General / Off-Topic The Covid vaccine must be mandatory ?
- Thread starter Patrick_68000
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I was being sarcastic. But you know this already.
It's always breathtaking to encounter the bitter reality that the obvious is not so obvious to so many.
And here is one reason why:
I'd suggest that people look at this article:
en.wikipedia.org
Maybe you'll catch Covid. Maybe it will be bad. Maybe the vaccines can stop it. Maybe there will be a side effect.
All of those things have very different probabilities.
And with a vmPFC lesion, it's completely impossible to work it out. You can best see this by this statement: 6=1,000,000.
For example: "You can't make me! I have a gun! I'll go feral! YAaaaaaaaaa!!!!!! I'll kill myself before getting that vaccine!" How many posts like that have we seen?
It's scary isn't it?
You really want these individuals to make the rules for themselves in our societies?
They cannot. They're impaired. Their opinions hold exactly zero weight.
And here is one reason why:
I'd suggest that people look at this article:
Ventromedial prefrontal cortex - Wikipedia
Maybe you'll catch Covid. Maybe it will be bad. Maybe the vaccines can stop it. Maybe there will be a side effect.
All of those things have very different probabilities.
And with a vmPFC lesion, it's completely impossible to work it out. You can best see this by this statement: 6=1,000,000.
For example: "You can't make me! I have a gun! I'll go feral! YAaaaaaaaaa!!!!!! I'll kill myself before getting that vaccine!" How many posts like that have we seen?
Yep. Like not caring about the deaths. Not being willing to mask to protect others. etc. Conflating it with pollution.
That 5 G theory is looking good. I'm in favor of conspiracy ideas that are just as good as that "science". It's just the 'flu. Vaccines change your genes!
Forbes Headline:
Killing Of Georgia Cashier Is Latest In A String Of Fatal Shootings Over Mask-Wearing—Here Are The Rest
Oho?
It's scary isn't it?
You really want these individuals to make the rules for themselves in our societies?
They cannot. They're impaired. Their opinions hold exactly zero weight.
Yes, I suspect that you know how to use discernment in the face of disturbing situations.
Without minimizing and without maximizing, this is my motto.
When did you last see a flu season have people dying for lack of oxygen/treatment?
When was the last time the flu denied people access to all the usual hospital treatments?
Saying covid is like the flu is displaying a total misunderstanding of what has been happening.
You are looking at it from an entirely personal point of view - which is obviously not how a government can see it.
Patrick, I've always been prepared to make allowances based on the fact that you are arguing in a non native language.This is wrong, the pollution is much more important.
Yes because the pollution is an epidemic.
Epidemic : "This affects a large number of people by spreading (harmful phenomenon)."
But it's clear now that you really can't see the difference between your pet subject - pollution - and a highly transmissible disease.
I have now reached the conclusion that you may in fact be a bellend or, a troll.
"Because people aren't doing what I want them to do" is not a satisfactory answer to the question "what justifies stripping adults of their legal control over their persons, actions, and decisions?".
Of course it's different. Everything else you just listed is a positive action made by the person, or the lack of a positive action that is legally mandated while undertaking a specific, optional activity.
"Being alive" is not an act that one chooses to inflict on others, or a an optional activity, and our bodies are not the property of the state.
Like I said (or implied) before, if this were approaching zombie apocalypse/Andromeda Strain levels of seriousness then it would be understandable that people were clamouring for such draconian measures, but for something that's less than an order of magnitude worse than the flu it just isn't. I'm astonished how many people seem to think it is.
Umm, people are damaging people (for example stabbing random people)
The virus has so far killed many many more people and disrupted their lives than the vaccine.
So you're okay with the virus, because you feel it won't affect you - but against the vaccine even though the vaccine is significantly less likely to affect you?
1) I have no idea because, like most people, I just get on with my life without thinking or worrying about flu season and not hearing much about it. But the numbers show several to tens of thousands of people die from it each year. Is that not enough? How many is enough? That's what I'm asking.
2) Covid isn't denying anyone anything, it's the restrictions imposed by humans that are doing that.
3) I didn't say "it is like flu", I compared the death rates of the two. In fact I didn't even do that as I was just using the numbers provided by someone else, I was comparing the reactions to those death rates and asking why one number being 6x higher than the other warrants the polar opposite response. How people who don't get vaccinated and don't care are considered perfectly normal in one case, and considered that utmost evil in the other, when the difference between the two cases doesn't appear to warrant such a radical shift in opinion. Or at least asking where the threshold is that people think does warrant it.
