Engineers The Engineers is turning into a deja vu for me

[JughedJones]

No need to be surprised. FD has released grind-feature after grind-feature even though the community said "We do not want any more grind."

Just a minute ago I tried to launch ED and had to update. 0% success. Update failed (stuck). So I had to do it myself and eventually managed to get that update installed and posted a bug report about that.
What then? Engineers ... ugh. Let's check what kind of Engineers I have access to. Wow, bravo, x2 G5 FSD. x1 G5 MCs and x1 G5 PD. Apart from the PD nothing useful. Plus anything that is below G4 is useless anyways.
Okay let's see what kind of materials I have in my hold and what else do I need? Ugh, farming. No, thanks.
Anyone that has G4 PAs? Oh, PAs only go up to G2. Armor? Need to unlock. But why shall I mod my ship if I can't store the modules? And finally, for what do I need modded stuff? PvP? Why shall I do PvP?

2.1 is a disaster.

You're confusing yourself and about 20 other regular posters with 'the community.'

Those 21 posters keep plugging away even after the developers said out loud that they heard the issues and
were going to work on it in the next patch.

You're still not happy. You want to be told that everything about your singular gripes will be answered individually.

Even the developers saying OUT LOUD that they're helping you isn't good enough.

I pity you.

 

[NeilF]

The loot from SRV, wakes and missions should depend of specific location. For example: To get polonium you need to go to planet X and search it near craters. If you want yttrium then go to planet Y and search near canyons. If you want strange wake then you need to scan specific ships or in specific location.

In one sentece - too much of random. I am not saying a randomization is bad, it just not good well balanced at now. The probability of drop should be higher, but a player should get more specific conditions for farming (example of polonioum - near craters should it drop very often and on plain none or very rarely)

There's a suggestion that the chance of finding materials should be affected by a (procedural) distribution map (think heat map) - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=258294&p=4007154&viewfull=1#post4007154

There's no reason why - as you suggest - the distribution map couldn't take planetary assets into account. eg: Materials X (if on the planet) is more common in craters, or valleys, or higher/lower altitudes etc...

This same approach/mechanic is also applicable to rings too (for standard mining)

 

[avow555]

There must be a lot of meetings and soul searching at Frontier right now because they are even more quiet than usual.

You hit nail on the head there Commander.

As much as I have expressed my dislike for content I do really want to see the game succeed but it's time for them to hire some people who know how to implement content that has long term appeal and feels fun to do.

I get the distinct feeling that multiplatform seems to be a high priority without actually getting the core game working.
Most of the addons for me have been far removed from the original game and it's becoming increasingly concerning this game won't survive much past season three.

Engineers needs to be revamped and pronto.
I would rather see sensible and predictable sourced materials via the various game mechanisms and gaining points with the Engineer which you can choose which area you wish to improve your item. The higher the level the more points you can spend.
There should be variation but one roll of the dice per item, specials could involve collecting a rare item which allows "You" to decide the special (another random roll squashed out of the process thank you very much).

 

[Krieger]

Wow, 3 pages already. I'll have no trouble filling my time until the first EC match of today starts.
.
Thanks for your thoughts so far and thanks for the rep.

 

[NeilF]

Just imagine if you could swap materials... Or get them via other routes.

It's been proposed "Materials Brokers" simply have exchange rates. eg: Trade X units in of material Y, for a unit of material Z.

It's also been proposed (by me) that:-
1) Players should be able to swap materials amongst themselves (amongst other things) while docked togethor - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=238907
2) Players should be able to sell excess materials at engineers, where other players can them buy them. Think proper supply/demand mechanics - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=258470&highlight=material (I think the Material Broker is a better idea though)

 

[Cosmos]

No need to be surprised. FD has released grind-feature after grind-feature even though the community said "We do not want any more grind."

Just a minute ago I tried to launch ED and had to update. 0% success. Update failed (stuck). So I had to do it myself and eventually managed to get that update installed and posted a bug report about that.
What then? Engineers ... ugh. Let's check what kind of Engineers I have access to. Wow, bravo, x2 G5 FSD. x1 G5 MCs and x1 G5 PD. Apart from the PD nothing useful. Plus anything that is below G4 is useless anyways.
Okay let's see what kind of materials I have in my hold and what else do I need? Ugh, farming. No, thanks.
Anyone that has G4 PAs? Oh, PAs only go up to G2. Armor? Need to unlock. But why shall I mod my ship if I can't store the modules? And finally, for what do I need modded stuff? PvP? Why shall I do PvP?

2.1 is a disaster.

I wouldn't call it a disaster but it clearly has some flaws, lack of storage is a major oversight.. As for being out of touch, I'm starting to agree. But then what do people expect from a guy who appears on streams with a stupid teddy wrapped around his neck in an attempt to look cute?

Objectively, there is far too much of a table top card game influence getting into ED.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

I've seen it mentioned a while back that the material distribution is related terrain, but in my personal experience I don't think this is true, or at least not to the extent it could be.

