The Krait is amazing-- Please reinstate better smuggling missions to honour it!

[DMC831]

Id still say that the first few weeks of robigo during the slave era were some of my best experiences in gaming.. the balance of risk and reward (over and above gains with the possibility of losing it all instantly,1.5 hours per run) and the fact there was real learning required made you really feel like a smuggler.

Really nothing has come close.. remember the first dozen or so times you were being raised out of the hanger with a full load of slaves, not certain if youd make it, looking over the gas giant, and went 'here we go!'. Amazing stuff.

That pretty much describes how it felt for me too. I'm not a huge gamer or sumthin', but the Robigo Run was easily the most fun I've had in a game and gave ya that Han Solo feeling. It's also the only non-combat gameplay I've had in Elite where I needed to practice and improve my flying skills to be good at it.

That's why it boggles my mind why it'd get removed, since it's the sort of feeling Elite should be going for. I'd agree with players who may have felt it needed more depth, but removing it doesn't solve that nor solve the accusations of there not being enough fun things to DO in the game.

I don't know who to bug about this though. I doubt I can go to Frontier Expo and corner Sandro for an hour and bully the devs around a bit till they see the light, and I don't know enough about these forums to know if people in charge actually read stuff.

And going by the countless streams I've watched and comments I've read with the devs, I'm not even sure if most of them know the state of smuggling currently. Elite is such an enormous game with so many moving parts, I can't blame them for being unaware how bad the smuggling career is right now if it doesn't relate to what they're working on currently.

Over on Reddit players get wistful when talk about the old days of smuggling comes up, and I really hope Frontier sees they have an already-made career they could easily give a boost to and make a lotta players happy (during the long wait for Q4, it wouldn't be a bad idea to give us smuggling back and make folks go YAY FRONTIER!).

In the long run, I'd like the high end smuggling to get even riskier, maybe involving installations and surface bases and other places that don't just allow ya to boost through a mailslot.

 

[Xious]

Meh... I'm not impressed by the Krait.

 

[DMC831]

Meh... I'm not impressed by the Krait.

That's cool, I don't like lotsa ships others swear by. What do ya think about returning smuggling to its former glory though?

 

[Buio]

There is in fact, such a variable. Devs mentioned all ships have a value that determines how quickly security moves to scan said ship. The Krait apparently has an exceptionally low one.

My question is why authorities would be less likely to scan a ship model that is known to be used by smugglers and pirates? It doesn't make sense.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

I'm not a huge gamer or sumthin', but the Robigo Run was easily the most fun I've had in a game and gave ya that Han Solo feeling.

That's why it boggles my mind why it'd get removed, since it's the sort of feeling Elite should be going for.

Yeah. My mind was seriously blown that any experience made me 'feel' like a smuggler during the first few weeks of having a go at this. Truly special.

Remembering the removal.. it wasn't exactly. Actually all they did was change the contents to be less edgy (it was actually a thing to have a go at elite for promoting slavery back then too), and they also removed the npc swarm and fail on scan conditions. Yeah i think our experience was hit from multiple angles there, SJW's, server issues, and frontier probably doing their usual of wanting people to try something else.

We found the first era of skimmers after that which was a blast in its own way. To make a game out of it i decided to learn the bgs vs the mission generator and find my own bases where you could stack missions. It took forever, but damn it was so satisfying when one of your short listed systems had that perfect list..

Right now what we have is watered down dumbness in every aspect. Nothing to do with the mission board has a spark like that anymore.

As far as frontier doing anything, no chance. I can't believe they even pretend to say they are influenced by the community. I think the truth really came out during yesterdays livestream.. we have 2 scopes of influence: frontier are using our feedback as confirmation of something they're doing anyway, or if frontier directly ask us for a vote. The community management rubbing us up trying to show frontier as a responsive indie dev is a bit of joke

Perfect example: This year wouldn't have happened if they did. We'd be rolling in atmospheric planets with space legs hitting beta later this year if that was the case. Don't get me wrong, i like frontiers approach, its just they put energy into an image that doesn't reflect it imo.

 

[Qohen Leth]

It's an awesome option for explorers. Thank you Frontier. <3

 

[DMC831]

Yeah. My mind was seriously blown that any experience made me 'feel' like a smuggler during the first few weeks of having a go at this. Truly special.


Right now what we have is watered down dumbness in every aspect. Nothing to do with the mission board has a spark like that anymore.

