The Joystick/Controller discussion thread

[Stormprooter]

Fact is, aeroplanes and spaceships are best flown with joysticks, it's been that way ever since Louis Bleriot crossed the Channel and hasn't really changed because it works so well. If that wasn't the case, you'd see the pilot of your Boeing 737 holiday flight to Malaga using a joypad or the cursor keys to bring it in for a landing.

Or point 'n' click on an iPad - Like WarThunder (damn that game upsets me, because the control model is so over-powered for the mouse, and almost impossible with a joystick. I am so glad the control model in E : D works much better with a joystick)

 

[Razorwire]

... 360 controllers, I thought that I'd probably try one of those.
However, a LOT of people here have been lauding the value of joysticks in general and the X52 in particular...

...whilst a joypad will work, it simply cannot give you as fine control...

I agree with you, the general flight controls felt great on a joystick but my concern is the accuracy of the cross-hairs.

It's each to their own. If you've used one type a lot and the other rarely, you'll have to undo a lot of muscle memory to transfer.
For example, I can never get the hang of pads, even on games that are designed to use them.

 

[ATARI.]

It's each to their own. If you've used one type a lot and the other rarely, you'll have to undo a lot of muscle memory to transfer.
For example, I can never get the hang of pads, even on games that are designed to use them.

Yep, I'm really just trying to advise those that haven't used a joystick in years to hold-off and maybe save themselves some wasted cash.

 

[Chock]

Actually, one thing an x-box style controller is good for where something like MS Flight Simulator is concerned, is the helicopters.

With effectively two joysticks, an x-box style controller is better able to mimic the combination of the collective pitch lever and the cyclic control, with the only bad point being that there is no way to let go of the control you have assigned the collective pitch lever to and have it stay deflected, as it does in a real helicopter with the aid of a friction lock, so throttle control can be a bit tricky.

Nevertheless, if you have MSFS and a joypad, give it a whirl and you will see what I mean. Assign the torque rotor and throttle to the left thumb pad and the cyclic to the right thumb pad.

 

[Sir.Tj]

Hi everyone.

Merged a couple of threads discussing joysticks/controllers and usage for Elite Dangerous here in the ED General section together.

Any new threads on joysticks/controllers in this section will be merged into this one.

There is a general thread on joysticks as well in the off-topic section as well.

http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7910&highlight=joystick

Thanks

 

[ZeeWolf]

looks like Star Citizen might be considering partnering up with someone to make a bespoke controller. I wonder if they will know what the game will play like before they do that, or whether it will be designed based on the combined dreams of the masses?

Chris Roberts commands you to SPEND!

 

[Adept]

I agree with you, the general flight controls felt great on a joystick but my concern is the accuracy of the cross-hairs.

For this you need to tweak the control-response spline. What you want is a J-curve where controls are "sluggish" when the stick is nearly centered, for that fine aim, and then a sharply increasing response near the edges of the sticks movement.

 

[ZeeWolf]

For this you need to tweak the control-response spline. What you want is a J-curve where controls are "sluggish" when the stick is nearly centered, for that fine aim, and then a sharply increasing response near the edges of the sticks movement.

that made my head hurt. Am I playing a game or programming one?

 

[Minti2]

I have been hovering over an X52pro for a while now.

however it seems my procrastination has cost me, they are getting as rare as hens teeth now.

The X55 is out any time now, but not sure how much it is gonna cost. Pretty sure it will be more than the X52pro however (£120) and certainly more than the X52 standard (£85)

if someone knows where either the 52 or the 52 pro is instock maybe it would be an idea to post in here?

I would follow some of the other posters advice and hold out till Amazon gets the X52 Pro back in stock and dont pay more then £125(what i payed to them)

you could look here surprisingly the BT shop a much lower price on both models the pro is only £109! but stock might not be in

http://www.shop.bt.com/products/saitek-x52-pro-flight-control-system-4BYR.html?src=15

oh and agree that i dont think anyone would be at a disadvantage by using another method ie keyboard/mouse/360, its just a matter with all controllers getting the hang of them....i love keyboard only in the org Elite and was very good!

