The Dark Wheel and Sol Conspiracy

raxxla is infinitely more valuable as a thing to-find than something that is found.

nobody will find it until fdev is ready to shut the doors on this game.
Unless it's a gateway to other galaxies, then finding it becomes just the beginning of another exploration boom.

But I don't think Frontier would want it found until there's significant more development in the game. Having to work through TDW expansions to get a clue makes sure it takes a long time.
 
you make TTW sound like an army under one Cmdr. Its not. A lot of us are aligned elsewhere, have our own Squadrons and affiliations...but we are united in the search for the DW & Raxxla (and at the time were seriously worried about what was happening to the lore as GalNet was on strike).

I joined partially just to show support for lore based storylines, partially for a reason to play for something to do...and theres always that 'you never know' thought. Its completely flexible what you do and how much you do.

The premise is that the DW may be a significant faction in game over all the others and may hold the permit to certain systems. More likely it will prove not to be and has already been demonstrated once with a 'normal' 20LY expansion attempt that Sol is not open. Personally dint see any reason why it would be, Sol has no lore connection to the DW for me, but its an experiment. Very soon the 10LY expansion attempt will try. Science doesnt care what the outcome is as long as theres a measurable outcome. There will be either way.

The 2nd premise is that the DW may hold the permit for another system that is lore connected. As an idea it has merit, as a practical thing expecting the playerbase to come to this conclusion and actually do this probably means it is not the answer originally intended by Frontier...but they might have retconned it to be the answer, which is possible, not likely I grant you, but its possible.

The final premise, for me anyway, is to get DW into 50 systems. This can be ignored by everyone or could lead to any number of DW stories (without leading to Raxxla). Remember we had no GalNet and no CGs at the time, how could we show Frontier we cared in a positive way instead of moaning?

So to put your mind at rest, there is a 0.00 - 0.01% chance of DW getting into Sol in the first place, and a 0.001 - 0.001% chance of them getting the other permit unlock either.....but you never know :)
 
Unless it's a gateway to other galaxies, then finding it becomes just the beginning of another exploration boom.

But I don't think Frontier would want it found until there's significant more development in the game. Having to work through TDW expansions to get a clue makes sure it takes a long time.

While i have no doubt the stellar forge is capable of generating an infinite variety of galaxies and that the game could transfer you to them with very little change in the game client and servers ... I dont think fdev knows how to leverage that into a positive aspect of the game rather than a further negative one.

The game so far has not leveraged the billions of systems it already has into a positive. It actually does more negative currently than positive. When was the last time we had a thread talking about how fun it was to travel to distant systems? How fun it was to see a series of loading screens making 10+ jumps in a row. How fun unpopulated systems are. It exposes how so much of the gameplay depends on hand-crafted content rather than procedural. How so many game mechanics depend on hand crafted situations than procedural. We already have a game that is an inch deep and ly's across, adding additional galaxies of just empty useless systems only exasperates that issue.

Opening up to other galaxies can't be done until those problems are solved within the current one or all they'll do is increase everything that is negative about this game and none of the positive. You think you may want to go where no one has gone before...but i've been to over 20,000 systems and almost all of them suck.
 
To be fair, I think that to fully discard the possibility, you'd need to fill every other possible expansion from Alpha Centauri (including the expanded 40 ly cube). I remember Frontier patch notes from back then mentioning permit systems being something along "less likely" to be expanded into, not flat out impossible to. But special systems like Sol or Shinrarta do seem to have another layer of bgs restrictions. Both don't have conflicts, but Sol still shows up as a populated system PP-wise. Shinrarta goes even further by being controlled by a special faction that can't even be BGS-interacted at all, and does not show up as a populated system for PP.
permit locked systems are forbidden for expansion into regardless in modern times too....
 
While i have no doubt the stellar forge is capable of generating an infinite variety of galaxies and that the game could transfer you to them with very little change in the game client and servers ... I dont think fdev knows how to leverage that into a positive aspect of the game rather than a further negative one.

