The Krait is amazing-- Please reinstate better smuggling missions to honour it!

[DMC831]

First of all, hats off to the designers of the Krait. It's like you took all of my favourite elements of design and functionality from my most-used ships and put it all into one. It's perfect!

However, we now have a ship great for smuggling, but there's (literally) zero good smuggling missions. I remember back in the day there were plenty of really awesome smuggling missions, both short and long range-- I loved the long range ones and how it made me hop around the bubble, finding new places, and with the risk of one scan ruining every mission.

I hoped that there'd be an entry in the Patch Notes saying that long range smuggling and cargo missions were reinstated and a buff to their pay added, because we desperately need something aside from passenger missions as a way to make cash. And smuggling actually takes some skill to pull off each time! Ya can't go AFK during it like ya can with passenger missions.

I've asked before but never got an answer-- why were long range smuggling/legal hauling missions removed? Why do smuggling missions pay so much LESS than legal missions? Smuggling is my favourite activity in the game and ya already have all the mechanics in the game plus NPC AI already programmed, I really eagerly and respectfully request that you enable them again.

And please, make them fail on scan missions like they used to be. This is another thing I don't get; why was that changed? Smuggling should pay great but be risky with a chance to ruin every mission with one mistake.

Also, why do the original factions in places like Robigo not even offer missions at all? I know Robigo and places like it got changed back when ya basically removed smuggling as a viable career the other year, but why is this still in place? I know there was an exploit some players used to sell contraband back to the station, and I'm glad you removed that exploit (I never used it, I enjoy doing the missions), but there's no reason to STILL hamper Anarchy factions and smuggling missions so so so much.

(Side note: Back in 2.4, after the server would come back after downtime for the weekly tick, the classic "fail on scan" smuggling missions would spawn again for an hour or two! I would take the missions when I could get in the game on time, so I know the programming for the missions and the NPCs still exists, plus that they will indeed fail upon a scan (I tested it). The classic smuggling missions would then disappear after an hour or two, and in 3.0 I've not seen the missions spawn at all)

With Crime and Punishment and the NPC powerplant bug hurting pirates so much, we need some variety to our ne'erdowell gameplay. The Krait is perfect for this, but if I spend time smuggling I'm kinda a dope since it pays less than even data couriering. I ain't asking for new mechanics, but just reinstating the classic fail on scan missions and make the pay decent and the cargo requirements low enough for players to do them in a Cobra or other fast smaller ships (right now, I'd usually need a Python or larger to even accept a smuggling mission).

If this isn't possible, may I know why smuggling was nerfed and a great mission type removed? Is it intended?

In addition to smuggling, the old fail-on-scan Data Couriering missions were fun too. Just anything to give us some skill-based non-combat missions that actually make some money and provide some danger.

Again, the Krait is awesome. It's now my main Saturday night thang. I would love to use it how it's meant to be used by taking some super fun smuggling missions.

(If smuggling has been "changed" because you're looking to do a big overhaul of the mechanics, I would greatly appreciate even a wink in that direction so that I stop whining about it. Even still though, until the career can be overhauled I and other smugglers would really appreciate it if you could reinstate the classic smuggling so that we can enjoy it while we wait for Smuggling 2.0)

 

[Frenotx]

The Krait isn't perfect for smuggling. The python carries more cargo, and has a higher thermal capacity with the core modules. (This means it runs colder). The only possible benefit the Krait may have is a hidden variable that makes NPCs less likely to attempt a scan if they see you.

 

[h347h]

The Krait isn't perfect for smuggling. The python carries more cargo, and has a higher thermal capacity with the core modules. (This means it runs colder). The only possible benefit the Krait may have is a hidden variable that makes NPCs less likely to attempt a scan if they see you.

Welcome to 2014 dude.

 

[Frenotx]

Welcome to 2014 dude.

My point was, the Krait was billed as, "the smuggler's python", but in practice, the python is the superior smuggler ship. If you're just causally flying into the station and simply hoping the NPCs don't try to scan you, you aren't really smuggling right...

 

[DMC831]

The Krait isn't perfect for smuggling. The python carries more cargo, and has a higher thermal capacity with the core modules. (This means it runs colder). The only possible benefit the Krait may have is a hidden variable that makes NPCs less likely to attempt a scan if they see you.

"Perfect" wasn't meant to be taken literally, you can smuggle in anything. The Krait's design and spirit seems suited for smuggling in my opinion, as suggested by Frontier when discussing the ship.

More importantly, I am wondering WHY all long range smuggling and legal cargo missions were removed, why smuggling makes less than legal cargo hauling, and now we got a new ship that Frontier suggests is a good smuggler and pirate ship-- why are those career paths pretty much left behind currently?

