The cult of the Space Legs

[Good Death]

spess legz plz

Watch out for the worm hole. Is that a trans with man hands? I'm scared! Why are ruining my space legs?

 

[Devari]

He's very obviously referring to the opinion bit of your post:



Weird that.

I see, so you're somehow suggesting that we're actually getting all of those immersive gameplay features Braben originally described?

I can predict with nearly 100% certainty that is not going to happen. I say nearly 100% because I suppose it's possible that Braben is suddenly abducted by Thargoids and required to produce a proper game but otherwise I just don't see it happening.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Its already been quoted in this very thread, but there is a video of David Braben outlining the kickstarter, and he clearly says walking around is part of the games future. If you are really pushed for time or short on patience skip to ~03:01 ;-)

I've seen the video lots of times. It's on my blog along with many other things Frontier have said will be in the game (Edit: or might be in the game). My issue is not with the video but with OP's comment,

Keep in mind that we're never getting anything even remotely close to this type of gameplay.

That's not fact, it's opinion.

I see, so you're somehow suggesting that we're actually getting all of those immersive gameplay features Braben originally described?


I can predict with nearly 100% certainty that is not going to happen. I say nearly 100% because I suppose it's possible that Braben is suddenly abducted by Thargoids and required to produce a proper game but otherwise I just don't see it happening.

Im not sure whether to laugh of cry that someone ardantly defending the shardfest that is SC should be making this comment.


Either way it's opinion not fact until Spacelegs arrives (which it 100% will which I can predict with 100% certainty. See I can play too!)

 

[Devari]

I've seen the video lots of times. It's on my blog along with many other things Frontier have said will be in the game. My issue is not with the video but with OP's comment,

That's not fact, it's opinion.

An opinion that is based on an objective pattern of behavior is an entirely valid way of predicting future events. Calling it an "opinion" doesn't somehow invalidate the statement I've made when it's clearly based on a very objective reality that can be easily understood by anyone looking at the situation. I made a very clear statement based on consistently observable behavior from FD over the past 3.5 years.

Right now you are basically sounding exactly like this:

Im not sure whether to laugh of cry that someone ardantly defending the shardfest that is SC should be making this comment.

Again with the SC references. Do you even understand the various criticisms I've directed towards SC's recent behavior and funding model? I've made some very prominent threads and posts on the SC forums, but you apparently don't know about any of those.

Either way it's opinion not fact until Spacelegs arrives, which it 100% will which I can predict with 100% certainty. (See I can play too!)

Space legs is never going to arrive in the form Braben originally described. We have 3.5 years of Elite development that should be clearly telling you that. At best we might get a rudimentary version of space legs but even that it not likely to happen any time "soon" according to FD.

 

[Barking_Mad]

An "opinion" that is based on an objective pattern of behavior is an entirely valid way of predicting future events. Calling it an "opinion" doesn't mean it isn't based on a very objective reality that can be easily understood by anyone looking at the situation. I made a very clear statement based on consistently observable behavior from FD over the past 3.5 years.

Given the game has had many parts of it changed and re-worked then predicting anything with Elite is still you just giving your opinion. Dance around it how you like. I dont care that you have an opinion. I do care when I have to read subjective nonsense masquerading as 'fact'.

Again with the SC references. Do you even understand the various criticisms I've levelled against SC's recent behavior and funding model on the SC forums?

So you have a habit of intertwining the two on here with some unadulterated laughable rubbish, yet now you cry foul?. Example A

With Star Citizen, we know where the money has gone so far. The game is extremely detailed and expensive to produce, both from a technical perspective and from the level of detail with the game content itself, with extremely detailed ship models, high-quality concept art, live-actor motion capture, professional voice acting and other high-quality AAA game features including a fps game perspective. We know that the basic game features are all achievable and working on a basic level in terms of their Alpha 3.0 demo at Gamescon so they have made significant progress on their development, even though the persistent universe itself is around 1-2 years from launch.

With Elite Dangerous, we don't really have any of these things. The scale and scope of the game is nowhere near Star Citizen in terms of detail, Elite relies heavily on procedural generation for game assets and the games uses the much more limited P2P connections instead of a central server. There is almost no "custom" work done with almost of the assets generated by procedural generation, even for unique permit-locked systems. Earth and Mars still have standard Coriolis/Orbis/Ocellus starports in orbit, there is nothing "unique" to see there at all.

You then said:

Space legs is never going to arrive in the form Braben originally described. We have 3.5 years of Elite development that should be clearly telling you that. At best we might get a rudimentary version of space legs but even that it not likely to happen any time "soon" according to FD.

What does 3.5 years of Elite have to do with anything, other than your subjective. non-industry view that it should have so much more than it already has? We can sit here and chew on which features we do and dont like, what FDev got wrong and right - but the fact remains there's a lot of stuff gone into just 3.5 years and an awful lot of work gone into the development of the game that we both will never understand or appreciate. Rockstar took 5 years on GTA V and they'd already made several versions of the 'same' game.

