What you should be asking OP is.....
.....hold on FD, if I can buy myself a G3 upgraded Suit with two mods pre-installed, then why can't I buy myself a Ship with C or D rated Modules that have been partly Engineered?
The frustration in suit and weapon upgrade and customization
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.....hold on FD, if I can buy myself a G3 upgraded Suit with two mods pre-installed, then why can't I buy myself a Ship with C or D rated Modules that have been partly Engineered?
I'm just speculating. At least I don't design my game like this.Lol nope. Have you played the rest of the game at all
In fact such options doesn't exists.
If the Horizon path is buy a ship -> buy modules -> engineering those modules, then Odyssey should be similar but in reality it is buy the suit/weapon -> engineering. The buy module part is totally missing.
Mechanical energy, pressure waves. You were missing these words.
Still, it makes sense to have these simulations.
There are things that are not realistic and are more bothersome, to be honest, if one wants to focus on that aspect (I don't, I enjoy it):
-FTL travel
-Shields
-Forcefield airlocks that keep air inside but let everything else go through
-instant communication
-static galaxy
and so on...
But they are all presented quite organically, and I am quite happy with the final result, I don't have to readjust my suspension of disbelief continually, which is what bad sci-fi/fantasy do.
Strange way to spend money but ok.
Well, upgrading from g1 to g5 for suits/weps is very similar how E vs A rated modules are, atleast the way I see it. Still for suits/weapons, only diffrence is that upgrading needs materials as well along of cost in credits, its again same reason, its cheap trick to force ppl play with limited content. And I dont mind it at all, cuz it actually makes use of those rather numerous list of odyssey thingies to find.
Besides, soon enough, materials gathering will be easier, as devs already have plans for makin it easier. Some of ideas are nice, and it will certainly help with getting fully G5 and modded stuff, both for ships and equipment. But u need wait probly some time for tha.
Think about it.
You buy a basic ship and add individual modules to improve it's performance characteristics. These modules can then be engineered with modifications to tweak performance .
You buy a suit (or weapon) and upgrade it, which improves several of its performance characteristics (such as shield strength, battery capacity etc). Engineering modifications can further be added to tweak performance.
So, in my view, upgrading a suit (or weapon) is the equivalent of adding modules to a ship. The main difference is that suits and weapons cannot have the changes removed and something else in its place. In my mind I see it as ships being able to be modular, whilst suits (or weapons) cannot due to their small size.
Hand held weapons can be viewed as modules, like those ship weapons added to hard points. A CMDR can be considered to have only one hardpoint, but a number of different weapons and grenades can be cycled in and out of the hardpoint as required. A CMDR only has one pair of hands.
I am content* with the permanent nature of suit and weapon modifications. I try and carefully consider the need to add a modification before applying it.
* Meaning I am not going to lobby/be vocal about changing the permanence of modifications. If it happens, it happens and I will live with it and use if needed.
Steve 07.
Most of us thinks it's balanced....yet you don't!
You buy a Ship....it's bog standard E rated.....it'll do, but not the best!
You wanna improve it?........buy yourself up to A rated Modules.......but EACH module has to be purchased separately, not the whole Ship!
You wanna improve it more.....Engineer it.....each module!
You buy yourself a Suit/Weapon.......it'll do but not the best
You wanna improve it?........get your purchase up to G5 by doing a bit of Engineering.....or if lucky you've purchased yourself a G3!
You wanna improve it more.....Engineer it by adding mods....or if lucky you've purchased a Suit with up to two Mods already installed!
It's swings & roundabouts here OP.
The only issue I have between Ships & Suits/Weapons is why can't I remove the Mods Ive installed & place them onto another Suit........like I can with my Ship modules.
I'm fine with that in general. But take for example one of the unlocks. Do 6 covert heists and 6 covert thefts.
Why do we need to do each 6 times? We could do each one once and determine if we like them. We get to experience the content. If someone likes those missions then fine. But if someone doesn't like those missions, making them do them more than once is just needless grind.
The materials/data on the other hand for upgrades/engineering aren't as bad. There are usually multiple ways of getting them, from trading at the bartender, to mission rewards, to grabbing stuff while doing missions, or just raiding.
Well, I can spend credits to get modules I want. For suit/weps I have to pay multiple materials on top of credits, to get from E to A.