In smuggling's case, there is at least a history of successful and fun missions with already programmed NPCs and everything.

If the conversation becomes what I'd like to see in an overhaul of smuggling to make it more engaging and challenging, we could be here all day. While it's easy for me to do, it's still more of a challenge than passenger missions and since there's an element of risk involved I'd love to see smuggling return as a mission type and career that actually pays.

 

[Lightspeed]

It's more ''diskrait" than the Python, so it doesn't show on police scanners

 

[bigity]

The Krait isn't perfect for smuggling. The python carries more cargo, and has a higher thermal capacity with the core modules. (This means it runs colder). The only possible benefit the Krait may have is a hidden variable that makes NPCs less likely to attempt a scan if they see you.

There is in fact, such a variable. Devs mentioned all ships have a value that determines how quickly security moves to scan said ship. The Krait apparently has an exceptionally low one.

 

[Frenotx]

"Perfect" wasn't meant to be taken literally, you can smuggle in anything. The Krait's design and spirit seems suited for smuggling in my opinion, as suggested by Frontier when discussing the ship.

More importantly, I am wondering WHY all long range smuggling and legal cargo missions were removed, why smuggling makes less than legal cargo hauling, and now we got a new ship that Frontier suggests is a good smuggler and pirate ship-- why are those career paths pretty much left behind currently?

In smuggling's case, there is at least a history of successful and fun missions with already programmed NPCs and everything.

If the conversation becomes what I'd like to see in an overhaul of smuggling to make it more engaging and challenging, we could be here all day. While it's easy for me to do, it's still more of a challenge than passenger missions and since there's an element of risk involved I'd love to see smuggling return as a mission type and career that actually pays.

What, in your mind, makes the Krait seem suited for smuggling? Besides having a lower "conspicuous-ness" hidden variable making you less likely to get scanned if you're casually flying in front of the cops, instead of actually trying to sneak.

There is in fact, such a variable. Devs mentioned all ships have a value that determines how quickly security moves to scan said ship. The Krait apparently has an exceptionally low one.

Yes, I realize that. Such a variable is only relevant if you're just flying where you can be seen, instead of actually trying to sneak (or blow past the cops faster than they can scan, as many smugglers prefer).

 

[DMC831]

What, in your mind, makes the Krait seem suited for smuggling? Besides having a lower "conspicuous-ness" hidden variable making you less likely to get scanned if you're casually flying in front of the cops, instead of actually trying to sneak.

Are you kidding around or something? It's a very reasonable smuggler, it doesn't need to be about "the best" or the most money-- the Krait has a very narrow profile and good boost speed and good cargo space, making it a nice smuggler. You seem to be thinking a "Krait is the best smuggler" point is being made. Several ships make for nice smugglers, including the Krait.

I am talking about the classic, fun smuggling missions, which the Krait would be very good for, as was the Asp and Cobra and T6 and etc etc. The Python can make more than them, but they all work great. Right now, ya often can't even take a smuggling/cargo mission without a Python or bigger because the cargo requirements are so high (the Krait becomes the 2nd medium pad ship able to take these missions though), but traditionally all of those ships are good smugglers.

I've made about 2 billion smuggling in Cobras and Asps and never got scanned; I have a decent handle on the mechanics of smuggling. BUT, that was all money made when smuggling paid well the other year, and we're in a situation where only passenger missions pay well and criminal careers have been largely ignored except in updates that seriously hamper their viability as a career. While I have money and can smuggle in anything if I wanna min/max, I prefer the fun of a ship like the Krait and want newer players to also enjoy the fun of smuggling (it's a LOT more fun if it pays).

Smuggling has missions and mission NPCs and their AI all already programmed, and I'd love to see "fail on scan" smuggling missions that pay well come back-- and people can use whatever ship they find suitable, or go for the most money and use a Python or larger.

 

[Ziljan]

My point was, the Krait was billed as, "the smuggler's python", but in practice, the python is the superior smuggler ship. If you're just causally flying into the station and simply hoping the NPCs don't try to scan you, you aren't really smuggling right...

Interesting, didn't know there was a black box stat for NPC attention. Have you tested the player detection range on both ships with cool running builds? And the heat % accumulation rate in Silent Running?

 

[Cmdr Ultra]

The Krait isn't perfect for smuggling. The python carries more cargo.

With this logic the T9 is a better smuggler.
I used one to smuggle hundreds of millions of credits worth of Imperial Slaves.
All you need is a heatsink.

