General / Off-Topic The Covid vaccine must be mandatory ?

Looks like you would prioritize. In the U.S., forty percent of people in nursing homes (which is less than 1% of the population) died of Covid.
 
Looks like you would prioritize. In the U.S., forty percent of people in nursing homes (which is less than 1% of the population) died of Covid.
The 'pressure' to be at the front of the queue, is coming from all quarters. At the same time, supply is limited. Those that can afford to have it, will have it. The rest of us mortals, will have to wait in line. Until the supply is up to the job.

Me middle aged white male, equals, last place, in the queue.
 
Isn't it odd how the world seems to be split into 2 camps.

People who refuse to take the Vaccine

People who refuse to wait for the Vaccine.
 
Isn't it odd how the world seems to be split into 2 camps.

People who refuse to take the Vaccine

People who refuse to wait for the Vaccine.
Or, between: Those that live in fear. & Those that live in envy. :D

Think about it? I cannot name the 'camps', but look who is afraid and who is greedy?

This applies to most of us: If sitting in the waiting room and the nurse came in and apologised, because they only had one more dose left. Would you be stepping forward, your turn or not? Or would you be looking around, to see if there was someone else, more in need than you; that could have it, your dose or not? The rest are glued to their phones and wouldn't notice the nurse.
 
Isn't it odd how the world seems to be split into 2 camps.

People who refuse to take the Vaccine

People who refuse to wait for the Vaccine.
That last part is party due to the rampant mismanagement of the virus leading to mass infection/deaths (and to awesome new variants!), and now people are panicking about getting any sort of solution, not just for the virus but also their personal economics.

Here in Australia, we're taking our sweet time evaluating the vaccines. In fact, some immunologists here are saying we shouldn't use the AstraZeneca solution because it's not effective enough. That would really throw some cats in with the pigeons if our official evaluator came to the same conclusion.
 
The sad fact is that prisoners generate the government money by simply continuing to exist. Where as retired people do not.
Conservatively, prisons in the US produce about $9 billion in goods and services, but cost tax payers more than $74 billion (directly, not counting other side-effects of the system), per year. The only people profiting from prisons are those operating for-profit prisons, some lobbyists, and the odd politician in need of a favor. Overall, the system is a massive liability at all levels of society and government. Other nations surely have different prison economics, but I've never heard of a prison system that was profitable in the modern world...even forced labor camps where the goal was to extract as much work from prisoners in the process of murdering them were usually liabilities in the long run.

The reason for some health system putting prisoners in the same categories as others in congregate settings is because the wider risks are similar. Prisoners cannot isolate. Most prisoners are not serving long stints, meaning prisoners have high turnovers. More importantly, a huge number of people exposed to prisoners are not prisoners, they are staff.

From a public health perspective, you can either: stop taking them, release the ones that aren't contagious, and quarantine the rest; kill them all; or vaccinate them as promptly as practical. The first two aren't ever going to be politically viable, while providing just the minimum legal level of care means you have permanent clusters of infection that puts everyone even tangentially connected with prisons at risk, which in turn causes problems for everyone else.

I hear, that they also, get free condoms, to reduce the HIV thing.
A sensible precaution and very low hanging fruit in any rational cost/benefit analysis.

Isn't it odd how the world seems to be split into 2 camps.

People who refuse to take the Vaccine

People who refuse to wait for the Vaccine.
I'll take the vaccine as soon as I can reasonably get it, knowing that if I pass up my opportunity it may not come around again for a while, but also generally accepting of rational vaccine distribution schedules that correctly put me at the bottom of the list.

I am in a position where I can isolate indefinitely, if I have to, and the rest of the world, including the tiny fraction of it that I actually care about, is better off if someone, almost anyone, more likely to become a carrier, is vaccinated first.
 
Isn't it odd how the world seems to be split into 2 camps.

People who refuse to take the Vaccine

People who refuse to wait for the Vaccine.
I'm in a separate category all on my own, I really want the vaccine and I'm due it now because of what I do but I can't have it because I just had covid so there's a waiting period before I can have it.

The gods are toying with me.
 
I'm in a separate category all on my own, I really want the vaccine and I'm due it now because of what I do but I can't have it because I just had covid so there's a waiting period before I can have it.

