The Limit Theory Thread

psyron

Banned
There is now suddenly a lot of discontentment going on in the LT forum. I predicted this many months ago.
Josh was quite happy with the hype and enforced it with his stylish and over-optimistic update videos.
Now he has to deal with it.

But hey, this is very common for developers doing their first big project. It's so difficult to focus on the bigger picture and not get over-optimistic by working on fancy details.

My recommendation for Josh would be to get in touch with the developer of "Banished" (Shining Rock Software) since this game has been developed by a single developer too, but has quite a good and complex gameplay. Maybe he could help Josh on explaining the basics for a good gameplay (and getting the game released).
 
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There is now suddenly a lot of discontentment going on in the LT forum. I predicted this many months ago.
Josh was quite happy with the hype and enforced it with his stylish and over-optimistic update videos.
Now he has to deal with it.

But hey, this is very common for developers doing their first big project. It's so difficult to focus on the bigger picture and not get over-optimistic by working on fancy details.

My recommendation for Josh would be to get in touch with the developer of "Banished" (Shining Rock Software) since this game has been developed by a single developer too, but has quite a good and complex gameplay. Maybe he could help Josh on explaining the basics for a good gameplay (and getting the game released).

As a very regular LT-forumite I have honestly no idea what you're talking about :S
 

psyron

Banned
As a very regular LT-forumite I have honestly no idea what you're talking about :S

Ignorance is bliss?
Even Josh is now admitting that things aren't going as smooth. He was forced to admit this since there are a lot of people questioning Josh's communication strategy. But you heard nothing from all this, hehe. Guess i am even more involved in LT then you guys. ;)
 
Could you show us an example of this "discontentment" over on the LT forums. I'm still having trouble finding what you're refering to.
 
Could you show us an example of this "discontentment" over on the LT forums. I'm still having trouble finding what you're refering to.

I hope he desnt because for me LT is the last little piece of kickstarter game that was about to deliver what it promised. ED already failed on this
 
Ignorance is bliss?
Even Josh is now admitting that things aren't going as smooth. He was forced to admit this since there are a lot of people questioning Josh's communication strategy. But you heard nothing from all this, hehe. Guess i am even more involved in LT then you guys. ;)
People stating concern that the current update system is unhealthy for Josh and saying he should take some time of is not what I would call "discontent"
 
Could you show us an example of this "discontentment" over on the LT forums. I'm still having trouble finding what you're refering to.

Well there was the issue i mentioned up thread, over the delay and difficulty in getting video update #21 out? After a monthly video update pattern, there suddenly was not one for two (well sort of three) months, and that DID create some rumblings, from forum users and from Josh himself promising he would do something about that. There have been some personal family issues during this time, so that probably has an effect too. But in general the 'discontent' is nowhere near the levels we are used to seeing on the Elite Forums more or less every day!

There has been ongoing discussion over Josh's work load and how he seems to push too hard sometime, so basically backers and forum goers telling Josh to take more time off (like the weekends etc). Josh has said himself that he is happy managing his workload and we shouldn't worry about him.

There has been ongoing minor grumblings over the use of 'space-rails'. Some people don't like them, some people do, Josh does.

But in all seriousness the biggest grumblings i have read about Limit Theory and Josh seem to come from our own psyron here, so make of that what you will :)

Josh and the Limit Theory forums are so chill compared to the Frontier Elite Dangerous forums......so yeah i'm kind of interested in what threads psyron has been finding that is a hidden hive of seething Limit Theory discontent? Is there a counter revolution going on somewhere? Are people threatening to get a refund? I'm seriously interested in what these stories are, care to give us some links psyron?

In terms of the claims of 'lack of gameplay', i don't quite see what that is about. Sure a game is a bunch of systems and features, and in each video update Josh has shown (mostly) different systems and features he is building into the game. He has not released any kind of footage of just pure gameplay that i know off, partially because the game is still in development, and outside from what the video's show us, not finished.

From what i can tell so far (in terms of gameplay so far) we have a procedural universe (or is it a galaxy actually? I might be getting mixed up with ED here?) where you control a ship which can be upgraded via cash (like in ED), and to get that cash you can do a number of activities, from mining to trading etc. You can see the AI create factions within a system that competes with the player and other AI factions. There are pirates. There is a very interesting economically based structure to the game, and most AI (and player) actions will flow from that. There is scanning of rare artifacts/materials that looks very interesting. You can shoot stuff, you can help factions out, you can mod the game.

There may be a few things i've missed out, but all those have been shown working in the developing game so far. And that IS gameplay, that is what a computer game is made up off. For sure we have not seen a complete game, because the game is not complete, but through Josh's dev blogs we can get a big picture on what the complete game might be like.

Somewhere between Elite, Freelancer and the X games, single player, moddable. That seems to be the MO he is working from and what comes across from the video's and blogs.
 
Ignorance is bliss?
Even Josh is now admitting that things aren't going as smooth. He was forced to admit this since there are a lot of people questioning Josh's communication strategy. But you heard nothing from all this, hehe. Guess i am even more involved in LT then you guys. ;)

Really? I've seen a few things over recent months but almost no one has complained about his lack of communication? You do know he pretty much writes a dev blog everyday, since he began? Here, this is how you communicate to your backers (Frontier could take a leaf from his book imho):

http://forums.ltheory.com/viewforum.php?f=12

Just dive in them. There is a lot they cover.

