Ian Phillips
Volunteer Moderator
Lets keep this discussion centered on Vaccines please. NATO is not in way a topic related to vaccines.
General / Off-Topic The Covid vaccine must be mandatory ?
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Here's some general info on the Sputnik V vaccine from Russia.
Without a big human trial, nobody knows if it works, how efficacious it is, and what the safety problems might be.
Wouldn't suggest we use it without the information. And given the hostility to the West, what version of it they send over is going to be another concern. They have a well funded biowarfare unit running for decades, and this vaccine is made of a pair of live genetically modified viruses. It's just asking for trouble. Consider the idea that this is code they're sending. Would anybody here put unvetted Russian "antivirus code" on their hard drive?
In theory, it might be better than a traditional protein coat vaccine. Viral RNA stuck in the host genome will keep generating the corresponding protein from host cells. That could prolong the immune response much better than just a couple injections of the protein antigen. It could also give some autoimmune problems if we can't switch it off. Won't know till they do a trial. Nobody ever made a vaccine like this before.
'Without a big human trial, nobody knows if it works'... That is the long an the short of it... if nobody gave a crap about safety we would probably all be returning to normal right now. Unless the Russians have a time machine there is no reason they have a vaccine that doesn't turn you into a Chimpanzee (which is the sort of thing they are suggestion to their own people will happen with the Oxford Vaccine).
China is the only Country with a time advantage on this topic
From what I understand: The world standard, needs to meet phase 3 testing; before release to the general public. Phase 3 shows the 'long term' affects of said vaccine and takes a minimum of 1 year, to 3 years plus. I would say that for a country, to get around the time of the phase 3 testing, would be to offer the vaccine, to many (1,000s) of 'voluntary test subjects'. The line being: "We know it works and so if you want it, you have to be a test volunteer."
Back in the 1800s, fearmongers were suggesting the smallpox vaccine would turn people into cows. It's great to see that we have learned so much in 200 years!
Back in the 1800s, fearmongers were suggesting the smallpox vaccine would turn people into cows. It's great to see that we have learned so much in 200 years!
That's exactly the sort of thing a minotaur would say!
In all cases, the vaccine must be perfect and without adverse effects.
Almost all substances, especially medicines, have some adverse effects or at least the potential for some. I take medication that has side effects on a daily basis. I don't like them, but I like the potential they're intended to guard against even less.
Yes, but for the majority of drugs the side effects are indicated on the box.
I was talking about unknown side effects.
Nonsense. Recombinant adenovirus vaccines have been a thing for ages. Which is precisely why there are concerns over this one, because we know for a fact from experience that these kinds of vaccine can have problematic consequences when it comes to a virus where a heightened immune response can do more harm than good (like the failed HIV vaccine using this technique which made people MORE susceptible to catching it) What's not happened before is approving them for human rather than veterinary use. And that's likely to continue.
Thanks for the correction. Didn't know about animal vaccines.
Yeah, and there have been a bunch of trials of human ones. But there's why everyone's rightly concerned about this one, because we've tested a whole bunch extensively, and that's, as my Neurologist put it not too long ago when learning which drug I was given in an epilepsy trial I participated in a decade ago, "how we found out they don't work".
Regarding the subject of this thread, here is the latest survey in progress made in France.
Concerning the Pfizer vaccine, the High Authority for Health in France judges that "vaccination against Covid-19 should not be compulsory, neither for the general population, nor for health professionals".
"Indeed, within the framework of a schedule not well known of delivery of vaccine doses, and at this time of the lack of perspective on future vaccines as well as their ability to limit the contagion of the virus, this would not be justified ".
"Indeed, within the framework of a schedule not well known of delivery of vaccine doses, and at this time of the lack of perspective on future vaccines as well as their ability to limit the contagion of the virus, this would not be justified ".
Well from a practical standpoint, you can't give it to all if you don't have it.
I believe I mixed up the vaccines. Thought the Russians were doing mRNA instead of Pfizer. My bad.
They did recombinant RNA in an adenovirus, this is what happens when you're reading multiple tabs. Do you know if any mRNA ones have been used in animals directly?
There are just too many of them in development for me to keep straight.
Here's a bit about the Pfizer one.
There are people who are very fond of novelties, new technologies.
Let them test these new features for the benefit of the community.
Next you need to pay more TAX because you’re working from home 
amp.theguardian.com
Staff who work from home after pandemic 'should pay more tax' | Working from home | The Guardian
Deutsche Bank report argues that the proceeds should help lower-paid workers
amp.theguardian.com
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