 

[DMC831]

Smuggling has missions and mission NPCs and their AI all already programmed, and I'd love to see "fail on scan" smuggling missions that pay well come back

^^^ Basically, this is what I'm talking about (to prevent any misunderstanding). These missions haven't been in the game for a long time, and they were fun. I saw in 2.4 that the missions would spawn for 1 or 2 hours after a server shutdown so I know the missions are still possible and all programmed in the game, and I think it'd really help the game in a variety of ways-- more ways to make cash, have some skill based non-combat gameplay, and something for criminal players to indulge in.

(There's loads of things I'd like to see to make it all more CHALLENGING in the long run, but for now I'd be happy if the missions simply were allowed back in the game. Current smuggling and legal cargo missions are all one-hop short range missions, and the smuggling pays much less than legal cargo missions)

 

[kofeyh]

My point was, the Krait was billed as, "the smuggler's python", but in practice, the python is the superior smuggler ship. If you're just causally flying into the station and simply hoping the NPCs don't try to scan you, you aren't really smuggling right...

Dude, I like you, really - but stop theory crafting. Go fly the damned ship. It's actually using an in-game mechanic that makes it less 'noticeable' to system security. All ships can be used for just about every role because Frontier are a bit inclined to make multi-role too good. So i'm going to see how that actually works in practice; something spicy like illegal passengers outta make for some good testing.

Also python has a garbage flight model FA-Off, it's jump range is a bit naff once loaded up (assuming you can even find enough sneaky missions to load it up) and doesn't turn at all at speed (the only ship to feature dampening that is identical between FA-On and FA-Off it's so incredibly bad) which is typically a requirement for course-correction when avoiding the constabulary. So maybe go fly it (I'm sure you probably have but do it anyway) and then maybe the feedback in the appropriate ship forum makes sense. o7

Anyone smuggling back in the day was mostly using Asp because it was faster and had better jump range. Pythons were a rare sight. So if the krait can jump further, go faster, and not have all the reaction control of a 12 pound hammer on ice, then sign me up because cousin, I aim to misbehave.

--

Also I'd love to see genuine smuggling missions make a come back. Some of the best fun you can have, with your clothes on (or off, I don't judge).

 

[Cmdr Ultra]

We need high level smuggling missions where the Station kills you if the scan completes.

Not the patrol ships attacking you like now. But the Station destroying you like the old days of Criminal Mastermind passenger missions.

 

[DMC831]

Also I'd love to see genuine smuggling missions make a come back. Some of the best fun you can have, with your clothes on (or off, I don't judge).

Yeah, stuff like The Robigo Run were genuinely the most fun I've had in Elite, and in gaming in general really. That's the main reason I bring this up (and I've pushed it at other times; I am using the Krait as an opportunity to do it again)... it's just a fun career, but without missions failing when scanned AND with them paying so poorly right now, it just takes the wind out of the whole endeavor.

I feel like profitable, risky smuggling fits the world of Elite perfectly (that time I mean "perfect" literally), and I don't understand why the missions were both changed AND had their pay reduced so heavily... and some Anarchy factions that were previously smuggling hotspots don't even spawn missions at all still! No matter their system state.

It's just weird to me, and a huge missed opportunity for a game like this. The fact that the programming is already done for a really-damn-fun smuggling career makes it even weirder, since it's not like I'm asking for new mechanics... just reinstating ones that had been in the game from near the beginning, but removed for some reason the other year.

(I would love new and deeper mechanics for smuggling of course, but that feels like a less realistic and less productive conversation right now and I'm more than willing to "settle" for what we used to enjoy and which already was in the game and finished)

 

[DMC831]

We need high level smuggling missions where the Station kills you if the scan completes.

Not the patrol ships attacking you like now. But the Station destroying you like the old days of Criminal Mastermind passenger missions.

Exactly! They were the best, and had actual risk.

Speaking of passenger missions, why are there no long range (non-sightseeing) passenger transport missions? I'd love to transport a criminal who needs to leave his system to let the heat die down so I take them to the other side of the bubble to lay low.

 

[Majic-12]

Perhaps if we changed "perfect" to "suitable"...

 

[Frenotx]

Dude, I like you, really - but stop theory crafting. Go fly the damned ship. It's actually using an in-game mechanic that makes it less 'noticeable' to system security. All ships can be used for just about every role because Frontier are a bit inclined to make multi-role too good. So i'm going to see how that actually works in practice; something spicy like illegal passengers outta make for some good testing.