You are probably referring to the issue of just one video update over a couple of months i've mentioned a few times? And yes that was not by design because Josh himself set the pattern of an update video each month, to show the in-game progress of much of what he talks about in his dev diary. He has said he will change this system as it was not working out as planned recently, which is fair enough.

Now i'm not saying making a game like Limit Theory is easy, or that Josh has not found it sometimes hard, in part because if you have followed the dev blogs you get to see the whole picture of what is going on with Limit Theory (which i summed up post for you and others). But seriously psyron you come across as a bit of a Troll in relation to LT? Is there some personal wrong Josh has done you maybe? You are constantly claiming there is 'Fire!' when there isn't really any smoke. So what is your strategy here?

If you don't think the progress of LT has been nothing short of amazing (and possibly unique in game dev?) for a one man band, well i just don't think you have much experience around game dev (or software dev even)? Really the guy (Josh) is constantly hitting it for six, so why the sour grapes all the time?

This is a serious question, i'm no white knight (had plenty of experience of that in the ED forums to know it does not help!) for LT, i'm a very impartial observer, that happens to be informed about LT and follows the forum there (I post under the same name as here), i've worked around gave dev a bit, i've got a reasonable grasp of the complexity of doing a game like LT solo (or like David and Ian did with the original Elite back in '84). But i just don't see the issues you talk about, not in the dire situation terms you mostly talk about, so i am just interested to get the details on your perspective here? Do tell :)
 
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psyron

Banned
You guys need a fight i guess ... sorry but i am the wrong guy for this.
If you get things personal then so be it.
Read what i have posted previously (entire post). Those are my thoughts and i stay concerned about LT.
Think what you want - time will prove me right.
LT is on a very critical path. If things will not change LT will fail.
 
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Read what i have posted previously (entire post). Those are my thoughts and i stay concerned about LT.

I did go back (quite a bit) to see what you had been posting, and no i didn't specifically find the issues you were alluding too sadly. But at least you have said this. These things you are talking about are your perceptions, your concerns, and that is fine, you are free to think what you like about anything you like :)

Just don't be too defensive when shouting 'Fire!' and people ask 'Where?'.
 

psyron

Banned
I did go back (quite a bit) to see what you had been posting, and no i didn't specifically find the issues you were alluding too sadly. But at least you have said this. These things you are talking about are your perceptions, your concerns, and that is fine, you are free to think what you like about anything you like :)

Just don't be too defensive when shouting 'Fire!' and people ask 'Where?'.

I am in NO WAY defensive! LT will fail if Josh is continuing the way he is managing this project. Got it? Fine.
I posted the reasons why i think so many times, will not repeat it for you.
 
I hope Josh never listens to naysayers like you (despite the fact that you clearly don´t want to buy the projects you are constantly complain about because they don´t follow the holy development approach of elite...). All you do is spraying toxic in this forum. I never hear anything positiv in this threads so why do you even bother to follow this threads?

I think that he manages this project alone and has come this far is a success. So keep doing what you do!
 

psyron

Banned
I hope Josh never listens to naysayers like you (despite the fact that you clearly don´t want to buy the projects you are constantly complain about because they don´t follow the holy development approach of elite...). All you do is spraying toxic in this forum. I never hear anything positiv in this threads so why do you even bother to follow this threads?

I think that he manages this project alone and has come this far is a success. So keep doing what you do!

The only thing you can do is getting personal. Let me guess your age: 16-23.
Believe what you want, but ...
 
I am in NO WAY defensive! LT will fail if Josh is continuing the way he is managing this project. Got it? Fine.
I posted the reasons why i think so many times, will not repeat it for you.

Fail, really? The game will fail if Josh runs out of money before release, otherwise it will not fail. It is as simple as that really. Even at the stage it is now rivals ED in gameplay and in some areas graphics and surpasses ED in UI.

The only cost is Josh's living cost, and for all we know he could go on for anouther year or two or more ?
 

psyron

Banned
Fail, really? The game will fail if Josh runs out of money before release, otherwise it will not fail. It is as simple as that really. Even at the stage it is now rivals ED in gameplay and in some areas graphics and surpasses ED in UI.

The only cost is Josh's living cost, and for all we know he could go on for anouther year or two or more ?

Now you must be kidding. But fine. Believe what you want.
 
Now you must be kidding. But fine. Believe what you want.

:rolleyes:

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Well i'd agree with psyron that LT is not as finished as ED in many area's of the game, but having said that as a different game compared to ED it does what it does very well and for sure, just going on the progress so far, i have no concerns that LT when it is released will be a great space sim game to have in your collection. And don't forget the modding! This game will be awesome for years after the servers for SC and ED are switched off (sadly).
 
Well i'd agree with psyron that LT is not as finished as ED in many area's of the game, but having said that as a different game compared to ED it does what it does very well and for sure, just going on the progress so far, i have no concerns that LT when it is released will be a great space sim game to have in your collection. And don't forget the modding! This game will be awesome for years after the servers for SC and ED are switched off (sadly).

Star Citizen will also have modding support and servers not connected to the PU.. Just so its said.
 
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