The Interdiction discussion thread.

[Flavourless]

I would love to see the ridiculous mini-game removed.
Firstly because it is so bugged (since before release) that it is a complete lottery who wins, should rather be something skill based, and secondly because it stretches the imagination way too far to try to see what physics may be involved in the process.

The original Elite was so much better. No interdictions, but your in-system jump drive was mass-locked by any object (including asteroids), which meant that all interactions took place in normal space.

 

[OamodSias]

I would love to see the ridiculous mini-game removed.
Firstly because it is so bugged (since before release) that it is a complete lottery who wins, should rather be something skill based, and secondly because it stretches the imagination way too far to try to see what physics may be involved in the process.

The original Elite was so much better. No interdictions, but your in-system jump drive was mass-locked by any object (including asteroids), which meant that all interactions took place in normal space.

My preference would be:
When in supercruise, you should be able to speed up to someone and then open-fire; this will effectively knock them out supercruise; there will be no cooldown period, the person is free to re-enter supercruise BUT they have to first get up to speed in order to do so.

Entering supercruise would simply be a touch of a button; you just have to get up to speed, then after you hit SC button you accelerate to stupidly fast speeds and your HUD updates accordingly (none of this countdown rubbish).

Entering hyperspace would be the same, except again, no countdown; you simply get faster and faster until you hit hyperjump speeds at which point you get that cool hyperjump effect (the added thing here would be that it takes a little while to get between stars - the further the distance the longer it takes... not sure on lore though).

Just rough ideas.

The game feels like everything is broken into disparate parts; I can actually feel like I'm in an instance instead of feeling like I'm in space. It doesn't bother me, but I think it could have been developed better.

 

[Lobstris]

Interesting; a quick Google pointed me to a forum post here about interdiction and apparently a 4D can get you like 700ls in range.
Didn't know that.

I think the interdiction range is a function of the relative speeds and masses of both ships - i.e. the relative closure velocity against the maximum possible current SC speed (which is in turn dictated by how deep in any gravity wells the ships are) as well as the quality of the module vs. mass of ship being interdicted.

In an ideal world, I've already argued a few times that the 'tug-of-war' minigame could go, to be replaced by a more stealth and detection based system, where rather than seeing all ships within a certain time horizon around you in supercruise, detection is based on factors such as mass of ship, drive output, quality of drive, scanner quality vs 'steath modules', speed in supercruise, relative cross-sectional profiles of profile of ships etc. Max Speed/rate of acceleration in supercruise should be determined by mass of ship and quality of drive. Generally I'd slow supercruise down, and make it more of a 'cat and mouse' game, where you can actually stalk prey, with an 'instant win' if you get into an optimal position to drag your opposition into normal space. Yes this would mean traders would have less chance to escape, and may necessitate other mechanics (turrets, support fighters, AI wingmen, travelling as part of a convoy, using other players with better sensors as pickets, using probes in supercruise to scan blind-spots, that kind of thing.)
.
I do miss the old feel of Elite - that you encountered pirates/hunters/others in space as you traversed the system, rather than going to a nav beacon/RES/USS POI, that actually make little rational sense in a huge volume of available space. Actually, I want to play a space version of 'Harpoon' crossed with Elite.

 

[Irisa Nyira]

It's always an NPC trying to interdict me, and when I win the mini-game, the NPC is nowhere to be seen. Pointless waste of time.

If you win the mini-game, the npc drops out of SC and you stay in it. That's why you can't see it.

 

[excalibus]

interdictions can be escaped from and its not a lottery to do it... it does actually take piloting skill to keep centred on the escape vector as well as the quality of the interdiction unit plays a part I believe...

As for it pulling the interdictee backwards towards the interdictor, well I think it's actually a 2 way street, when engaging the device from behind a target I am pulled towards them and so I suspect they are also pulled back towards me a n equal amount, the number of times I have had to dodge stars and other planetary bodies while interdicting when the target was on the other side of the body when I engaged the interdiction unit... Mindboggling...

So I do not actually think its a 1 way pull... Yes it can be frustrating when you are screaming towards a dock with your canopy breached and you get 'dicted' within 2Mm of the station... or when you get a player or an NPC (both have happened to me) which continues to interdict you all the way into a far off station...

 

[Alien]

If you win the mini-game, the npc drops out of SC and you stay in it. That's why you can't see it.

That explains it, thank you.

- - - Updated - - -

interdictions can be escaped from and its not a lottery to do it... it does actually take piloting skill to keep centred on the escape vector as well as the quality of the interdiction unit plays a part I believe...

I think better thrusters on your ship help as well, or it seemed to, maybe someone else can confirm this is / isn't the case?

 

[Commander Blunthead]

I do think it would make more sense if the one doing the interdiction ended up at the location of the one being interdicted.

Think about it. If it forces the target out of supercruise so it comes to a halt. Then the ship performing the interdiction stays locked on to it and also drops at its location. This would make far more sense to me.