The game so far has not leveraged the billions of systems it already has into a positive. It actually does more negative currently than positive. When was the last time we had a thread talking about how fun it was to travel to distant systems? How fun it was to see a series of loading screens making 10+ jumps in a row. How fun unpopulated systems are. It exposes how so much of the gameplay depends on hand-crafted content rather than procedural. How so many game mechanics depend on hand crafted situations than procedural. We already have a game that is an inch deep and ly's across, adding additional galaxies of just empty useless systems only exasperates that issue.

Opening up to other galaxies can't be done until those problems are solved within the current one or all they'll do is increase everything that is negative about this game and none of the positive. You think you may want to go where no one has gone before...but i've been to over 20,000 systems and almost all of them suck.

For a long time I've felt that ED is not a Space or Flight Sim but a Political PowerPlay Sim. Imagine if factions were motivated to leave the bubble and colonize their own systems in far away sectors. It would quickly become a race of which Factions could amass a fleet and establish their own Empire. Now exploration would always have that added danger of is this sector inhabited?
 
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When The Pilot made his redaction video I strongly considered joining and helping the initiative. The fear that I may miss out on any reward Fdev may hand out to all those CMDRs was my main motivation.

But the more research I did and continue to do compels me to believe Raxxla is not in Sol and this is a work but may still benefit us.

My prevailing belief at the moment is that Fdev has relocated Raxxla and disclosed enough intel to motivate Kai to start this initiative.
If this is true then I believe our best hopes are in whatever clue is to be discovered by the "Turning of the Wheel".
If this is not true then I believe Raxxla is still out there completely undisclosed and buried beneath the rumors and myths
no one said anything about raxxla being in sol. Kai made it clear that the goal of getting DW to sol is to possibly unlock another step or clue to find raxxlas location. This has been pointed out to you several times this thread, yet you keep harping on with personal attacks and baseless claims.

Also, aren't you PandaTheGray from xbox? Funny because I remeber you from last week CG when everyone in chat was basically ripping on you for being such a clown (albeit for totally different reasons)
 
I believe the entire "Turning the Wheel" initiative is a work created or, at the very least, endorsed by Fdev. I will provide my two main thought lines for this assumption as well as a RP perspective if that entertains you.

FIrstly, the assumption that Raxxla must be in Sol because it was first 'honked' and unnoticed by a CMDR in 2015.
While this may seem like a valid assertion at first glance, I find it easily debatable once you familiarize yourself with the galaxy and ED's inner workings. The odds of the first CMDR flying through our home system, giving it a quick scan and leaving without a second glance or further investigation are astronomical at best. It may not be difficult to get your permit to Sol but it's not a quick errand. I find it highly unlikely that the first CMDR to scan Sol was a hapless unknowing pilot just strolling through. Also, the question must be asked; How many systems were first discovered in 2015? That number but also be astronomical. Now if there were a database or a way to track all systems discovered in 2015 I believe that would be a much more feasible endeavor towards finding the location of Raxxla.

Secondly, it's too obvious.
There has never been so much attention to any one piece of content to come from the ED universe. There have been several personalities in the ED universe that have never gained such popularity as Kai Zen. Several CMDRs have publicly attempted and plead for any response from Fdev, often met with little to no such attention. So why in recent weeks does it seem that Fdev is almost, if not, directly answering and communicating with Kai Zen publicly via Q&A streams? The simple fact that he can propose a question on Elite Week and then get an almost direct answer in the subsequent Fdev Q&A is obvious favoritism towards the creator. Admittedly this perplexes me to some extent as other CMDRs often featured on Elite Week have also proposed questions that have been left unanswered by Fdev.

Therefore, I believe Kai Zen is either an Fdev plant brought into the player community to begin this initiative or I believe he has been privilege to some information that we don't have and is basing his assertions on this. Either way I believe Fdev's motive is to initiate one of the largest player coordinated in-game events in all of gaming history.

While these would be great achievements for some, I can't help but feel like either result is not an achievement for the general player population. If this is a work and Raxxla is not in Sol then we're all left wondering, "what now?". If Raxxla is in Sol, would it's discovery not be bittersweet as we still have so much of the galaxy left unexplored and pristine with no mystery or unknown to solve? My unpopular opinion of ED is that it is not a Space Sim but a player based BGS. Let's face it, it's a game and we're not out here discovering and studying astronomical anomalies. ED is a fantastic flight model but I feel it's the communities we create and how they interact that makes the story of ED. If you were to record Player Factions and their interactions with each other, it could easily be presented as compelling and entertaining content.