Man, if I had my way, they'd let Skimmers make ya good money, make high level assassinations make ya good money, make smuggling pay great, have mining pay great, pirating NPCs, etc etc, so that people could pick the thing they enjoy best and have fun doing it (within reason, and with a priority for skill-based gameplay leading the way). I can't imagine they WANT it how it is right now, where "everyone" just ferries passengers around like a damn cruise director. But it's all that pays, and players will always be pragmatic when the difference in pay is so stark.

I've seen some players suggest that Frontier makes the boring stuff pay the best to make sure that players take part in those activities-- that always made no sense to me, since it's not like the BGS or the game falls apart if no one ferries passengers around. I know I'm being a cliche by being a long time player who starts complaining, but this seems so basic and obvious to me.

If they don't want running slaves to be the best money (and the attention that may bring in gaming media), they should just change it to Onionhead or something. Or any other drug, or anything really... it's not like we see the cargo anyway! Mining Outposts and rich high tech hubs in the bubble should be great customers for drugs. People love drugs!

I usually like other players's "new mission" ideas, and the concept of incorporating things like the installations into the mission system, but I also know nothing about programming so I got no clue how difficult that is. That's one reason I keep harping on the fact that all of this smuggling gameplay had already been programmed with NPCs and everything and it's just sitting around not being used, since reinstating that seems quicker and more reasonable (to a non-dev like me, at least). I just wish I knew the logic and knew their thought process on how they've balanced missions and gutted smuggling... I don't like being a whiny cliche after all.

I'd personally so much rather have a better mission system with good balanced pay based on skill and more fleshed out careers over Space Legs and atmospheric planets. I think day to day "what do I actually do in Elite" type improvements give us so much more bang for our buck.

 

[ilo]

This sounds more like: the description of this ship says it is a smuggler ship, I bought the ship and now I'm magically a good smuggler and know everything about smuggling, something I have not done at all in the last year or two.

 

[DMC831]

This sounds more like: the description of this ship says it is a smuggler ship, I bought the ship and now I'm magically a good smuggler and know everything about smuggling, something I have not done at all in the last year or two.

I got no idea what you're talking about; I used the Krait as an opportunity to bring up the state of smuggling, seeing as it was pushed as a smuggling ship. I personally smuggle all the time in whatever ship I'm in the mood for, but the smuggling missions are awful and don't even come with the threat of failing missions and whatnot.

I am wistful for how fun they used to be, and that they could be that fun again. There's plenty of ways to do combat (the pay is bad also but there's variety to the gameplay), trading is trading but at least they got the Galaxy Map filter update, mining and exploration have Q4 coming up (and exploration got a big pay bump a while back), but smuggling and piracy have had their careers gutted by either missions being removed/nerfed (smuggling) or longstanding bugs (piracy) and now they're not viable.

They're also illogical since they pay so much less than legal missions. I run around getting Allied with Anarchy systems all over and the pay is just dismal (and, of course, the missions are much less fun than they used to be and easier than ever). Most of the old hotspots like Robigo and Fehu don't even spawn missions in a Boom state the last I saw (Robigo more recently).

I definitely didn't mean to sound cocky; there's nothing to be cocky about and it's just a fun way to play the game.

Smuggling has been my focus since 2015 and unfortunately the gameplay and reward got ruined and I haven't seen a sign that Frontier is A: aware that it's bad, and B: there is a plan to fix it. It seems like a core, essential part of the Elite universe and a natural vessel for skill based gameplay.

 

[kofeyh]

Old-school smuggling was fun because it mattered. You had a bunch of credits on the line, and a lot of people either wanted you dead, or wanted what you were carrying; being scanned by anyone, let alone the cops made it feel like it was you against the rest of the universe. It was such a simple thing, but each run was different because you never knew if that was the run you'd cook the goose on.

I miss those missions. Because to me, that was part of the heart of the game and offered a cool risk/ reward outcome; missions that you could run, make some bank but work for it because any time you messed up, that was it, you had a bunch of dead missions and a lot of hot cargo to unload; which was then a whole other problem to solve (and had some fun elements even there). Until even that was taken away.

The credit potential is now dwarfed by milk-runs with passengers. It's just really unfortunate how it's all turned out. I reckon Frontier would make a very, very large number of people happy if those missions made a return. Make 'em pay a bit, but make 'em count. Real hot cargo that has every pirate and cop this side of the rift trying to punch your ticket; make a bunch of them (very) illegal; hell spice it up a bit by having some stolen navy tech and send the damned ATS after us. Lots of potential for shenanigans.