Will spacelegs arrive soon? I'd say not. Does it bother me? Not particularly. There's still lots tonnes of stuff they can and hopefully will add before (and if) it arrives.

 

[Devari]

Given the game has had many parts of it changed and re-worked then predicting anything with Elite is still you just giving your opinion. Dance around it how you like. I dont care that you have an opinion. I do care when I have to read subjective nonsense masquerading as 'fact'.

Calling an objectively supported statement an "opinion" does not instantly invalidate it. Sorry, that's not how a coherent argument works.

So you have a habit of intertwining the two on here with some unadulterated laughable rubbish, yet now you cry foul?. Example A

So your argument is simply because I started a thread nearly 2 years ago where I made comparisons between Elite and Star Citizen's funding models, that all I have done since then is "defend SC"? You obviously haven't read anything I've posted on the SC forums where I have been highly critical of certain aspects of their development and funding model.

Sorry nice try, but no.

What does 3.5 years of Elite have to do with anything

I'll let you explain that to me. You can tell me what we've seen from the past 3.5 years of Elite development. Whether you can actually describe the development process in a remotely objectively manner will determine whether you can participate in an appropriate discussion on the topic.

I'll get some popcorn. This should be good.

 

[bigity]

Don't care to have 'space legs', never did. It would be nice to be able to move a camera around the inside of the ships though.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Calling an objectively supported statement an "opinion" does not instantly invalidate it. Sorry, that's not how a coherent argument works.

Your views on what it might be like are an opinion based on some artwork and some comments from David Braben. That's fine, you're entitled to it. It's not "100%" though.

So your argument is simply because I started a thread nearly 2 years ago where I made comparisons between Elite and Star Citizen's funding models, that all I have done since then is "defend SC"? You obviously haven't read anything I've posted on the SC forums where I have been highly critical of certain aspects of their development and funding model.

Sorry nice try, but no.

You're happy to drag up DB's comments and some artwork from years ago so I thought I'd do the same. Problem? But to be clear, you do defend SC and your facts (as above and elsewhere) have proven to be wrong. Yet here you are stating more opinion as fact. Reflect perhaps?

I'll let you explain that to me.

I just did.

You can tell me what we've seen from the past 3.5 years of Elite development. Whether you can actually describe the development process in a remotely objectively manner will determine whether you can participate in an appropriate discussion on the topic. I'll get some popcorn. This should be good.

Everything is in the game but if you need a list. What I think of the game is neither here nor there and I'm not the one making assertions about it.

 

[Nomadski]

I've said this before, the only thing that appeals with space legs, is being able to get up, exit the ship to perform some kind of space walk ship repair. The idea of doing that in the deepest black with an earthlike somewhere in the background, managing oxygen levels with ship repair, and seeing the ship from a whole new perspective is genuinely extremely appealing to me in a Gravity kind of way.

There has to be direct gameplay attachment to the feature like above, with some kind of peril attached, or it is pointless.

Walking around stations? Get a stopwatch and play X Rebirth and see how quickly you get bored having to get missions from station NPCs rather than from the on board computer.

 

[Kyokushin]

Space Legs - only for walk around a ship, on space station, or empty planet, or for spacewalk, even without any additional content will add massive immersion and content by itselv.

People are dreaming about exploring a strange new worlds in the human body, and now they are feeling they are 'starship', not 'human'. To feel as a human you need to get off from the chair, open the doors, then walk down through the stairs to feel a sand below your feets.

 

[OnTheMinute]

I suspect the op is just trolling.

I can see how I may be coming off as a troll. I do have some real questions because I really do want to understand what you guys want. If one of you leggers would be so kind as to describe space legs for me I would really appreciate it. So I request docking and land on a pad. Then what? How about my ship? I’m in supercruise and I decide to get up. What would I do?

 

[Devari]

Your views on what it might be like are an opinion based on some artwork and some comments from David Braben. That's fine, you're entitled to it. It's not "100%" though.

Braben told us what he planned to develop for Elite. Those features have not been developed. That is an objectively observable fact.

You're happy to drag up DB's comments and some artwork from years ago so I thought I'd do the same. Problem? But to be clear, you do defend SC and your facts (as above and elsewhere) have proven to be wrong. Yet here you are stating more opinion as fact. Reflect perhaps?

Sorry but the thread you've linked has nothing to do with "defending" SC. That was never the point of that thread and SC was only used as a basis for comparison, not as some sort of "defence" of the game. The thread was very clearly focused on a specific criticism of how FD has been using Elite revenue. If you can't understand the difference you need to go back and actually read it.

I just did.

No you really didn't because you claimed there's "a lot of stuff gone into 3.5 years" as if FD have somehow given us a significant amount of gameplay features or content. They haven't. In fact, they haven't even given us what they told us they were originally working on.

Everything is in the game but if you need a list. What I think of the game is neither here nor there and I'm not the one making assertions about it.

Sorry, how is "everything" in the game when we are clearly missing core features that Braben and the dev team described for the gameplay?

That is such a ludicrous statement that you're either trolling or you honestly have no idea how many features are currently missing from Braben's original description of the planned game development.