4) I don't even understand how the last comment applies. I gave my personal view, but I also said that everyone else has a personal view too, and was saying no-one with one polarised view has the right to demand everyone else adopt it. And comparing raw numbers was anything but a personal view and is exactly how a government should be looking at it. Dispassionately looking at the raw numbers and not bowing to hysteria and hyperbole.
I'm not sure if you think I'm defending people stabbing other people (?!), but I'm not. I am pretty sure there are already laws against that sort of thing though. How about we don't go around stabbing other people against their will (even with needles)?
I'm not "okay" with the virus, nor am I "against" the vaccine. What I'm against is throwing human rights out of the window and acting like it's a wonderful thing. I'm against stating that anyone who doesn't agree with your extreme polarised opinion is mentally deficient or literally brain damaged. And I'm against hyperbole over a situation that doesn't appear to warrant it (the previous two being examples of this). 120k (mostly elderly or infirm) deaths in the last year is not great at all, but neither does it warrant apocalyptic panic stations.
1. the issue isn't about the numbers. Literally everyone alive is going to die - no numbers can compare with that. It's about access to treatment/services when more people that need it can access it. That hasn't happened since I've been alive.
2. okay - so do you think it would have happened if covid wasn't around? Do you think everyone is just having a laugh, wrecking their economies for s and giggles?
3. Flu and covid affect the system differently. One has been around for ages the other is novel.
4. It's really simple, you are looking at it from apersonal point of view because you, like me, and everyone else is selfish. The goverment has to look at the collective risk which is entirely different.
I was giving an example. You said ""Because people aren't doing what I want them to do" is not a satisfactory answer to the question "what justifies stripping adults of their legal control over their persons, actions, and decisions?".
I gave an example that stabbing people is an example of someone doing something I don't want them to do i.e. stab people.
In that situation "stripping an adult of their rights legal control over their persons, actions, and decisions?" would be entirely justifiable to stop them stabbing. Maybe you need a better example.
If I were suggesting you were defending stabby people I would have made it clear.
I'm not okay with throwing human rights out the window but then I don't think anyone is doing that. Does your right to not give a poop about potentially infecting people trump someone else's right about potentially not being infected? You're finishing with the numbers thing again - completely missing the point.
And I wouldn't have any problem stating that someone is mentally deficient or brain damaged if that's how it looked to me. I don't think either of those apply in your case - though I should add that I'm not qualified to make such an assessment so I could be wrong - but no, I just think you're mistaken.
Indeed the school of higher studies in social sciences is a troll.
Pollution is a chronic pandemic.
It has become the fourth factor in premature death on Earth. Cardiovascular disease, lung cancer, chronic lung disease, respiratory infections ... Air pollution is responsible for one in ten deaths worldwide.
Une autre pandémie : la pollution
Comment repenser nos structures économiques et sociales et nos modes de production pour limiter nos empreintes délétères sur le monde ?
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Forbes also is a troll.
There is a pandemic that nobody talks about, which kills more than 8 million people each year, and which could worsen the Covid-19.
In France, Germany, Italy and Spain, nearly 80% of deaths from Covid-19 have occurred in the most polluted regions..
La Pollution De L'Air : Plus Dangereuse Que Le Coronavirus - Forbes France
Il existe une pandémie dont personne ne parle, qui tue pourtant plus de 8 millions de personnes chaque année, et qui pourrait aggraver le Covid-19. Si...Pollution
www.forbes.fr
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Whether you like it or not, the pollution is an epidemic, it kills 8 million people every year in the world, is much more dangerous than covid which in comparison is a little cat pee.
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Thomas Jefferson--despite being a massive hypocrite--had a few ideas I consider to be pretty good ones when it comes to the degree of freedom that is just. In particular, that, "rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will, within the limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others".
His answer is more along the lines of "people are making themselves a threat to others" and thus impinging on the rights of others.
That's always been the main complaint about those failing to socially distance, not wearing masks, or refusing to vaccinate. It's not that those people are a threat to themselves (though this is also a problem if they have dependents or they can't just be left to rot where they fall...as someone will have to clean up the mess--social or biological--they leave behind, probably at tax payer expense) it's that they are making decisions that, with very few degrees separating cause and effect, are substantially likely to impact others.
His answer is more along the lines of "people are making themselves a threat to others" and thus impinging on the rights of others.
That's always been the main complaint about those failing to socially distance, not wearing masks, or refusing to vaccinate. It's not that those people are a threat to themselves (though this is also a problem if they have dependents or they can't just be left to rot where they fall...as someone will have to clean up the mess--social or biological--they leave behind, probably at tax payer expense) it's that they are making decisions that, with very few degrees separating cause and effect, are substantially likely to impact others.