Ok so what happens if The Dark Wheel expands into Sol and Raxxla is not discovered, no harm right? We'll regroup, assess and come up with a new plan to keep searching elsewhere. Wrong! Y'all just handed Kai Zen a position in our home system to do as he sees fit. He may be a swell guy now but no one CMDR has had the ambition or ego to attempt such a feat in over 5 years! As it stands now Kai Zen is arguably the most powerful CMDR in our universe, once he holds control over Sol I don't think there's an argument for the contrary. The Dark Wheel can not be unturned, once that faction is given a position in Sol it will take several cycles of coordinated BGS and many wars to even attempt such a thing. And all subsequent efforts will just exacerbate the state of our home system to turmoil for several cycles. How badly do you want to find Raxxla? Is it worth risking the peace of our home system?
1. I'm a little confused here how RULE2 of the moderation rules are meant to work if some rando dude making an entire thread with my name a dozen times and all sorts of allegations in the original post is OK? But since the forum moderators seem to feel this is permissible I guess I should clarify the many glaringly false statements in it.

"I believe the entire "Turning the Wheel" initiative is a work created or, at the very least, endorsed by Fdev."

This is absolutely false. Fdev did not create this project nor have they shown it much support at all.

"FIrstly, the assumption that Raxxla must be in Sol because it was first 'honked' and unnoticed by a CMDR in 2015."

This project never included ANY ASSUMPTION that Raxxla must be in Sol. If I had to bet money now on any system that Raxxla is in it would probably be Polaris (which is permit locked). I have NEVER believed that Raxxla is in Sol. I'm confused as to where you spun this little bit of nonsense from. The reason why one of the goals was to go to Sol was that maybe it would trigger some permit to be issued or some special mission to become available from TDW.

While this may seem like a valid assertion at first glance, I find it easily debatable once you familiarize yourself with the galaxy and ED's inner workings. The odds of the first CMDR flying through our home system, giving it a quick scan and leaving without a second glance or further investigation are astronomical at best. It may not be difficult to get your permit to Sol but it's not a quick errand. I find it highly unlikely that the first CMDR to scan Sol was a hapless unknowing pilot just strolling through. Also, the question must be asked; How many systems were first discovered in 2015? That number but also be astronomical. Now if there were a database or a way to track all systems discovered in 2015 I believe that would be a much more feasible endeavor towards finding the location of Raxxla.

This is all complete nonsense. You are conflating multiple ideas here that do not belong together. The legend of "The CMDR who honked in a system that RAXXLA was in but didn't notice it and left" actually comes from a story that is retold by multiple commanders including Ben Moss Woodward of Lave Radio and CMDR Ascorbius. It is credited to a statement made YEARS AGO by Michael Brooks at a live meeting but not recorded because it was said offhandedly with no audio/video record. And I have heard multiple versions of it. One version was just "A CMDR has been in the same system as Raxxla" This could be true for MANY reasons. It could be, for example on Lave 2 (which is permit locked) or in Alpha Centauri but several hours on the other side of Hutton and nobody got close or it could be at a specific location that isn't labeled so people fly right by... the whole "honk and left" thing may just be a game of telephone where an unrecorded statement made years ago at an event where people were drinking could easily take on extra words or slants over time. Sadly while I ABSOLUTELY believe that both Ben and Scorb are truthful people I can't accept this nebulous of a statement without a recording because it could have been made with SEVERAL different exact wordings and MB was known to troll people by telling the truth but in a cryptic way that would lead people to jump to the wrong conclusion. NONE OF THIS mythos has ANYTHING to do with Sol whatsoever.