 

[OnTheMinute]

I've said this before, the only thing that appeals with space legs, is being able to get up, exit the ship to perform some kind of space walk ship repair. The idea of doing that in the deepest black with an earthlike somewhere in the background, managing oxygen levels with ship repair, and seeing the ship from a whole new perspective is genuinely extremely appealing to me in a Gravity kind of way.

There has to be direct gameplay attachment to the feature like above, with some kind of peril attached, or it is pointless.

Walking around stations? Get a stopwatch and play X Rebirth and see how quickly you get bored having to get missions from station NPCs rather than from the on board computer.

I love space engineers! I always hoped it would have came to the consoles. I still play it

 

[cheesenbiscuits]

There’s a ton of players out there barking and chasing after the space legs car. Every time I see a post about it I can’t help but imagine frontier putting off important things and finally saying to hell with it and quickly creating something that will allow you to catch the space legs car so they can stand there and watch all of you look at the coffee maker and in unison abandon the space legs cult and create the let me make a cup of coffee cult which will eventually turn into the why isn’t frontier focusing on the important stuff cult.

I try to understand why anyone wants to log into the game and get up from their seat and go look at some panels or take a closer look at the wires over there. Now if you guys seriously think they are going to create a brand new games worth of content and work just so you can walk around stations and instead of accepting missions from the cockpit having to take a train and navigate endless routes just to talk to an npc and turn around and walk back to your ship to fly off then you are not in touch with the reality of the game.

I’m starting a new cult. It’s called the I really hope frontier is focusing on the real issues and not space legs cult. Feel free to join. The only requirement is that you’re not a barking lunatic chasing disembodied legs in space.

I've played many games,some of them include walking,some flying,some driving.
A surprisingly large amount include all three.
I wholeheartedly believe Elite would benefit from space legs and i'm under the impression the dev team agree.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Braben told us what he planned to develop for Elite. Those features have not been developed. That is an objectively observable fact.

Well it's a fact, but not a very useful one without context. Firstly he didn't say when Space-legs would appear so you're applying a date you decide is "too long" and using it as "it wont happen like a,b,c". Until it arrives or Frontier say "we're not doing spacelegs" then it's neither here nor there. Many FPS games take much more than 3.5 years to develop so even if Frontier didn't have the task of trying to do lots of other things at the same time and simply decided to stop development 3.5 years ago and make spacelegs then that length of time is relevant to very little.

Sorry but the thread you've linked has nothing to do with "defending" SC. That was never the point of that thread and SC was only used as a basis for comparison, not as some sort of "defence" of the game. The thread was very clearly focused on a specific criticism of how FD has been using Elite revenue. If you can't understand the difference you need to go back and actually read it.

The quality of your comments on that thread said it all.

No you really didn't because you claimed there's "a lot of stuff gone into 3.5 years" as if FD have somehow given us a significant amount of gameplay features or content. They haven't. In fact, they haven't even given us what they told us they were originally working on.

And some of it might or might not still appear. I'm being pragmatic. Some of those original ideas were great, some of it was in my opinion great when written down but like many games ideas would have been worse if implemented. If it was that easy a AAA company would have made a similar game and put all those things in that you think should be in the game by now. But they haven't. Now, what does that tell you?

Sorry, how is "everything" in the game when we are clearly missing core features that Braben and the dev team described for the gameplay? That is such a ludicrous statement that you're either trolling or you honestly have no idea how many features are currently missing from Braben's original description of the planned game development.

You misunderstand. You wanted to know what had gone into 3.5 years of development. I replied "Everything is in the game" i.e. everything from those 3.5 years is in the game to see. If you dont like it, well that's fine. It's your opinion after all.

 

[lovely lovely]

If you want legs then open the door or get a tread mill

 

[askavir]

If you want legs then open the door or get a tread mill

Do you jump out the window when you want to fly?

 

[Nomadski]

I love space engineers! I always hoped it would have came to the consoles. I still play it

I would definitely hope its implementation would be more Gravity than Space Engineers...

 

[Devari]

Well it's a fact, but not a very useful one without context.

Sorry but all of that "context" you're trying to come up with is simply making thin excuses for FD's behavior. They have no valid excuse to underdevelop Elite to the level they've been doing since 2.0 launched. It was a deliberate decision by Braben and FD to prioritize other games at the expense of Elite development.

The quality of your comments on that thread said it all.

I see, so you go from criticising a well-supported statement I made for being an "opinion" and then you come up with a meaningless criticism based on the "quality" of my comments in a thread that is nearly 2 years old?

And some of it might or might not still appear.

Right, and Braben might be abducted by Thargoids. It could totally still happen.

You misunderstand. You wanted to know what had gone into 3.5 years of development. I replied "Everything is in the game" i.e. everything from those 3.5 years is in the game to see. If you dont like it, well that's fine. It's your opinion after all.

Missing features are not an "opinion". They're literally missing from the game.

 

[Ian Phillips]

Everyone.

Personal opinions are fine, but keep your opinions of other posters to yourself please.