The gods are toying with me.
Surely you have a good few months of immunity now, so you should think of the good of the nation and graciously go to the back of the queue ;)
 
Surely you have a good few months of immunity now, so you should think of the good of the nation and graciously go to the back of the queue ;)
Four to six months immunity, from what I've been told by the people who said there was no scientific basis for saying mask were effective until they started fining people for not wearing masks because the science says they are effective.

So on the whole I'd rather just have the jab.
 
Four to six months immunity, from what I've been told by the people who said there was no scientific basis for saying mask were effective until they started fining people for not wearing masks because the science says they are effective.

So on the whole I'd rather just have the jab.
I understand; that some people have caught it more than once. Maybe Robin, can or has enlightened us on that?
 
I understand; that some people have caught it more than once. Maybe Robin, can or has enlightened us on that?
Covid immunity: Can you catch it twice? - BBC News

Pinched from the BBC:

The immune system's memory is rather like our own - it remembers some infections clearly, but has a habit of forgetting others.
Measles is highly memorable - one bout should give lifelong immunity (as the weakened version in the MMR vaccine does). However, there are many others that are pretty forgettable. Children can get RSV (respiratory syncytial virus) multiple times in the same winter.
The new coronavirus, Sars-CoV-2, has not been around long enough to know how long immunity lasts, but there are six other human coronaviruses that can give a clue.
Four produce the symptoms of the common cold and immunity is short-lived. Studies showed some patients could be re-infected within a year.
Research at King's College London also suggested levels of antibodies that kill coronavirus waned over the three month study.
But even if antibodies disappear, then the cells that manufacture them, called B cells, may still be around. B cells for Spanish Flu have been found in people 90 years after that pandemic.
If the same is true with Covid, then a second infection would be milder than the first.
It is also not understood what happens to T cells in the long term. But T cells against the original Sars (Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome) have been found 17 years later.
 
Prisoners should rationally be some of the first groups vaccinated because prisons are a dangerous reservoir and major exposure risk for the communities they are part of.

Your parents, statistically speaking, are probably able to isolate better, and thus less of a risk, to themselves and others. The epidemiology favors vaccinating prisons early.
Yes already that prisons are a nest of snakes, useless in addition to having Covid-positive snakes. :)

🦠 🦠 🦠 🦠 🦠 🦠 😷
 
I haven't been following this thread, sorry if this is OT (didn't want to open a new one for it).
I just lost an old friend to covid-19. He was someone my age (64) and got it from his son who has since recovered from it. Most likely during the Christmas holidays.

I'm not asking for sympathy (which wouldn't be necessary, we haven't been in contact for a while). I just want to know one thing: What is going on with all these corona or pandemic deniers? We even have the case of a politician from an ultra-right party who was hit by the virus himself and barely survived. And yet he denies that it is a pandemic - even though he now recognises the danger of the virus.

I just want to understand. After all, these people are quite numerous and I don't want to make it too easy for myself and label them all as idiots and cranks straight away. But what is the content of their conspiracy ideas, there must be some viable thought?

To be quite honest, all these people scare me more than the virus itself. It feels to me like a never-ending stream of 'zombies in mind', just scary. That's why I simply have to understand in order to sleep better again.

If anyone knows such people and has been able to talk to them, or maybe is even one of them: What is it that drives all these people?
 
From what I've seen, many of these conspiracy theories don't necessarily deny covid, but ascribe it to being the creation of some shadowy 'elite' for some nefarious scheme (that with an ounce of common sense and knowledge are obviously complete rubbish). There is often a grain of truth that gets distorted to make something innocent appear sinister.

For example, there is the whole 'Great Reset' thing. Essentially a bunch of esteemed economists said something along the lines of 'given the current situation and how it's shown that we can make big changes if we really have to, it would seem like a good idea to use this opportunity to rebuild the economy in a greener more sustainable way'. Sounds quite a reasonable proposal to me. Unfortunately the conspiracy theorists translate this into 'The global financial elites released covid to bring about the New World Order which will be a Marxist Totalitarian state'.

Other than that it seems to be a distrust of government and authority in general.
 
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