 

[DMC831]

Old-school smuggling was fun because it mattered. You had a bunch of credits on the line, and a lot of people either wanted you dead, or wanted what you were carrying; being scanned by anyone, let alone the cops made it feel like it was you against the rest of the universe. It was such a simple thing, but each run was different because you never knew if that was the run you'd cook the goose on.

I miss those missions. Because to me, that was part of the heart of the game and offered a cool risk/ reward outcome; missions that you could run, make some bank but work for it because any time you messed up, that was it, you had a bunch of dead missions and a lot of hot cargo to unload; which was then a whole other problem to solve (and had some fun elements even there). Until even that was taken away.

The credit potential is now dwarfed by milk-runs with passengers. It's just really unfortunate how it's all turned out. I reckon Frontier would make a very, very large number of people happy if those missions made a return. Make 'em pay a bit, but make 'em count. Real hot cargo that has every pirate and cop this side of the rift trying to punch your ticket; make a bunch of them (very) illegal.

I agree 100%; I'd even love it if high level smuggling had the ATR ships on our case, making it even riskier AND giving more of a reason to use smaller, faster, or colder ships. If they want to limit the pay a bit, forcing the best smuggling to involve Outposts in some way (either the start or the destination) can do the trick so that a Python can make you the most but you may want something faster (and then ya can't mega-stack in a Cutter or T9).

Obviously I'd be fine if a Cutter can do it as the uber-smuggling-mission-runner since I don't want players who prefer that ship to get cut out (I don't like flying it, but others do), but I'm assuming Frontier was put off by how much smuggling used to make-- of course, classic Robigo money has been far surpassed by a dozen gold rushes since then and it'd now be seen as very reasonable end-game pay.

More than the money though, you nailed why it was so much fun. I've truly never had that sort of experience in a game before or since, and it's just sitting there not being used in a game it's perfect for. While the reward has to be there, it was the adrenaline pumping as ya race back to the Bubble getting harassed the entire way, knowing that all that work could be for naught if ya bumble it.

I remember a chunk of the playerbase being angry about Robigo and other similar hotspots back in the day, but I bet it'd be different now since the standard of credits has changed while the game has grown. Unfortunately, the game keeps running into the issue where only one thing pays well, but if they're fine with risk free passenger missions making 100 million an hour then high level smuggling should be able to compare.

How did the #FreeKeely folks get their pet "want" accomplished? Who do we gotta make sure sees the issue with smuggling so we can sell them on it?

 

[FoxtrotF]

the Krait has a very narrow profile

You played a lot WoT? There's no "profile" in 3-Dimensional space, the way more important is it's width, but with such "triangle" area it's makes this ship useless because of a letterbox, and incoming/out coming traffic.

 

[DMC831]

You played a lot WoT? There's no profile in 3 Dimensional space, the way more important is it's width, but with such "triangle" area it's makes this ship useless because of a letterbox, and incoming/out coming traffic.

No idea what you're talking about and I can't quite parse your English; the ship fits easily through the mailslot because it has a narrow profile like a Cobra. Straight on you have a narrow profile in both ships, and there's no tall ceiling like a T7, no fin like a Beluga, no big gut like a Conda, etc etc etc, it's narrow and flat.

 

[ilo]

Every time I go to maia I come back to the bubble with a couple of smuggling missions by the local mob, and there are other places where you can easily find more smuggling missions. Robigo had to die. Not its missions, but the whole robigo place, it was broken.

If you love smuggling, you love smuggling 1T of cargo in any small ship because of the gameplay around it, not much about the pay (since we all know credits are not an issue right now).

 

[FoxtrotF]

no big gut like a Conda, etc etc etc, it's narrow and flat.

You have problems with sneaking into letterbox while boosting on Conda? How you control your vertical alignment in letterbox is fully up to you, but with horizontal, there's always an option with incoming or out coming traffic so you have less freedom. And yep, the best ship in terms of smuggling was an Orca(but with less cargo space than Py)

 

[Arkadi]

With this logic the T9 is a better smuggler.
I used one to smuggle hundreds of millions of credits worth of Imperial Slaves.
All you need is a heatsink.

I think with current gameplay the T9 IS one of the best smuggling ships. Currently smuggling is like trading only with illegal goods. There is zero risk if you have some heat sinks. And in my opinion this is one of the best arguments why we need the return of smuggling missions and a general improvement of smuggling game play. If smuggling feels and plays nearly identical to regular trade, something is wrong.