The 360 in alpha is pretty good

but X52 Pro is a beauty and my favored chose to play with in the Alpha

 

[Ashford]

No, he does not. Every time I see "that other game" mentioned here, it has some negative touch to it. Just because they actually have a marketing strategy and want to make money does not make them evil.

That said: The hardware peripherals market is always driven by the applications it's supposed to serve; so if there were years of no-joystick-required games, joysticks went into the specialist games section. Now, with a couple of titles promising to revive the market, peripherals companies perk up - and so should the game designers.
Gamers want a good experience, developers want less complexity, so partnering with a peripherals shop to design (or even just brand) some hardware to go together with the game makes sense. There are some almost-certain sales there, and happier customers all around, if it works.

So if Frontier goes out to a high-quality hardware company like VKD for example (Sturmovik rudder/pedals anyone?), a lot of us enthusiasts will gladly go along. But looking at current merchandise, it'll be CH or Speedlink..

 

[Dunk]

From my extensive research of forums and reviews prior to buying, I'd summarise the following joysticks that I looked into buying. Listed in price order : cheapest first :-

Thrustmaster T Flight X HOTAS
Cheapest HOTAS worth considering at about £35.
Cable between throttle and joystick can be too short to stretch around a keyboard.
Dead zone reported by a significant number of people.
Robust build quality.
Light Throttle.
Rocker control.
12 buttons and a hat.
Silly name.

Saitek X52
Lots of build quality and short lifespan complaints with flimsy buttons and hats that stop working after a while.
Accurate control (smaller dead zone).
Lots more buttons and hats so more likely to be able to configure the stick how you want.
Double the cost of the TM T-Flight X HOTAS.

Saitek X52 Pro
Same positives as for X52.
Better build quality but very expensive (4 times that of the Thrustmaster T-Flight X HOTAS).

Thrustmaster Warthog
The business. Everyone loves it.
Solid as a rock.
Ridiculously expensive.

My gut feeling was that the best sticks to play the game were indeed in price order from most expensive to cheapest. But that the best were silly money (subjective I know).

I decided to go with the Thrustmaster T Flight X HOTAS, thinking that if it is no good, I've only lost £35 and my kids were looking for something to get me for birthday and Christmas. I had decided against the X52 because I remember the old days (Amiga era) of joysticks dying after a few months of play and how annoying it was, since I'm a careful person with kit. So, my next port of call would have been the X52 Pro or possibly the X55 depending on how far in the future we're talking.

Anyway, the TM TFX HOTAS arrived a couple of days ago and I played Oolite on it.
I plugged it in (Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit), the PC found a driver and it was up and running.
There's no noticeable dead zone at all on mine.
The cable is long enough (about 50cm) to go around my normal sized keyboard (with number pad etc), but I didn't really care about that, as I always intended to play with the throttle and joystick combined.
The buttons all have a nice click to them and they mostly cover sensible ergonomic places. Better placings than a console controller IMHO.
The rocker behind the throttle has a nicer feel to it than I expected.

The mapping of keys via the Oolite control settings page was not great, but that is Oolite not the stick. I know from the Alpha videos that ED has this area better covered. Remembering which button does what is going to be difficult at first. I think I'll be drawing myself a picture to stick in front of me as a guide for a while. If for no other reason than to prevent the following :-

Me: “Now I think this button scans the ship in the gun sights.”
~Click~
Ship’s Computer: “Missile Launched.”
Me: “Oops!”

One hint : Don't order from http://www.shop.bt.com (the BTShop online). Even though it is listed at £30 there. Mine 'was' ordered from there prior to Christmas. Despite the BTShop apparently having it in and out of stock repeatedly during the next month, they decided never to send it. We cancelled and ordered elsewhere for £5 more.

 

[ZeeWolf]

No, he does not. Every time I see "that other game" mentioned here, it has some negative touch to it. Just because they actually have a marketing strategy and want to make money does not make them evil.