For example, only this week I spent hours exploring craters for Polonium and found two in 6 hours. The following day, on the same world. I find 5 in fifteen minutes of driving across a featureless plain. To me its completely random and has no bearing on skill, challenge, or a need to build up any geological foreknowledge of what is where in game.

Have a look at this video linked below. Its of a crater that is nearly 100 kms deep, it has mountains 40 kms high, and ravines just as deep. Not only is it an awesome place to visit, but its probably one of the most challenging places to explore in an SRV.

Now if places like that had an abundance of the rarest elements, and players were rewarded for venturing into them to locate and retrieve those elements, that right there throws adventure, risk, reward, skill, and challenge into what is currently a mind numbingly boring grind fest for rare mats. Have such materials only spawn in those kind of locations, but reward players for their efforts to retrieve them and we start to move away from the uninspiring random and shallow gameplay that we currently have.

I don't expect it to be easy - I expect it to be challenging and interesting... and above all... a rewarding experience both in terms of the adventure undertaken, and the ultimate goal of coming back with a few of the items I went looking for. Gametime well spent.

Waiting for a lucky random spawn to pop up nearby offers none of that.

[video=youtube;ekLvhPpOyUs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekLvhPpOyUs[/video]

 

[Cosmos]

There must be a lot of meetings and soul searching at Frontier right now because they are even more quiet than usual.

They are most likely off on their summer holidays..

 

[Parmo]

... As for being out of touch, I'm starting to agree. But then what do people expect from a guy who appears on streams with a stupid teddy wrapped around his neck in an attempt to look cute?

Lord, that made me LOL![haha]
It does make one wonder though!

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

They are most likely off on their summer holidays..

To play ED for a change?

 

[Krieger]

With respect to "Engineers" many of the changes were good. The new mission screens, improved graphics, even the engineers themselves. I think that the development team however missed a step however when building the crafting system.
<snip>...
Fit the wave scanner from the SRV to your ship as part of the refinery. This would allow skilled miners to interpret the signals and decide which rocks to mine. Te prospector limpets would enhance the yields and tell you of the relative contents. Collector limpets would be recallable, and refuel-able from the controller module requiring fewer. But they would be significantly more expensive starting at 25,000c and increasing with higher grades.

Fly safe Commanders.

Exactly, they invented this wonderful wave scanner mechanic to locate stuff but don't use it's full potential. An airborne (spaceborne) version of the wave scanner fitted to our ships could rid us of the ugly RNG blue circle POI mechanic too. I like driving the SRV because they got the driving mechanics spot on (and quite realistic) and because of the wave scanner. I really enjoined finding out that it's signals relate to what stuff it detects and how far away it is. Over time I trained myself and became quite good (I think) at hunting for the rocks I want and I learned something about meteorite composition. It doesn't feel RNG at all even though there _is_ RNG behind it. That is what good game design is about. They can do it, why not for The Engineers?

 

[Cosmos]

To play ED for a change?

I've often wondered about the point 'we are making a game we want to play'.. Even if taken upon face value you can't possibily expect folks to spend all week, and perhaps lots of over time, working on something for years and then find them playing the game in their spare time. I'm not saying they don't play it but I'd be surprised if they really have the time or energy to do so.

 

[Brownshortz]

Agree with everything being posted here. The RNG is so frustrating I'm finding it harder and harder to bring myself to log on. The lack of storage was a major major over sight on FD's part.
As an example I've been attempting to upgrade one of my modules......to get the G5 upgrade I still need a certain Data type and a very rare commodity. Because there is no storage it makes sense to obtain the thing on shopping list that takes up cargo space last....otherwise you have to lug it around everywhere with you until you complete the list.
So I have been focussing on the Data type first....visiting countless POI's doing ground based missions, investigating every USS I come across. After 12 hours of playing....nothing.
Then tonight I take one more mission in the vain hope the RNG Gods will smile upon me.....and guess what one of the rewards was?? That's right...the rare material that takes up cargo space!!!! Its like the game is taunting me....I couldn't take the mission because I have no desire to be attacked every time I enter an RES or interdicted every 2 minutes and I still hadn't found the Data type to complete the blue print. I hate you RNG Gods.

 

[Muetdhiver]

That's the thing, they have the required stuff at hand : e.g.

• When scanning a planet with the DSS, give the intel about what materials are present on the surface.
• Use the ship detailed surface scanner as the wave scanner to locate geological point of interest where and provide intel about the composition (materials) you can find there.
• Tie the different types of geological features containing material "sets" to the planet type and terrain (e.g. craters, rifts, mountain ranges and so on...).
• Also, we got prospector drones, I'm sure these could have some use planetside.

I.e. that way, you can use skill and thinking to locate what you seek : eg, rich metal deposits can be found in deep rifts on metalic planets => go there, survey from the ship and narrow down a small area to explore with the SRV.
Or, radioactive stuff is more easily found in SNR remanants regions. => get there and do some prospection for polonium.

Instead we get flat RNG lists all over the place.