"There has never been so much attention to any one piece of content to come from the ED universe. There have been several personalities in the ED universe that have never gained such popularity as Kai Zen. Several CMDRs have publicly attempted and plead for any response from Fdev, often met with little to no such attention. So why in recent weeks does it seem that Fdev is almost, if not, directly answering and communicating with Kai Zen publicly via Q&A streams? The simple fact that he can propose a question on Elite Week and then get an almost direct answer in the subsequent Fdev Q&A is obvious favoritism towards the creator. Admittedly this perplexes me to some extent as other CMDRs often featured on Elite Week have also proposed questions that have been left unanswered by Fdev."

Umm... What? You seem to think I'm some kind of celebrity or something? I do a Podcast and Youtube/Twitch show about Elite but as to your delusions about me having some mythical powers I can assure you that this is not the case. I am, in the large picture of things a very small fish in a fairly small pond. Your opinion that FDEV has some special love for me is, I can assure you, not correct.

OK, I'm actually going to quit and not go line by line on this breakdown as it's all just so far off that it's a waste of time to do.

I do not work for FDEV.

I have no delusions of ruling over Sol or whatever... To be clear. ---IF--- TDW (A non player faction) were to move into Sol system that would be awesome and I'd be searching everywhere for a clue that might get unlocked...

BUT...

1. It is far more likely that TDW will not expand into Sol than it is that they will.

2. I DO NOT OWN TDW faction. It is a NON PLAYER FACTION which means that it is owned by FDEV and they can use it to further their story however they like. I own TDW no more than you do bro.

3. I would bet any amount of money that there is a lock such that NOBODY could ever take ownership of Sol from the Federation. it would just make no sense to be other unless Fdev were to roll out some massive storyline where the Empire or Alliance took over or the Thargoids burned the bubble or some other such thing. That would be a storyline that FDEV would control and never something that a group of players could just stumble upon.

So in short, While I have had multiple people join our discord and the project today citing this thread and saying it has them excited I feel the need to point out that this entire original post and much of your subsequent posts are just completely filled with false statements, bad guesses and misinformation.

That said, you go on believing whatever you want as I'm sure this will do nothing to convince you that I'm not an FDEV employee.
 
I'm not sayin all that. But I suspect he knows more about Raxxla than he's telling us
no one said anything about raxxla being in sol. Kai made it clear that the goal of getting DW to sol is to possibly unlock another step or clue to find raxxlas location. This has been pointed out to you several times this thread, yet you keep harping on with personal attacks and baseless claims.

Also, aren't you PandaTheGray from xbox? Funny because I remeber you from last week CG when everyone in chat was basically ripping on you for being such a clown (albeit for totally different reasons)
One in the same.
 
1. I'm a little confused here how RULE2 of the moderation rules are meant to work if some rando dude making an entire thread with my name a dozen times and all sorts of allegations in the original post is OK? But since the forum moderators seem to feel this is permissible I guess I should clarify the many glaringly false statements in it.

"I believe the entire "Turning the Wheel" initiative is a work created or, at the very least, endorsed by Fdev."

This is absolutely false. Fdev did not create this project nor have they shown it much support at all.

"FIrstly, the assumption that Raxxla must be in Sol because it was first 'honked' and unnoticed by a CMDR in 2015."

This project never included ANY ASSUMPTION that Raxxla must be in Sol. If I had to bet money now on any system that Raxxla is in it would probably be Polaris (which is permit locked). I have NEVER believed that Raxxla is in Sol. I'm confused as to where you spun this little bit of nonsense from. The reason why one of the goals was to go to Sol was that maybe it would trigger some permit to be issued or some special mission to become available from TDW.

While this may seem like a valid assertion at first glance, I find it easily debatable once you familiarize yourself with the galaxy and ED's inner workings. The odds of the first CMDR flying through our home system, giving it a quick scan and leaving without a second glance or further investigation are astronomical at best. It may not be difficult to get your permit to Sol but it's not a quick errand. I find it highly unlikely that the first CMDR to scan Sol was a hapless unknowing pilot just strolling through. Also, the question must be asked; How many systems were first discovered in 2015? That number but also be astronomical. Now if there were a database or a way to track all systems discovered in 2015 I believe that would be a much more feasible endeavor towards finding the location of Raxxla.