That said: The hardware peripherals market is always driven by the applications it's supposed to serve; so if there were years of no-joystick-required games, joysticks went into the specialist games section. Now, with a couple of titles promising to revive the market, peripherals companies perk up - and so should the game designers.
Gamers want a good experience, developers want less complexity, so partnering with a peripherals shop to design (or even just brand) some hardware to go together with the game makes sense. There are some almost-certain sales there, and happier customers all around, if it works.

So if Frontier goes out to a high-quality hardware company like VKD for example (Sturmovik rudder/pedals anyone?), a lot of us enthusiasts will gladly go along. But looking at current merchandise, it'll be CH or Speedlink..

Don't get me wrong. I'm backing SC and I'm all for it, I've got my 4GB hanger installed with its lovely space-ship and I too have sat in my pilot's seat and made whooshing noises and pretended its real. I reserve my right to be cynical about that non existent game and its over enthusiastic community of "the game exists in my mind and its amazing" punters as I do with this one (ED)!

 

[Sir.Tj]

Excellent post Dunk.

 

[Oss133]

Excellent post Dunk.

Indeed. You can't slam Dunk for posting a slam dunk.

 

[cassius]

Great summary, Dunk. +1

 

[Krollin]

Greetings Commanders,

+1 for Dunk, great post.

As someone who remembers the days of daley thompson's decathlon (a real JS breaker!) I agree with the quality comments, that said both my Cyborg and X52 Pro are a fair few years old and have (yet) to let me down!

I'd just like to add that just because you partner with someone doesnt mean it is any worse/better than a standalone brand/product, just means they go through the development to interface the device 100% to your application (instead of you the user doing it). Then they add 50% just for the privilege!

I plan on using both the Cyborg stick and the X52 Pro and compare (once Premium BETA is launched). I can also get my hands on a warthog so will do some videos and comparisons later...

Kro

 

[Steve_T]

...I decided to go with the Thrustmaster T Flight X HOTAS, thinking that if it is no good, I've only lost £35 and my kids were looking for something to get me for birthday and Christmas. I had decided against the X52 because I remember the old days (Amiga era) of joysticks dying after a few months of play and how annoying it was, since I'm a careful person with kit. So, my next port of call would have been the X52 Pro or possibly the X55 depending on how far in the future we're talking.
...

+1 for that post.

As I can't really justify the cost of an X52, at less than half the price, the Thrustmaster stick is the one I'll try.

 

[Exmortis]

I'll probably get a few laughs but this is what I played the original Elite with and I still think it's the best JS I ever had.

The reason I liked it was because the precision I had when trying to line up shots was far better for me when I use only my thumb and index finger on the stick, rather than my whole hand/arm. Thumb only using a console style controller doesn't do it for me either. Now the obvious drawback is the shortage of buttons, throttle, rudder, etc. but I just lived with the KB for that stuff.

These don't exist any more as far as I know so I'm going to be trying a new model. I'm having a hard time deciding though. I could care less about how realistic the controls are in terms of appearance (e.g. similar to how they would look in an F16 or whatever). In other words I'm not a flight sim guy. I only care about precision, durability/construction quality, and just enough controls to allow me to reach for the keyboard as little as possible. I only care about blasting my opponent in the game in the most efficient way possible.

Any suggestions? Reading this thread the X52 seems really popular but I'm not sure how much that is from actual performance of the stick vs authentic looks.

EDIT: My apologies...I didn't know that image would take the entire screen. lol

 

[I_am_Jon]

That was a classic stick, had an all beige version of it. I played an awful lot of Doom on it, virtually indestructible.

 

[Chock]

I'll probably get a few laughs but this is what I played the original Elite with and I still think it's the best JS I ever had.

Hey, don't knock it. CH are still in business, and that's because they make the best joysticks in the business:

http://www.chproducts.com/13-28464-Home.php

If their stuff is good enough for training ANG pilots, it's good enough for us scumbags