What we have now is one ship firing a hyperspace grappling hook and then reeling the target in at literally infinite speeds once the magical win bar is filled up. This may not be how it is described but this is the only way I can picture it when seeing it in action in game.

Hmm.. the reeling in rhetoric gave me an idea.

Proposal:
Make it more like a fishing game. The interdictor reeling the target in will close the distance between the two ships, actually pulling it in, or preventing it from going much further forwards while closing the distance. When the distance between the two ships is at safe disengage distance or less, both ships drop out of SC close to eachother.

This should make the experience far less jarring when dropping out of SC regardless of what end of the interdiction you are on.

 

[Andromalius]

I have never reported it because I thought someone would have already done so by now...

Don't worry, it has been reported since beta and nothing was done to correct it. Not sure it's even acknowledged at all.

 

[OamodSias]

Don't worry, it has been reported since beta and nothing was done to correct it. Not sure it's even acknowledged at all.

I'm sure they know about it; somebody would have reported it and it would have been logged and shifted to dev.

Perhaps it's a high severity but low priority issue ( http://istqbexamcertification.com/what-is-the-difference-between-severity-and-priority/ ) or perhaps it's simply more complicated to fix than we know?

Either way just because something has existed for a while and hasn't been fixed yet, does not mean "nothing was done" or "not acknowledged."

In one of our older apps we have a high severity/low priority issue that's been around for at least two years because fixing it would a) take too long (thereby impacting development on more important areas), b) cost a lot of money (dev time) and c) cause problems in numerous other areas linked to it (which are working fine). Not to mention it happens quite rarely hence the low priority.

It's common for bugs to sit by the wayside for an extended period of time until the development team have had time to address it.
Only the developers know when something is high priority; unfortunately, whilst it may be high priority for us it could be low for them.

As an example: I remember one client crying for months and threatening to sue (although he would have lost) because he found an issue which was high priority for him (it really wasn't though since he could do the same thing a different way) but after our initial investigation we found it was a rather severe bug (high severity) but only occurred in very rare, very specific, circumstances and only he was affected ergo it was a low priority issue.

Sucks, but that's how it goes.

 

[excalibus]

I do think it would make more sense if the one doing the interdiction ended up at the location of the one being interdicted.<snip>

Actually what would make sense is both being pulled towards each other... consider the interdiction tether like a winch... if neither side is rooted (fixed to more mass than the enegy required to create motion in both objects) then both objects would move towards each other at differing rates, the object with the heavier mass would move less towards the object with the lesser mass but wouls still move towards it...

So if you are in a sidey and I am in an anaconda, and I interdicted you, you would be pulled towards me more than I would be pulled towards you, but I would still be pulled towards you to a certain degree because in space there is little to no friction and its only getting that mass moving that would matter...

Affectors to that would be your relative speed to me as well as your drive output capabilities...

In the reverse ship situation, if I was flying the sidey and you the anaconda, I would move towards you more than you would move backwards towards me...

 

[jonny taco]

I think it is worse when the interdicting immediately bugs out and the interdictor wins, however I do feel your pain especially when I am trying to get somewhere in a jiffy.

The buggy interdictions (which have been present for almost a year now) are imo issue #1. I stream and have literally hundreds of instances of interdictions bugging out recorded... It's gotten to the point where I feel FD simply just does not care.

 

[Commander Blunthead]

Actually what would make sense is both being pulled towards each other...<snip>

One of the things I described was that the interdiction system knocks the target out of supercruise, and then the interdicting ship catches up and drops at the same location. It would make a tremendous amount of sense to me. It could be represented as being teleported to the target location but I would rather avoid that too. It could also be represented as a wake you would have to drop into when you get there, but this would give the defender a huge advantage, waiting in the instance for the attacker to show up. It would eliminate teleporting though.

The other thing I described, the "fishing game" would pull the two ships together in supercruise already and only drop them out together when they were at the same location. This would eliminate the whole "getting teleported" thing without giving an advantage to the defender.

What we currently have is the target being teleported backwards, which is the solution that I like the least of all possible ways to do it that have been described so far. Both ships being teleported towards the middle, or the center of their common mass, is not really much better than what we have now. I would prefer nobody gets teleported anywhere.

 

[excalibus]

One of the things I described was that the interdiction system knocks the target out of supercruise, and then the interdicting ship catches up and drops at the same location. It would make a tremendous amount of sense to me. It could be represented as being teleported to the target location but I would rather avoid that too. It could also be represented as a wake you would have to drop into when you get there, but this would give the defender a huge advantage, waiting in the instance for the attacker to show up. It would eliminate teleporting though.

The other thing I described, the "fishing game" would pull the two ships together in supercruise already and only drop them out together when they were at the same location. This would eliminate the whole "getting teleported" thing without giving an advantage to the defender.


What we currently have is the target being teleported backwards, which is the solution that I like the least of all possible ways to do it that have been described so far. Both ships being teleported towards the middle, or the center of their common mass, is not really much better than what we have now. I would prefer nobody gets teleported anywhere.

