't even been studied. No data to go on.

Cmdr. Stigbob maybe could give a viewpoint as an example, but so far he's fine, AFAIK.

Let's run numbers.
32 million cases in USA. 1/3 are getting brain issues, according to Lancet survey data. That's about 11 million people. If 1 in ten get depression, That's 1.1 million. If just 1 percent go on to suicide, that's 11 thousand additional deaths, lowballing the disaster.
Guessing risk factors: that will be ones who own guns (likely to succeed at attempt) but won't wear masks(likely to get infected) and got sick bad(over 40).

We need to figure a way to stop that. Maybe something nutritional can protect the brain from deteriorating? Maybe depressed victims voluntarily store their guns till recovery? Maybe a mental health program might help? If we can see it coming, it might be possible to mitigate it.
But that would need the public's cooperation, which is a bit, hit-and-miss, throughout this whole situation.
 
As a woman in my 30s, the group where as I recall it's around 0.8 risk of vaccine complications vs 2.6 of severe COVID complications, but who takes medication which already needs regular monitoring because, as my GP keeps insisting on reminding me, it increases my clotting risk, I'd hope they offer me and others in my situation an alternative as well, since we probably are at higher individual risk than the rest of our age bracket due to our medical circumstances.
Common sense dictates a question should be asked: 'Is this person susceptible to blood-clots, or dose this person have a medical reason, to suspect the possibility of blood-cots'. If there is a slight chance of the answer being yes; give them another type of vaccine. I mean, it is not rocket science, is it?

I do think it is very funny, that now the powers that be, are stating that there is no risk of blood-clots, with the second does. REALLY? I guess this was dreamed up, by the same people, bragging that, shop lifting offences had dropped, during the first lock-down.
 
As a woman in my 30s, the group where as I recall it's around 0.8 risk of vaccine complications vs 2.6 of severe COVID complications, but who takes medication which already needs regular monitoring because, as my GP keeps insisting on reminding me, it increases my clotting risk, I'd hope they offer me and others in my situation an alternative as well, since we probably are at higher individual risk than the rest of our age bracket due to our medical circumstances.

I would imagine when you go for a vaccine they will ask you about things like that before giving you the vaccine and arrange for you to come back for a different one if it isn’t suitable.
 
Well it affects me because I had an overvalued opinion of the United Kingdom during all my life and I realize that there are a lot of things that do not correspond to the image I had of this country.

I must say that your previous post in which you say:

"I mean they cannot refuse service based on gender, race, sexual orientation, etc "

stunned me !

Worthy of an underdeveloped country in the heart of Africa.

Incredible and sad. :(

😷
I have no idea what you are talking about.
Are you saying that you expect people to be refused service based on gender, race or sexual orientation?
 
It has been decided by the committee that decide on vaccines that the risk / benefit balance is different in under 30s because their chances of dying from Covid are so small.

Since their are other vaccines available for that group they will be offered those instead (I believe they will actually be given a choice rather than automatically not given AZ but I’m not sure).

Seems like a sensible decision whilst more evidence is collected.
It seems that the health authorities think differently in different countries. :)

😷
 
As a woman in my 30s, the group where as I recall it's around 0.8 risk of vaccine complications vs 2.6 of severe COVID complications, but who takes medication which already needs regular monitoring because, as my GP keeps insisting on reminding me, it increases my clotting risk, I'd hope they offer me and others in my situation an alternative as well, since we probably are at higher individual risk than the rest of our age bracket due to our medical circumstances.
Make sure you, that in the case of mass vaccination, that the procedure is not expeditious and superficial.

😷
 
It seems that the health authorities think differently in different countries. :)

😷

They do and I trust ours on this. It’s a very pragmatic approach given the very low risks. I’m in the age group that will still get it and if that’s what I’m offered then I’m going to have it.
 
I have no idea what you are talking about.
Are you saying that you expect people to be refused service based on gender, race or sexual orientation?
Not at all.

I am surprised that you still need to clarify this fact ("I mean they cannot refuse service based on gender, race, sexual orientation, etc ") which should not even be mentioned for a developed country.

Hallucinating :)

😷
 
They do and I trust ours on this. It’s a very pragmatic approach given the very low risks. I’m in the age group that will still get it and if that’s what I’m offered then I’m going to have it.
Good luck. :)

For me the pragmatic approach depends on the personal situation of each one, and not on the authorities who use global statistics without distinction of very many parameters.

😷
 
I have no idea what you are talking about.
Are you saying that you expect people to be refused service based on gender, race or sexual orientation?

I think he must have misread what you said. I can’t imagine Patrick would agree that sort of discrimination is acceptable.

Refusing to serve someone because they are wearing a crash helmet or a face mask is one thing, like refusing to serve petrol to someone drink driving.

But refusing based on prejudice is a whole different matter and rightly illegal. I’m glad I live in a country where that isn’t allowed.
 
Good luck. :)

For me the pragmatic approach depends on the personal situation of each one, and not on the authorities who use global statistics without distinction of very many parameters.

😷

I’ll be fine. I don’t play the lottery very often because I know I’ve got more chance of dying in a car crash driving home from work.

The chances of me dying from any vaccine are more than winning the Euromillions jackpot but far less than driving to work. Basically in the middle of the not something to lose sleep over risk level. :)

You’d be fine too but I’m not trying to talk you into it. You are probably more the sort that plays the lottery every week thinking “someone has to win it”. 😜
 
They do and I trust ours on this. It’s a very pragmatic approach given the very low risks. I’m in the age group that will still get it and if that’s what I’m offered then I’m going to have it.
Trust? Interesting. I saw on the Box today, someone state: Gaining access to vaccine data, was an issue, due to it being 'confidential'. As in medical records, are confidential and so the data within them, cannot be compiled to show/prove, any issues with the vaccine rollout, in the U.K.
 
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