This is all complete nonsense. You are conflating multiple ideas here that do not belong together. The legend of "The CMDR who honked in a system that RAXXLA was in but didn't notice it and left" actually comes from a story that is retold by multiple commanders including Ben Moss Woodward of Lave Radio and CMDR Ascorbius. It is credited to a statement made YEARS AGO by Michael Brooks at a live meeting but not recorded because it was said offhandedly with no audio/video record. And I have heard multiple versions of it. One version was just "A CMDR has been in the same system as Raxxla" This could be true for MANY reasons. It could be, for example on Lave 2 (which is permit locked) or in Alpha Centauri but several hours on the other side of Hutton and nobody got close or it could be at a specific location that isn't labeled so people fly right by... the whole "honk and left" thing may just be a game of telephone where an unrecorded statement made years ago at an event where people were drinking could easily take on extra words or slants over time. Sadly while I ABSOLUTELY believe that both Ben and Scorb are truthful people I can't accept this nebulous of a statement without a recording because it could have been made with SEVERAL different exact wordings and MB was known to troll people by telling the truth but in a cryptic way that would lead people to jump to the wrong conclusion. NONE OF THIS mythos has ANYTHING to do with Sol whatsoever.

"There has never been so much attention to any one piece of content to come from the ED universe. There have been several personalities in the ED universe that have never gained such popularity as Kai Zen. Several CMDRs have publicly attempted and plead for any response from Fdev, often met with little to no such attention. So why in recent weeks does it seem that Fdev is almost, if not, directly answering and communicating with Kai Zen publicly via Q&A streams? The simple fact that he can propose a question on Elite Week and then get an almost direct answer in the subsequent Fdev Q&A is obvious favoritism towards the creator. Admittedly this perplexes me to some extent as other CMDRs often featured on Elite Week have also proposed questions that have been left unanswered by Fdev."

Umm... What? You seem to think I'm some kind of celebrity or something? I do a Podcast and Youtube/Twitch show about Elite but as to your delusions about me having some mythical powers I can assure you that this is not the case. I am, in the large picture of things a very small fish in a fairly small pond. Your opinion that FDEV has some special love for me is, I can assure you, not correct.

OK, I'm actually going to quit and not go line by line on this breakdown as it's all just so far off that it's a waste of time to do.

I do not work for FDEV.

I have no delusions of ruling over Sol or whatever... To be clear. ---IF--- TDW (A non player faction) were to move into Sol system that would be awesome and I'd be searching everywhere for a clue that might get unlocked...

BUT...

1. It is far more likely that TDW will not expand into Sol than it is that they will.

2. I DO NOT OWN TDW faction. It is a NON PLAYER FACTION which means that it is owned by FDEV and they can use it to further their story however they like. I own TDW no more than you do bro.

3. I would bet any amount of money that there is a lock such that NOBODY could ever take ownership of Sol from the Federation. it would just make no sense to be other unless Fdev were to roll out some massive storyline where the Empire or Alliance took over or the Thargoids burned the bubble or some other such thing. That would be a storyline that FDEV would control and never something that a group of players could just stumble upon.

So in short, While I have had multiple people join our discord and the project today citing this thread and saying it has them excited I feel the need to point out that this entire original post and much of your subsequent posts are just completely filled with false statements, bad guesses and misinformation.

That said, you go on believing whatever you want as I'm sure this will do nothing to convince you that I'm not an FDEV employee.
I apologize. This was not my intent. I thought this whole conversation was light-hearted and a fun way to look at alternatives.

I understand that I made the mistake of naming you or anyone else.
 
Have you bothered to jump into the Discord? Have you joined us in out discussions where we theorize what, where and how to Raxxla?
frfr I don't like Discord and the forums can be a bit toxic if you jump into a conversation where your opinion is the minority so I thought this was a different way of having a parallel conversation with a different tone.
 
frfr I don't like Discord and the forums can be a bit toxic if you jump into a conversation where your opinion is the minority so I thought this was a different way of having a parallel conversation with a different tone.
Looks at the original post with my name appearing a dozen times and various accusations... looks at this post about the forums being toxic.... looks back at original post of this thread... bruh, puff puff pass. share that good weed already...
 
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