The Joystick/Controller discussion thread
I *think* CH Products do a south-paw version of their combat stick HOTAS, but I don't want to swear to it, or even guess as to how easy they are to get hold of.
There are a few ambidextrous / left handed sticks available (TM 1600M for example), but I don't know of any common HOTAS setups for left handers I'm afraid.
EDIT
I did a few minutes with Google to see what I could find, & this is something you may want to look into
http://snomhf.exofire.net/leftyHOTAS.html
Assuming you can get hold of the HOTAS he modifies, that is.....
There are a few ambidextrous / left handed sticks available (TM 1600M for example), but I don't know of any common HOTAS setups for left handers I'm afraid.
EDIT
I did a few minutes with Google to see what I could find, & this is something you may want to look into
http://snomhf.exofire.net/leftyHOTAS.html
Assuming you can get hold of the HOTAS he modifies, that is.....
That looks epic....Saitek x-55 Maybe Elite should partner up with a Company like this.
Evidently CIG (the Star Citizen guys) are in talks with Saitek to produce a joystick for the game, based on input from the community there. I'll be sticking with my 'Hog, but it'll still be very interesting to see what they come up with.
I've decided, for Elite-Dangerous and a few other games, that I will be getting a flight controller and will not be dealing with mouse & keyboard or a gamepad style controller. Please don't post here about those latter control methods.
I know there are more than one threads about controllers but I feel my questions are more specific and, hopefully, more helpful for those of us who're going flight-stick.
I've not had a flight stick in many years (Apple IIGS?). But I recall two huge problems I've had with them. One is a twist-motion rudder control and the other is keeping the stick still/upright.
I've never tried pedals, but I can see them being quite intuitive with some practice. Twisting the stick has always compromised flying precision - whether trying to maintain a specific course or make adjustments. I can't believe I'm alone. Has anyone overcome this problem other than with separate rudder pedals?
I tend to mangle controllers. Thankfully, I don't use them much at all. But sore fingers are common. And I recall many times toppling a flight stick with suction cup bottoms. What solutions do any of you have for this type of problem?
I anticipate utilizing a work-center style desk which is at the height of the keyboard, not a taller desk with a roll-out keyboard tray. I'd probably break the tray off with a controller on it - LOL - and it should be easier to switch to keyboard and mouse when necessary. But, at this point I'm open to anyone's suggestions who's tried to solve these problems!
Don't be afraid to post pics of your setups!
Thanks!
I know there are more than one threads about controllers but I feel my questions are more specific and, hopefully, more helpful for those of us who're going flight-stick.
I've not had a flight stick in many years (Apple IIGS?). But I recall two huge problems I've had with them. One is a twist-motion rudder control and the other is keeping the stick still/upright.
I've never tried pedals, but I can see them being quite intuitive with some practice. Twisting the stick has always compromised flying precision - whether trying to maintain a specific course or make adjustments. I can't believe I'm alone. Has anyone overcome this problem other than with separate rudder pedals?
I tend to mangle controllers. Thankfully, I don't use them much at all. But sore fingers are common. And I recall many times toppling a flight stick with suction cup bottoms. What solutions do any of you have for this type of problem?
I anticipate utilizing a work-center style desk which is at the height of the keyboard, not a taller desk with a roll-out keyboard tray. I'd probably break the tray off with a controller on it - LOL - and it should be easier to switch to keyboard and mouse when necessary. But, at this point I'm open to anyone's suggestions who's tried to solve these problems!
Don't be afraid to post pics of your setups!
Thanks!
I avoided buying a stick with twist rudder for this very reason. It is something that has been noted by reviewers on SimHQ. The only thing I can think of, barring completely disabling it, is to set a dead zone that is bigger than how much you twist it during normal flight.
1. Get a heavier stick!
2. Use velcro pads.
3. Attach the stick to a large heavy plate like the Thrustmaster Warthog has. Even with that I sometimes cause it to leave the table for a split second or so sometimes.
The Saitek X52-Pro has optional suckers fitted to the base - it completely fixes the twist-stick issue (at least for me). I have my HOTAS on the main desktop (I agree that on my keyboard drawer I'd probably kill the drawer). Fortunately I sit pretty tall so the sticks aren't at an uncomfortable height for me.
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Have a look here for sim pit ideas, although some might be considered a BIT over the top 
http://http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2286818/Please_show_off_your_pit#Post2286818
http://http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2286818/Please_show_off_your_pit#Post2286818
I'd like to try a high-quality stick along with yaw pedals. Twist to yaw works okay, but it can definitely be a bit imprecise, and overall there's too much to do with the right hand. The grip-strength required to twist actually makes it hard to operate certain buttons while manoeuvring. Sometimes it's hard to reach over to a particular hat or button, and sometimes I find I'm pressing secondary fire when I don't mean to. The Warthog looks like the prime candidate for the HOTAS part, so I'd just need to find some decent looking pedals and start saving...
I use Velcro to fix my X52 down, but I picked up some really cheap furniture to rest them on (around £5).
I use Velcro to fix my X52 down, but I picked up some really cheap furniture to rest them on (around £5).
Here is what SimHQ said about the twist rudder on the Saitek X-65F:
http://www.simhq.com/_technology2/technology_088c.html
"The controller properties offer the option of locking the rudder axis. You will want to do this. Why? Well, I’ve found that it is absolutely impossible to give pitch and roll input to the X-65F’s joystick without giving rudder input as well. This is a problem with traditional displacement-based twist rudders as well, but at least in that situation the user can feel that the stick has twisted and attempt to compensate. With a force-sensing twist rudder there is no displacement and thus no feedback."
http://www.simhq.com/_technology2/technology_088c.html
"The controller properties offer the option of locking the rudder axis. You will want to do this. Why? Well, I’ve found that it is absolutely impossible to give pitch and roll input to the X-65F’s joystick without giving rudder input as well. This is a problem with traditional displacement-based twist rudders as well, but at least in that situation the user can feel that the stick has twisted and attempt to compensate. With a force-sensing twist rudder there is no displacement and thus no feedback."