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Considering that at worst you buy a G1 Suit or Weapon, you only have 4 upgrades & 4 mods to get a fully modded G5 product......Ok you've gotta grind out materials for that.
For a Ship you've got what?
7? 8? Core Modules
9? 10? Internal Modules
5? 6? Utility Modules
Up to what? 6? Weapon Modules
First to get them up to grade A.......then EACH ONE of those has to be Engineered, by..........grinding out materials
Some people wear extremely narrow visioned blinkers!!!!!
Let me modify a bit
---
You buy a Ship....it's bog standard E rated.....it'll do, but not the best!
You wanna improve it?........buy yourself up to A rated Modules.......but EACH module has to be purchased separately, not the whole Ship!
You wanna improve it more.....Engineer it.....each module!
You buy yourself a Suit/Weapon.......it'll do but not the best
You wanna improve it?........buy yourself up to A rated modules by speeding some credits
You wanna improve it more.....Engineer it per module....or if FD being generous and selling pre-engineered modules!
---
To make the above happen, FD just need to make some suit functionality into modules. For example, I do exploration only, then I can max out the battery and bring more oxygen with no shields. Or, I do combat only, then I can max out my storage to put more ammo and grenades with max out shield unit but my battery drain fast. Then, we can engineer those modules to have more performance and give specialization. For example, the oxygen tank is made with a newer stronger material to store more but it is more heavy. Or battery is made from a new compound that can store more energy.
That's just the suit. How about weps? Reference to real life firearms, or even CoD WZ, so many things can be made into modules and engineer afterwards!
That's because sometime A rated is good enough for the job. IMO engineering should be optional.
Grade 3 suits and weapons that you can buy are enough for anything you might want to do in the game.
Mods can help with various tasks (like night vision is certainly useful in certain situations and having more battery jiuce or backpack space can be nice), but it's not like you can't do things without them.
It takes lots of time to unlock and upgrade your stuff, but that's not the problem for me. Elite is a game you play for years, so I don't expect to upgrade everything at once. The problem for me is that I don't see the point. I haven't encountered anything I couldn't do with what I already have and doing things only to to upgrade my equipment to be slightly better at doing things to upgrade my equipment doesn't make a lot of sense.
My biggest gripe with Odyssey is unfriendliness of the UI. I never remember what materials or data I need the most and game won't allow me to tag selected materials to just show me some kind of icon next to them (like this one I really need, this one is worthless to me), Only way to check material requirements is to visit engineer or shop. I have to keep extensive notes outside of the game to keep track of what I need and checking my material inventory is a pain in the backside. Terrible design.
Mods can help with various tasks (like night vision is certainly useful in certain situations and having more battery jiuce or backpack space can be nice), but it's not like you can't do things without them.
It takes lots of time to unlock and upgrade your stuff, but that's not the problem for me. Elite is a game you play for years, so I don't expect to upgrade everything at once. The problem for me is that I don't see the point. I haven't encountered anything I couldn't do with what I already have and doing things only to to upgrade my equipment to be slightly better at doing things to upgrade my equipment doesn't make a lot of sense.
My biggest gripe with Odyssey is unfriendliness of the UI. I never remember what materials or data I need the most and game won't allow me to tag selected materials to just show me some kind of icon next to them (like this one I really need, this one is worthless to me), Only way to check material requirements is to visit engineer or shop. I have to keep extensive notes outside of the game to keep track of what I need and checking my material inventory is a pain in the backside. Terrible design.
Deleted member 182079
D
When it comes to the overall design of on-foot gear (particularly the 3 suits), once you realise that Arx-funded cosmetics like skins or suit packs were what they were designed around first and foremost, everything starts to make a little more sense (from a developer's perspective at least).
The only reason I can think of why we have 3 distinct suits with a "signature tool" as an excuse to set them apart is to spread out visual customisation and spread out and flatten the engineering progression curve.
From a lore/gameplay perspective not being able to wield an arc cutter or plant scanner independent of what suit you're wearing makes little sense (why can't I cut open a panel with a clearly handheld device not connected to my suit, in an Artemis suit for example, or scan a plant in my Maverick).