Also python has a garbage flight model FA-Off, it's jump range is a bit naff once loaded up (assuming you can even find enough sneaky missions to load it up) and doesn't turn at all at speed (the only ship to feature dampening that is identical between FA-On and FA-Off it's so incredibly bad) which is typically a requirement for course-correction when avoiding the constabulary. So maybe go fly it (I'm sure you probably have but do it anyway) and then maybe the feedback in the appropriate ship forum makes sense. o7

Anyone smuggling back in the day was mostly using Asp because it was faster and had better jump range. Pythons were a rare sight. So if the krait can jump further, go faster, and not have all the reaction control of a 12 pound hammer on ice, then sign me up because cousin, I aim to misbehave.

--

Also I'd love to see genuine smuggling missions make a come back. Some of the best fun you can have, with your clothes on (or off, I don't judge).

I swapped all of my modules (Except for the added fighter bay, and dropped HRP and MRP) from my python (the ship I had been flying before the patch) to my Krait. Flew it around the station, and went bounty hunting in a HAZ res in it for a while. Comparable jump range (makes sense- same FSD, similar mass). Slightly faster, but with noticeably worse lateral thrusters. Worse heat management. Both ships have terrible pitch outside of their blue zone. Both ships have their top speeds lowered considerably by less than 4 pips in ENG.

I would like to see smuggling missions come back, don't get me wrong. They were a lot of fun. I just don't understand all the raving that the Krait is a great smuggler. When I was doing smuggling stuff, I'd either slide in using silent running, or scream into the station at high enough speeds to not give the cops a chance to scan me. How likely the cops are to scan you if they see you (how conspicuous the ship is) doesn't really matter if you're doing either of those things, since the whole POINT is to not give the cops a chance to decided to scan or not scan you in the first place. Better thermal capacity would help with the cold approach (which the krait's is worst that the python's), and better lateral thrusters would help for the fast approach (which the krait's are worst than the python's).

I suppose if a ship had a PERFECT "conspicuous" variable such that cops NEVER attempted to scan you then it would be a great smuggler, but... I probably wouldn't use it for smuggling. If cops don't even try to scan you when you're visible, then it isn't really a smuggling mission. You don't have to sneak. It's just a regular delivery mission, at that point.

 

[DMC831]

I would like to see smuggling missions come back, don't get me wrong. They were a lot of fun. I just don't understand all the raving that the Krait is a great smuggler. When I was doing smuggling stuff, I'd either slide in using silent running, or scream into the station at high enough speeds to not give the cops a chance to scan me.

Yeah, my method in any ship is just to hurry through the slot real quick-like, and I almost never need to use a heat sink or engage silent running. As long as one can fly under control and go quick enough, you'll make it every time.

So I'd love it if it was more of a challenge and new mechanics were introduced that forced us to use colder running ships and all that.

Until then though, I'd be happy with the old missions returning. While I never had a problem avoiding a scan, I remember lots of people having issues with them (and criminal passenger missions). I still have fun hurrying through a mailslot and avoiding a scan even after 1600 hours, and I'd love it if newer and older players alike got to have that fun again.

If Frontier can manage to make system security more AGGRESSIVE, I'd be all for it! I also would like to see smuggling missions where planetary bases are the destination, so you can't just boost through a mail slot and be done with it... you'd have to watch the security and make sure the coast is clear a bit, or sneak in low over the surface.

I'd also love it if the ships that try to interdict a smuggler were engineered, fast ships, which'll prevent me from using a T9 or some other slow large ship. Smuggling was always my favourite thing to do, so I grumble about it getting gutted quite often.

BUT, I'd be happy for now if the simple original long and short range smuggling/hauling missions came back, and then we can hopefully steadily improve it over time.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Id still say that the first few weeks of robigo during the slave era were some of my best experiences in gaming.. the balance of risk and reward (over and above gains with the possibility of losing it all instantly,1.5 hours per run) and the fact there was real learning required made you really feel like a smuggler.

Really nothing has come close.. remember the first dozen or so times you were being raised out of the hanger with a full load of slaves, not certain if youd make it, looking over the gas giant, and went 'here we go!'. Amazing stuff. At the time i didn't know about fuel scoops, and there was no engineers, so always stopped at that 1/2 built station along the way. Even the people in open got some good value as it was one of the few valid scenarios in game where if you got ganked by another player it was 'supposed' to be like that.

Throwing out a guess, probably the one thing that they never managed to fix or supercede was the cause.. the npc interactions. Remember the swarm of 10-20 npcs that landed on you every drop? Maybe that damaged a server squirrel somewhere.

Also the passive aggressive modification to biowaste and no npc swarm i thought was poor taste

*EDIT: Back when the 'open' issue was still civil, always though that would have been the perfect outcome, setup a few anarchy systems where the open mission board gave ridiculous missions to create a valid gauntlet of pvp if you wanted some of the action. Ahh well.