 

[Cosmos]

That's the thing, they have the required stuff at hand : e.g.

• When scanning a planet with the DSS, give the intel about what materials are present on the surface.
• Use the ship detailed surface scanner as the wave scanner to locate geological point of interest where and provide intel about the composition (materials) you can find there.
• Tie the different types of geological features containing material "sets" to the planet type and terrain (e.g. craters, rifts, mountain ranges and so on...).
• Also, we got prospector drones, I'm sure these could have some use planetside.

I.e. that way, you can use skill and thinking to locate what you seek : eg, rich metal deposits can be found in deep rifts on metalic planets => go there, survey from the ship and narrow down a small area to explore with the SRV.
Or, radioactive stuff is more easily found in SNR remanants regions. => get there and do some prospection for polonium.

Instead we get flat RNG lists all over the place.

I remember before anyone had found the barnacles and we had no clues whatsoever to where they might be, other than 'certain regions of space'. If we hadn't been given a clue we'd have had the following to search: 400 billion systems and all the bodies we can land on, and all the blue POIs to go through. I don't know how many quad trillionbillionbillongazillion possibilities there might have been but we would have been at it for a very long time.

As you say, it would be nice if there were reasonable avenues or areas to go looking and some improvement on how we search for stuff. Even the asteroid fields are pot luck..

 

[NE1]

But then what do people expect from a guy who appears on streams with a stupid teddy wrapped around his neck in an attempt to look cute?

+rep me and my brother have both made similar comments when we saw this on the stream, and the other thing was so many people in the chat were thinking it was cool and wanted bobbleheads. we just shook ours

 

[Crimson Kaim]

You're confusing yourself and about 20 other regular posters with 'the community.'

Those 21 posters keep plugging away even after the developers said out loud that they heard the issues and
were going to work on it in the next patch.

You're still not happy. You want to be told that everything about your singular gripes will be answered individually.

Even the developers saying OUT LOUD that they're helping you isn't good enough.

I pity you.

Why don't you back up your post with examples? I'd like to know when they have touched the netcoding once. Right now the result (and by the way: the result is the only thing that matters) is the same. Instancing breaking, multiple instances for 4-6 players.
Additionally, next patch is too late. This was already delayed for quality reasons so I, as a customer, expect quality but as it stands now, the quality is not present. Next patch I 'would' expect, as a customer, ED to be patched and improved but, as a human being with common sense, I don't expect that as, as it stands now, 2.1 has delivered a tremendous amount of nonesense into the game.

See, after alot of disappointments in other cases I started to ignore what developers (or anyone) are saying and look only at what they are doing. Right now 2.1 did cause me to not touch this game anymore (well, TBH it isn't only 2.1). Empty promises and words are worthless and will therefore be ignored.

 

[Ian Phillips]

Ladies and Gentlemen.

Making comments on replacing FD staff members because *Reasons* is not tolerated.

Please desist.

 

[Robbeh]

Personally I think some form of the DDF should be reinstated. There are so many good concepts and ideas in that forum and it would aid FD by nipping the more "unsavory" ideas like the RNGneers in the bud before they get too far invested in the development.

The DDF and the original pitch/dev diary's are what sold me on this game and it seems that they are moving further and further from these concepts with every update.

 

[1984]

Agree. Powerplay is a turn based war game. Engineers is random grind fest. I really don't think the Devs play their own game for more than one hour a week.

 

[Cmdr Thrudd]

Personally I think some form of the DDF should be reinstated. There are so many good concepts and ideas in that forum and it would aid FD by nipping the more "unsavory" ideas like the RNGneers in the bud before they get too far invested in the development.

The DDF and the original pitch/dev diary's are what sold me on this game and it seems that they are moving further and further from these concepts with every update.

I'm in two minds over the DDF. On one hand it was a great sounding board for the devs and on the other listening to the customers isn't always such a good idea. I know that's counter intuitive but I've seen customer requests ruin games time and time again, sometimes the devs need to stick to their vision. It needs to be done with care.
What I think is frustrating is the way that the devs keep so many of their plans hidden, I assume for marketing reasons. While this can work out well from time to time, I think it's also dangerous. It means a lot of work goes into features that suddenly get sprung on us and turns out to have missed the mark. A bit of early discussion with the community could have possibly steered the specifics of said features into a better solution. Earlier and longer structured beta's requesting testing/feedback on specific features would be a great way to make sure what hits live was of the quality we all want our game to be. The beta's have always been a few weeks too short and every big patch is plagued with bugs that annoy and frustrate the users giving the game a bad rep. These pre-set deadlines are only hurting the game.

Edit as I clicked submit by mistake:
My big concern now is that the same sort of problem will happen with 2.2 & 2.3. We've heard nothing solid about what we're going to do with ship launched fighters, passengers and multicrew just that "it's going to be cool". I'm worried that when we get it the devs will be all excited about this new feature they've spent months working on and the community will say "meh, not interested. There's no point". I really hope they start discussing their plans in detail soon so we understand their vision for the new features.