Old-school smuggling was fun because it mattered. You had a bunch of credits on the line, and a lot of people either wanted you dead, or wanted what you were carrying; being scanned by anyone, let alone the cops made it feel like it was you against the rest of the universe. It was such a simple thing, but each run was different because you never knew if that was the run you'd cook the goose on.

I miss those missions. Because to me, that was part of the heart of the game and offered a cool risk/ reward outcome; missions that you could run, make some bank but work for it because any time you messed up, that was it, you had a bunch of dead missions and a lot of hot cargo to unload; which was then a whole other problem to solve (and had some fun elements even there). Until even that was taken away.

The credit potential is now dwarfed by milk-runs with passengers. It's just really unfortunate how it's all turned out. I reckon Frontier would make a very, very large number of people happy if those missions made a return. Make 'em pay a bit, but make 'em count. Real hot cargo that has every pirate and cop this side of the rift trying to punch your ticket; make a bunch of them (very) illegal; hell spice it up a bit by having some stolen navy tech and send the damned ATS after us. Lots of potential for shenanigans.

Agreed. Also I think basic police and scan interaction has to be tweaked a bit. As it is now, it's way to simplistic. Fire a heat-sink and be done can't be the all and everything about smuggling game play.

At least it should be illegal to fire heat-sinks inside the no-fire perimeters of intact stations, that are not on fire. I think the officials should realize by now, that heat-sink usage is a usual habit with smugglers and maybe they ought to do something about it...

 

[DMC831]

Every time I go to maia I come back to the bubble with a couple of smuggling missions by the local mob, and there are other places where you can easily find more smuggling missions. Robigo had to die. Not its missions, but the whole robigo place, it was broken.

If you love smuggling, you love smuggling 1T of cargo in any small ship because of the gameplay around it, not much about the pay (since we all know credits are not an issue right now).

When did you last do a smuggling mission from Maia back to the bubble? I check weekly, they've not been around since before 2.4, and they'd only show up immediately after the server downtime for the weekly tick (and then disappear again after an hour or two).

The gameplay around it IS the problem right now, it's risk free and too easy. And the reward needs to be there for any gameplay in a video game; right now the gameplay is bad (it's not how it used to be) and the reward is worse than legal cargo.

 

[DMC831]

You have problems with sneaking into letterbox while boosting on Conda? How you control your vertical alignment in letterbox is fully up to you, but with horizontal, there's always an option with incoming or out coming traffic so you have less freedom. And yep, the best ship in terms of smuggling was an Orca(but with less cargo space than Py)

No, I don't have any issues with it. I used to do passenger missions in a shieldless Beluga, getting through the slot quickly is easy-- I was mentioning the Krait has a narrow profile (meaning the head-on profile), and that led you to your original comment. I was then comparing the Krait to LESS narrow profiles in case you weren't following. This is not a issue I personally have in the game.

The Orca is a nice ship, but I don't like its looks and normally preferred the classic Cobra/Asp/Python for my smuggling and the T9 when I go for a big ship. That's not _really_ the point though, it's about the smuggling mission nerfs, how long range smuggling and legal cargo hauling has been missing from the game for a while, and how fun the fail on scan missions used to be.

 

[FoxtrotF]

No, I don't have any issues with it. I used to do passenger missions in a shieldless Beluga, getting through the slot quickly is easy-- I was mentioning the Krait has a narrow profile (meaning the head-on profile), and that led you to your original comment. I was then comparing the Krait to LESS narrow profiles in case you weren't following. This is not a issue I personally have in the game.

The Orca is a nice ship, but I don't like its looks and normally preferred the classic Cobra/Asp/Python for my smuggling and the T9 when I go for a big ship. That's not _really_ the point though, it's about the smuggling mission nerfs, how long range smuggling and legal cargo hauling has been missing from the game for a while, and how fun the fail on scan missions used to be.

Eh, I remembered glorious Robigo runs, it was so fun...

 

[ElPueblo]

I've never done the smuggling missions.

IMO it is overall a really good ship, one of the best if you ask me (not a huge fan of cutters/anacondas/etc I very much prefer 'smaller' ships).
Cockpit in VR is a breath of fresh air, it's simply impressive.

It is very similar to Python.

Python got the advantage of cargo space (one size 6 slot more than Krait), on the other hand, Krait is slightly faster and more agile than Python.
The rest is very similar, including the heat management.

Here is a comparison of these two (credits to the author of the vid):

[video=youtube;7VEgX7OrELs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VEgX7OrELs[/video]

I'd love if FD would pay more attention and work a bit more on smuggling missions, for the sake of variety in ED