The Joystick/Controller discussion thread

[Wulf]

I've tried all 3 methods of control and have to say the Joystick is by far the best.

I've now tried a few joysticks with the x52 pro being the best. However in terms of cost The Speedlink Black Widow is the winner, costing over 6 times less than the x52 pro. It really is good quality considering the 26 quid price.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Ah, I humbly beg to differ! I have an old (and inexpensive) Logitech Force Feedback joystick, which worked a treat with FSX. One of the things FSX got right was the control surface feedback. In real life, when you actuate airplane control surfaces, you're pushing them into the airflow, hence they have a "resistance" which is progressive, and the airflow creates a tendency to snap them back in place. Microsoft got this spot on with FFB support for FS, it really "made" the sensation of flying a plane, especially the heavies.

Now in a space flight sim, there is no air resistance and therefore no need for FFB.

You are quite right, and I agree - however, the feedback offered in controllers is laughable at best. It doesn't offer anything meaningful other than vibration. It doesn't forcibly yank the stick away from you, it doesn't tilt your chair over 45 degrees and scrape your knee on the ground, and it most certainly doesn't decompress your room and expose you to space.

That is all I am trying to say

 

[jynxed]

I still have not decided, I would go for a warthog but whats putting me off is the lack of twist function, I kind of like to have all 3 on the stick. I would also therefore have to invest in pedals. The stick itself looks great and then there is the software which along with the general build quality is meant to be second to none.

The x65 seems like a nice bet but seems over priced in the few stores that have it still. Alot of places has been sold out for months so I am wondering if there will be a newer version soon like when the x52's where unavaliable for such along time before the x55 announcement. Throttle on the x65f looks great for this product.

Then of course there is the x55, which we dont know much about as yet as we can't even pre-order it in the eu and no-one has a hands on review out there yet. Saitek just have an un-boxing vid and its original promo. The throttle doesnt look a match for the x65 as although it looks similar seems to have a couple of things different in the listed specs..

So I guess I will just hand back see it the x55 gets decent reviews and if it will be released in time for the beta for me. If the reviews show it to be bad or its not out on time I will just see which one of the other 2 has decent deals on at the time.

 

[michaelfife]

You are quite right, and I agree - however, the feedback offered in controllers is laughable at best. It doesn't offer anything meaningful other than vibration. It doesn't forcibly yank the stick away from you, it doesn't tilt your chair over 45 degrees and scrape your knee on the ground, and it most certainly doesn't decompress your room and expose you to space.

That is all I am trying to say

Oh I see you were talking about console joypads specifically. Sorry my bad, yes of course, they're not really ffb, I agree.

 

[Chock]

Now in a space flight sim, there is no air resistance and therefore no need for FFB.

Not necessarily. FFB can simulate blast waves, the jolts of touching down when docking, docking clamps going on, that sort of thing, and of course hits on your ship when in combat. There would be other useful things FFB could be used for on a spaceship. In actual fact FFB is often used on real aircraft such the Airbus sidestick controllers to prevent pilots from overstressing the aircraft, since with a FBW system like that on Airbus aircraft, there is no direct link to the control surface and so an artificial feel has to be simulated. That would be useful to do on a space fighter as well.

If you are a real world pilot, you will know it is entirely possible to completely overstress an aircraft by using too much control deflection, and when piloting a light aircraft which uses direct mechanical linkages that have nothing to limit your ability to use brute force against control surface pressures, you have to be mindful of that. Try kicking on full rudder in a light aircraft whilst it is right up near the VNE and you will almost certainly rip the vertical stabiliser off it.

Space fighters such as those depicted in ED have no need to guard against control surface pressures whilst in space, but since they would likely be using vectored thrust to change their course, it would presumably be possible to overstress the craft by rapidly doing a thrust deflection one way and then the other, which might generate torque stresses on the airframe. Not to mention the fact that these craft will also (eventually) be entering atmospheres when planetary landings are patched into ED at a later date, and then you certainly could make use of FFB, because in either case they would be affected by the air mass, regardless of whether they were flying aerodynamically via wings, or simply with thrust negating their weight.

 

[michaelfife]

@Chock:
I certainly wouldn't argue against the use of FFB in a space game, and most of your examples would certainly be nice touches, but I don't think FFB is anywhere near as necessary to give the sensation of space flight as it is with atmospheric flight.

Didn't know (but suspected was the case) about the use of FFB in real jets that have fly-by-wire. That makes sense, but for a spaceship, the max vectoring thrust settings could be such that the frame is never overstressed, so the pilot would never have to worry about that, unless there is some sort of naughty "override" button for extreme situations!

Now when planetary landings, and therefore atmospheric flight come into play later in the game evolution, using FFB would certainly be a nice touch.

All this is fairly academic however, as the only current FFB joystick on the market I think is a Logitech £300 HOTAS jobby, or older discontinued ones like the MS Sidewinder, or the Logitech Wingman Force. So not a huge client base to bother with all the coding I wouldn't think. Which is a shame...

 

[Memnoch]

They are a nice idea but I never understood why anyone would spend intentionally spend extra money on a feature that will make your aim worse! I could get someone to stand behind my chair and wiggle it about as I play for free!

 

[trekman]

Hello everyone,

While anxiously waiting for the game's launch (not an alpha/beta player) I'd like to ask for your opinion/advice on the best way to control the spaceship: keyboard, mouse or joystick? If joystick, any good suggestions on what to buy?