Nor does the fact you can visually customise your suits with silly add ons that don't affect gameplay, while weapons don't have any visual distinctions in the form of mods that visually represent whatever you fitted to your weapon (silencer, scope, etc.). Something that has been standard staple in games that feature guns for decades now, but is missing in EDO.
I've stopped spending much time on suit engineering and just stick with the pre-engineered stuff you can find in random stations - not that this is particularly engaging gameplay either if you set out to hunt for them, and you'll spend the majority of your time sitting in super cruise, but G2/G3 without mods is all you need to do whatever you want on-foot (incl. High CZs). It's a shame that the game doesn't give you a better incentive to work towards more advanced engineering (like more challenging scenarios where you really need G5 gear with particular equipment) but there you go.
As someone else said though already, the game is what it is, Frontier, instead of shaving off the less appealing edges of engineering features instead doubled down on them. The appeal of Elite is the sandbox/stellar forge, everything else is uninspired, half thought out game design that's tacked on to that as a mere excuse to engage in any of the activities the game offers. And I don't think this will ever change fundamentally.
If you look at the game like a theme park instead (that's after all Frontier's area of expertise) and just jump from one activity to the next once you get bored you'll probably have more fun with it if that works for you.
The only reason I can think of why we have 3 distinct suits with a "signature tool" as an excuse to set them apart is to spread out visual customisation and spread out and flatten the engineering progression curve.
From a lore/gameplay perspective not being able to wield an arc cutter or plant scanner independent of what suit you're wearing makes little sense (why can't I cut open a panel with a clearly handheld device not connected to my suit, in an Artemis suit for example, or scan a plant in my Maverick).
Nor does the fact you can visually customise your suits with silly add ons that don't affect gameplay, while weapons don't have any visual distinctions in the form of mods that visually represent whatever you fitted to your weapon (silencer, scope, etc.). Something that has been standard staple in games that feature guns for decades now, but is missing in EDO.
I've stopped spending much time on suit engineering and just stick with the pre-engineered stuff you can find in random stations - not that this is particularly engaging gameplay either if you set out to hunt for them, and you'll spend the majority of your time sitting in super cruise, but G2/G3 without mods is all you need to do whatever you want on-foot (incl. High CZs). It's a shame that the game doesn't give you a better incentive to work towards more advanced engineering (like more challenging scenarios where you really need G5 gear with particular equipment) but there you go.
As someone else said though already, the game is what it is, Frontier, instead of shaving off the less appealing edges of engineering features instead doubled down on them. The appeal of Elite is the sandbox/stellar forge, everything else is uninspired, half thought out game design that's tacked on to that as a mere excuse to engage in any of the activities the game offers. And I don't think this will ever change fundamentally.
If you look at the game like a theme park instead (that's after all Frontier's area of expertise) and just jump from one activity to the next once you get bored you'll probably have more fun with it if that works for you.
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that would be very nice to have materials tagged for things I need the most, without noting them down on a paper and checking.
It's 6 of either but thefts are bugged.
As Florenus posted, G3 stuff is enough get most players through......probably not me, as I'm at pewpew.
If you or I want to make it easier or better or more powerful, then just like your Ships you can upgrade & mod to your hearts content.
Everything here is OPTIONAL & not MANDATORY.........you think it's "unfair" then don't do it......simples
at pewpew.If you or I want to make it easier or better or more powerful, then just like your Ships you can upgrade & mod to your hearts content.
Everything here is OPTIONAL & not MANDATORY.........you think it's "unfair" then don't do it......simples
Yeah, i wasn't clear on the exact situation since i've seen conflicting messages. Some swearing blind its 6 of each, others saying thefts don't count, its 6 of either but since thefts are bugged then you have to do 6 heists.
Anyway, my point stands, 6 (or 12) isn't required to experience the new content.
Practice? You might be most excellent at everything first time, but I wasn't ... knowing you need to do a few will convince many that they shouldn't just be trying to fluke their way through once. At the moment it's set at 6, despite being able to be read as 12, which seems ok to me.
One issue with engineering unlocks is the game won't tell you how many you have done - and isn't great at counting for itself. Classic fdev
(Really most things should be set at a low number - why they thought it would be fun to find 40 Opinion Polls - as it was at first - is beyond me. Same with SDP - once you found a couple you know where they are (or aren't
))