Indeed the school of higher studies in social sciences is a troll.
Pollution is a chronic pandemic.
It has become the fourth factor in premature death on Earth. Cardiovascular disease, lung cancer, chronic lung disease, respiratory infections ... Air pollution is responsible for one in ten deaths worldwide.
Une autre pandémie : la pollution
Comment repenser nos structures économiques et sociales et nos modes de production pour limiter nos empreintes délétères sur le monde ?www.ehess.fr
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Forbes also is a troll.
There is a pandemic that nobody talks about, which kills more than 8 million people each year, and which could worsen the Covid-19.
In France, Germany, Italy and Spain, nearly 80% of deaths from Covid-19 have occurred in the most polluted regions..
La Pollution De L'Air : Plus Dangereuse Que Le Coronavirus - Forbes France
Il existe une pandémie dont personne ne parle, qui tue pourtant plus de 8 millions de personnes chaque année, et qui pourrait aggraver le Covid-19. Si...Pollutionwww.forbes.fr
There is no point doing anything about it. Some people might die trying to solve the problem.
I’m all for stopping pollution but not until the solution is completely risk free. I don’t want to be killed by a wind turbine!
Forget Eagle Deaths, Wind Turbines Kill Humans
If human life is worth $129,000 per year, and coal kills 15,000 people a year in the U.S., that means the industry gets about $37 billion in death tax credits per year.Wind's death subsidy is only a few million dollars and nuclear doesn't get any of this particular subsidy.
www.forbes.com
Here is not the subject.There is no point doing anything about it. Some people might die trying to solve the problem.
I’m all for stopping pollution but not until the solution is completely risk free. I don’t want to be killed by a wind turbine!
Forget Eagle Deaths, Wind Turbines Kill Humans
If human life is worth $129,000 per year, and coal kills 15,000 people a year in the U.S., that means the industry gets about $37 billion in death tax credits per year.Wind's death subsidy is only a few million dollars and nuclear doesn't get any of this particular subsidy.
I'm just saying (specialists say) that pollution is an epidemic like other viral epidemics and that this epidemic is much more dangerous than covid.
I don't intend to pee in my pants because of the covid, while the pollution is on my head constantly.
Less for me since I live in the mountains and that I sit on the covid and I am less exposed to pollution.
However I find that all these people who live in densely populated areas, and who are adept at overpollution, overproduction and overconsumption, should stop peeing in their pants from morning to night because of covid, if the rest of the time they don't pee in their pants for the pollution.
Is this the world they want ? Okay no problem. That they assume and stop crying.
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Healthcare isn't a breach of human rights. Putting others at risk during a deadly pandemic however is a breach of other people's human right to life. Similar refusal to observe social distancing or wear masks also limits the freedoms of others as it's the only reason we haven't wiped covid out yet.
Were there any medical or scientific justification for antivax views it would be different, but since it's all dangerous twaddle I don't care.
Whataboutery.Indeed the school of higher studies in social sciences is a troll.
Pollution is a chronic pandemic.
It has become the fourth factor in premature death on Earth. Cardiovascular disease, lung cancer, chronic lung disease, respiratory infections ... Air pollution is responsible for one in ten deaths worldwide.
Une autre pandémie : la pollution
Comment repenser nos structures économiques et sociales et nos modes de production pour limiter nos empreintes délétères sur le monde ?
----------------
Forbes also is a troll.
There is a pandemic that nobody talks about, which kills more than 8 million people each year, and which could worsen the Covid-19.
In France, Germany, Italy and Spain, nearly 80% of deaths from Covid-19 have occurred in the most polluted regions..
La Pollution De L'Air : Plus Dangereuse Que Le Coronavirus - Forbes France
Il existe une pandémie dont personne ne parle, qui tue pourtant plus de 8 millions de personnes chaque année, et qui pourrait aggraver le Covid-19. Si...Pollutionwww.forbes.fr
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Whether you like it or not, the pollution is an epidemic, it kills 8 million people every year in the world, is much more dangerous than covid which in comparison is a little cat pee.
More absurd diminishing/whataboutism.Whether you like it or not, the pollution is an epidemic, it kills 8 million people every year in the world, is much more dangerous than covid which in comparison is a little cat pee.
Covid is something that is easily treated by comparison to tackling pollution which requires a societal shift on virtually every single level.
If people, such as yourself, are willing to diminish, spread misinformation, moan, cry and whinge over a simple jab at the doctors, how can we expect people to do what is needed on their part to reduce their pollution footprint?
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