FYI, I'll play from my laptop (it's a gamers model so it can handle it).

Thanks,
Pedro

The x52 is probably the most popular for most people on this forum. However, unless you are a serious gamer I think that the price tag of well over £100 is too much to pay for a joystick. I personally will be using the fly 5 which was only just over £40.

As for your assumption that your laptop will be able to handle the game because its a gamers model is a bit premature I think since the final specs for the game havent been announced. I think its better to wait and try a demo before making claims like that.

 

[Chock]

I could get someone to stand behind my chair and wiggle it about as I play for free!

Or you could get one of these: http://www.thebuttkicker.com/

 

[Reaper99]

I still have not decided, I would go for a warthog but whats putting me off is the lack of twist function, I kind of like to have all 3 on the stick. I would also therefore have to invest in pedals. The stick itself looks great and then there is the software which along with the general build quality is meant to be second to none.

The x65 seems like a nice bet but seems over priced in the few stores that have it still. Alot of places has been sold out for months so I am wondering if there will be a newer version soon like when the x52's where unavaliable for such along time before the x55 announcement. Throttle on the x65f looks great for this product.

Then of course there is the x55, which we dont know much about as yet as we can't even pre-order it in the eu and no-one has a hands on review out there yet. Saitek just have an un-boxing vid and its original promo. The throttle doesnt look a match for the x65 as although it looks similar seems to have a couple of things different in the listed specs..

So I guess I will just hand back see it the x55 gets decent reviews and if it will be released in time for the beta for me. If the reviews show it to be bad or its not out on time I will just see which one of the other 2 has decent deals on at the time.

Just a heads up friend...the warthog works fine in the alpha without loading the target software...there are some updates coming down the line for the controller bios (rumor at moment) that will eliminate the need for target...on the otherhand you can totally make the game hotas with its control..and even without z axis for roll on the stick...ive split my throttle and roll on the left throttle...doesn't take long to get used to...give the 55 a by...its a stop gap stick, x52, pro, or go with force sensing x65, or warthog...really depends on what you want to spend and the look you want, I have the pro, x65, and warthog and everytime I decide to sell em I just cant brinfg myself to do it with the what if senarios, and the 55 is made from same materials as the 52,52 pro...really not worth the additional cost...they just trying to fill in a price point diff between the pro and x65 which is sorta significant depending on where u live

 

[jynxed]

@ reaper99 Thanks for the advice, thats a great idea about the throttle.

I am a little skeptical over the 52 pro reason being I am so dam clumsy you would not believe add that to dogs who like to try and sit on knee when gaming, knocking everything flying makes plasticy things not a good idea. That is unless ofc they are absolutely solid.

I know I am best either getting a metal one that lasts or a dirt cheap one that I wont mind replacing when they inevitable happens lol.

 

[Memnoch]

Or you could get one of these: http://www.thebuttkicker.com/

I've never heard of those before and it took some digging through their website and some YouTube videos to even find out how they are supposed to work. From the look of the Gamer 2 it looked like the strap was something that attached to your chest or waist! None of the videos that I saw on their site explained that it attached to your chair post!

 

[Asp Explorer]

Or you could get one of these: http://www.thebuttkicker.com/

Or you can use one of these

 

[Asp Explorer]

@ reaper99 Thanks for the advice, thats a great idea about the throttle.

I am a little skeptical over the 52 pro reason being I am so dam clumsy you would not believe add that to dogs who like to try and sit on knee when gaming, knocking everything flying makes plasticy things not a good idea. That is unless ofc they are absolutely solid.

I know I am best either getting a metal one that lasts or a dirt cheap one that I wont mind replacing when they inevitable happens lol.

While the X52 Pro is indeed made of plastic, it's really quite hefty. Mine has survived drops to the floor, being chewed on by kittens, and waggled relentlessly since I got it.

The only weak part of the design I'd say was the MFD - limited use to me so far, and low visibility angle. Also the fire safety cage could be more robust, but that's really it as far as my niggles go.

 

[Squicker]

:....

 

[Stormprooter]

Well, bit the bullet and got an X52 off Amazon - selling for £99.99

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Saitek-Flig...e=UTF8&qid=1390207256&sr=8-2&keywords=x52+pro

 

[Krollin]

Greetings fellow Commanders,

+1 to the OP, thanks for the information. I have recently purchased a X52 Pro myself, not had any issues with it so far, but good to know either way

For the record my setup is as follows:

ASUS Sabertooth 990FX
AMD Piledriver FX-8
Sapphire HD 7950 Vapor-X OC 3072Mb
16Gb Corsair Venence Memory

Windows 7 x64

Kro

 

[Riandor]

Or you can use one of these

That is one horrible amp, owned one of these when I first started, but in practice it can't compete with a drum kit, which makes it pointless other than for in your bedroom.

Errr not that we are going off topic or anything, ahem..

 

[Ixnatifual]

Saitek X52 Pro on Win7 (64-bit) here as well. Didn't encounter this problem, but it's worth noting I didn't use the install disc supplied with the controller. I installed the drivers off the Saitek web page to make sure I had updated ones.

 

[popuptoaster]

You could get thumpers that ran in cars stereo systems, they were a crap idea, basically bolted to the floor under your front seats and imitated the kick you got from a decent subwoofer.

I have a Cambridge Audio amp and a couple of big old Pioneer stereo speakers right next to me, they do a fair job of imitating vibration and noise when playing tank or plane games.

You can see the speakers at the edges of this pic.