Have a look here for sim pit ideas, although some might be considered a BIT over the top
the above link fails in Chrome, not tried others.
But below is another "working" link
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2286818/Please_show_off_your_pit.html
I use an x52 pro setup. The pro has a button that locks out the twist grip. It stops the stick from twisting at all, not just disabling the function.
I used PVC pipe to build stands for the stick and throttle. Light weight, easy to store. I build a rectangular 'box' from the pipe and used screws to attach a 10" x 11" x 1/2" piece of plywood to the top and bottom. Anti-skid 'patches' for furniture holds them in place so they don't slide around on the floor.
I have a very light hand on the stick so that has been sufficient for me. The stick has slots in the bottom that look like you could put screws in the wood for the stick to 'snap' into if velcro/suction cups are inadequate.
Just an idea
I used PVC pipe to build stands for the stick and throttle. Light weight, easy to store. I build a rectangular 'box' from the pipe and used screws to attach a 10" x 11" x 1/2" piece of plywood to the top and bottom. Anti-skid 'patches' for furniture holds them in place so they don't slide around on the floor.
I have a very light hand on the stick so that has been sufficient for me. The stick has slots in the bottom that look like you could put screws in the wood for the stick to 'snap' into if velcro/suction cups are inadequate.
Just an idea
Nice to see a fellow IIGS owner... Elite was impossible to play one one of those after installing a Transwarp by AE....
You know, the WartHog has bolt holes for a reason.... heheheh.
I've been thinking about velcro.
And, full disclosure, I'm considering the Warthog quite seriously - along with some as-yet-unknown pedals. But I'm sure I'd have the Warthog sliding/flipping, too. LOL
I don't remember the stick I had back when. But I'd pop the suction cups right off the tabletop time after time. LOL
Please don't take this as me being rude, but what's your point? Better, what is your solution? I think you're just saying, "don't use twist!" With which I agree!
So what do you do for rudder/yaw control?
It may have been the ][c, but I think it was the IIGS. Anyway, whosever's stick it was I was using didn't help at all. I found Elite to be impossible to play as it was. I could never, EVER, get my rotation synched up properly for docking and died again and again and again and again... LOL
I think it's quite the (masochistic?) statement that I've jumped on this game!
Again, Warthog's where I'm leaning. Perhaps mostly simply because it doesn't have twist rudder. If it can be locked out, as suggested above, on a less-expensive-yet-competent stick I may go that route with some pedals.
I've avoided twist sticks too, and went with yoke/pedals/throttle quadrant setup for my flight simming. Pedals are now maxed out in one of the toe brake axis, but could probably be fixed by changing a pot.
I can't imagine running ED on that though, since I'm guessing (and hoping) it will be somewhat keyboard intensive. Flightsim had clickable 3D cockpit and heavily mouse oriented for me, so mouse (and TrackIR) rather than keyboard proved a nice solution for me. I'm not sure how input friendly and configurable ED will be though.
Since I don't like console controllers (I did buy one solely for Trials - where I did like it), I guess I'll go keyboard and mouse as usual.
My mounting was usually to an extension of the desk which provided thick enough board to mount toke to using its mounting screws. I'd take down the whole thing if doing something else, as it was interfering with my keyboard access.
Plan ahead Don't panic on "how to mount" while the game is downloading.
I can't imagine running ED on that though, since I'm guessing (and hoping
) it will be somewhat keyboard intensive. Flightsim had clickable 3D cockpit and heavily mouse oriented for me, so mouse (and TrackIR) rather than keyboard proved a nice solution for me. I'm not sure how input friendly and configurable ED will be though.Since I don't like console controllers (I did buy one solely for Trials - where I did like it
), I guess I'll go keyboard and mouse as usual.My mounting was usually to an extension of the desk which provided thick enough board to mount toke to using its mounting screws. I'd take down the whole thing if doing something else, as it was interfering with my keyboard access.
Plan ahead
Don't panic on "how to mount" while the game is downloading.You couldn't have said it better!
I was just offering that up as assistance. I use the twist function... Again, I have a very light hand on the stick, so moving the stick and accidentally twisting isn't an issue for me. Also, the twist on the X52 is surprisingly accurate so I use it.. not very 'realistic' for flight sims, but Hey, it's a space ship. I don't know this for certain, but I seem to recall having seen the space shuttle controlling yaw with a twist... I'll see if I can find it..
Edit: Found it!
Each attitude director indicator has a set of three rate pointers that provide a continuous readout of vehicle body rotational rates. Roll, pitch and yaw rates are displayed on the top, right and bottom pointers, respectively. The center mark on the graduated scale next to the pointers shows zero rates, while the rest of the marks indicate positive or negative rates. The adi rate switch for each indicator unit determines the magnitude of full-scale deflection. When this switch is positioned to high (the coarsest setting), the pointer at the end of the scale represents a rotation rate of 10 degrees per second. When the switch is positioned to med, a full-range deflection represents 5 degrees per second. In the low position (the finest setting), a pointer at either end of the scale is read at a rate of 1 degree per second. These pointers are ''fly to'' in the sense that the rotational hand controller must be moved in the same direction as the pointer to null a rate.
from http://spaceflight1.nasa.gov/shuttle/reference/shutref/orbiter/avionics/dds/adi.html
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