For that to 'work' in a mechanical sense there would be no way to avoid the interdiction... think about it... for me to knock you out of supercruise would essentially be pointing a gun at your ship that interferes with your drive and drops you out and then tells my shipboard computer to lock in on your low wake and exit supercruise there...

I think that would be a fair assumption of how it would need to work based on current in game 'technology'....

That would give you no chance of escaping as long as my shot is accurate...

As it stands right now its more anologuous to a winch, where by winding around (keeping lined up with the escape vector) you end up confusing the tether that is established and I drop out into normal space but you get to keep on going in supercruise as a result...


The reason I think (and pretty much know) for why we have interdictions (not the reason behind them but the actual mechanics of it) is because in previous 'elites' we were always in normal space and used time compression as a method of fast travel and we could attack or be attacked while travelling in compressed time mode because the game would drop back to normal time mode... Alas we are now in a multiple player universe and so time compression is not an option anymore... The way forward was supercruise... but that does now allow us to attack each other only normal space allows for us to do combat manouvers etc... hence the interdiction device...

One way around that would be to allow us to engage and attack in supercruise...


and just to clarify from someone who does a lot of interdicting of npc's for missions... it is not a 1 way pull... both ships get pulled towards each other

 

[Commander Blunthead]

<snippety>As it stands right now its more anologuous to a winch<snipsnip>

We seem to agree then that the best way to do this would be with the distances decreasing while in supercruise and have both drop while they are on top of eachother?


I gave a couple of examples of what I think could be done to make the experience less jarring for both parties, and my favorite one is where you reel them in like a fish. This seems to be how you would prefer it too then?

 

[excalibus]

We seem to agree then that the best way to do this would be with the distances decreasing while in supercruise and have both drop while they are on top of eachother?


I gave a couple of examples of what I think could be done to make the experience less jarring for both parties, and my favorite one is where you reel them in like a fish. This seems to be how you would prefer it too then?

I like the interdiction minigame myself... If I am in a hurry and want to avoid it and am in a ship capable of outmanouvering the interdictor, I do not give up the game by submitting, if the interdictor is a target I am seeking then I will of course submit... If I am in a ship that does not stand a chance to outmanouver and win the minigame then I will do a submit boost boost boost jump move...

so it does not phase me...

Even if they made it so there was no interdiction minigame, instead you manouvre close enough to a target (within a few LS from them) and then you begin shooting would be fine with me too... as long as there is that time taken for the laser beams to travel to you so you can 'dodge'

 

[Commander Blunthead]

I like the interdiction minigame myself... If I am in a hurry and want to avoid it and am in a ship capable of outmanouvering the interdictor, I do not give up the game by submitting, if the interdictor is a target I am seeking then I will of course submit... If I am in a ship that does not stand a chance to outmanouver and win the minigame then I will do a submit boost boost boost jump move...

so it does not phase me...

Even if they made it so there was no interdiction minigame, instead you manouvre close enough to a target (within a few LS from them) and then you begin shooting would be fine with me too... as long as there is that time taken for the laser beams to travel to you so you can 'dodge'

Well lasers travel at lightspeed, and we sometimes travel faster than light, so it would give us plenty of time to avoid them if they shoot at us from behind

I never actually said I wanted to get rid of the interdiction minigame, just change what happens when it is over to make the transition smoother for both parties. Or as in the case with the fishing suggestion, what happens during it.

 

[excalibus]

I see, soo as long as I maintain my position lining you up for interdiction while the tether is active, your speed should be dropping rapidly and mine speeding up equally rapidly, so that you might not necesarily get 'pulled back' but would suddenly see your 7 seconds to target going up to 10s, 40s, 1m etc and your ships speed would be going down even if you were at full throttle...

in the meantime I would be closing in behind you getting right up your coight so to speak towards full interdiction...

How would the various upgrade modules work then with this? At the moment, each class (1 , 2 ,3 etc) module signifies the distance (and I think also the strength) it can tether a target and each grade (E, D, C, B, A) tends to signify how easily it is to break etc as in if I have an A5 interdiction module, I can interdict an NPC and within literally a few seconds they will be dropped to normal space vs an A1 module which will work at a closer range but still requires me to keep them in my sights for a reasonable amount longer at least...

 

[ICE Blade]

Well I caught 3 - 1 with an interdiction

Have you guys ever pulled this off. I guessing its not too rare to do. I wish I knew better places to bounty hunt.

I caught 3 in 1 with indirection here with my viper, first time so proud lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZdmWkYCPjI

 

[Lucifer Hate]

It is not actually rare at all.

on a side note the instructions in the start of the video are incorrect. When you interdict you only have to trigger it not trigger and hold the button

 

[ICE Blade]

Well I never, it feels like you have to hold it down. Ill make sure I mention that in the comments lol Cheers man! I wonder what my next bounty hunting ship should be after the Viper?