The new Fleet Carriers

[The Kat]

I posted this to reddit so figure I would post this here.

I do not care for the way they are handling fleet carriers. There I said it. Here's my opinion(and I know that's just what it is. An opinion).

Fleet carriers should not be personal. I know it's cool to have a giant battlecruiser for all your ships but I do not think these epic starships should just be our personal garage.

Here is my ideas:

1) Make fleet carriers squadrons ships. Get rid of the different kinds, like bountyhunter/trader/miner/etc, and make it a single customizable ship on the outside. Make it so your squadron can actually be engaged with this ship. Have it cost a good amount but all the squadron members can pitch in towards the goal.

2) With fleet carriers being squadron based, designed them to be requiring some upkeep. Besides fuel needed to jump, have them need different materials for things. Specifically for refuel, repair, and restock(Triple R). Example: say your hydrogen fuel reserves are low for refueling. Require the squadron to gather some hydrogen from markets or deposit from fuel tanks. Make it so outfitting your squadron carrier is a task. Such as bringing in materials to unlock outfitting, certain modules, different skins/aesthetics, and other things. Then with a cargo bay it can be a sort of squadron bank that allows your group to store some engineering mats(not too many) and also some commodities like void opals for the rare occasion that a squad mate is getting dangerously low on credits. Maybe separate tabs for engineering mats, commodities, and commodities/mats needed for jumping/triple R.

3) CREATE A PERSONAL CARRIER! I do like the idea of a personal carrier but not this big battleship that is more realistically for squadrons. Make it a small outpost sized ship with 1 large, 2 medium, and 3 small landing pads. Drop the lightyear jumprange by half or even to 200lys. Make this the different kind of carrier for bounty hunters, traders, miners, pirates, etc. Too make it more balanced, allow Triple R at this carrier without needing the upkeep. Have it just a simple carrier that we can design aesthetically and then put the different carrier types listed above that you plan on using for the fleet carriers already onto this type of carrier. We could use this carrier as you have already laid out in the fleet carriers you announced, however it will be more of a convenience than a fully functional battle station for staging pve/pvp attacks on other factions/squadrons. Allow it to be accessible just like the fleet carrier announced, while the squadron carrier only for the squadron.

4) If implemented, create a sort of balance with the two. Maybe not allowing outfitting in the personal carrier but allowing it in the squadron carrier. Perhaps making it so the personal carrier can only hold one ship for each pad per character while the fleet carrier can hold a couple more. How about working around the different kind of personal carriers to incentivize using it for certain things, such as interstellar factor for pirate/bounty hunters, bounty hunters get a higher reward for using their carrier to turn in bounties, pirates get some cargo space, explorers can turn in their exploration data and get another 50ly boost on their carrier jump, etc. Add ways to work around both and make players want to balance between the two for small scale on personal carriers and large scale operations with squadron carriers.



Well guys that's my little rant sort of. I know it's just a rambling of opinion but honestly I thought that would be a much better idea than just these large starport battleships just for ourselves. If you guys have any ideas that would compliment this, just post them below! Or if valid criticism on why it shouldn't be the way I said, or a different way, then post that as well!

 

[Monkey Pants]

Already a long diatribe about what you don't like straight after an announcement.

Thanks for letting us know your opinion.

Don't hold your breath that they will change it to suit your wishes.

MP

 

[The Kat]

Already a long diatribe about what you don't like straight after an announcement.

Thanks for letting us know your opinion.

Don't hold your breath that they will change it to suit your wishes.

MP

Cool story.

If you would have read the post, you would see that I like the idea but think it could be implemented better.

Nope holding my breath. Cause obviously fdev caters to me and me alone. Didn't know I couldn't post an idea/opinion. Obviously the words in my post is just DEMANDING fdev do specifically what I say. People see something new and want to discuss it and even their ideas on it, not just jerk each other off to information blatantly in front of us.

 

[Teh Smoo]

I don't think that I need 16 different landing pads on a personal carrier, tbh. I want refitting a LOT more. And what's the "special fuel" they're gonna use? We're not just mounting a lot of tanks and an A-rank scoop on a big ship?

Mainly, I'd like loadout favorites (mining, AX, general purpose) that I can flip between without having to spend 15 minutes switching modules, and invariably forgetting something. And with a carrier, I can just leave all my toys in the mobile toybox! And 1000ly will be two jumps! And you can fly around small ships without CARING about jump range!

I wouldn't mind if someone else used it. Not sure if OTHER people should be able to refit in a carrier not their own, as it would either make modules unreachable until shipped out, or let people track you around the galaxy.

 

[The Kat]

I don't think that I need 16 different landing pads on a personal carrier, tbh. I want refitting a LOT more. And what's the "special fuel" they're gonna use? We're not just mounting a lot of tanks and an A-rank scoop on a big ship?

Mainly, I'd like loadout favorites (mining, AX, general purpose) that I can flip between without having to spend 15 minutes switching modules, and invariably forgetting something. And with a carrier, I can just leave all my toys in the mobile toybox! And 1000ly will be two jumps! And you can fly around small ships without CARING about jump range!

I wouldn't mind if someone else used it. Not sure if OTHER people should be able to refit in a carrier not their own, as it would either make modules unreachable until shipped out, or let people track you around the galaxy.

Yah and I understand lots of people have a huge fleet, but the enormous amounts of landing pads would be suited for a squadron carrier. They haven't announced what the special fuel is. Probably a new material to go find. Watch it be void opals lol.

That's what I thought! With a personal carrier like I suggested, you can easily swap stuff out easily and keep a dedicated couple of ships always with you.

As they said in the announcement, pretty sure they did(?), you can toggle if you want others to be allowed to land at your carrier or not. Idk how it will work yet with what they're planning, but I would do a sort of toggle like wing beacon. Either allow for squadron only, friends/squadrons, or anyone. Idk how they are deciding what to do with that part of the carriers yet though, just that you will be able to decide.

 

[Teh Smoo]

Hm, and how do you get more than one ship into the thing? Can you buy a sidewinder in it? Can you have them shipped in? (So... jumping around to the system to minimize shipping costs, heh.)

 

[The Kat]

Hm, and how do you get more than one ship into the thing? Can you buy a sidewinder in it? Can you have them shipped in? (So... jumping around to the system to minimize shipping costs, heh.)

Maybe have them shipped to it. Have a shipyard with only a sidewinder purchasable or something and only be able to store the amount of pads worth for the player.

 

[BinakAlgo]

Not even 24 hours after the announcement and we already have a nagging thread

 

[The Kat]

Not even 24 hours after the announcement and we already have a nagging thread

I find it funny that you can't offer and ideas, opinions, or anything that goes against what Fdev implements without it being nagging or complaining. Can't even throw something out onto the forums that you 100% KNOW isn't gonna be implemented like you said without someone complaining about your post. Yeah cause I'm gonna complain and nag when fdev have already announced their fleet carriers and how they are going to be. But nope. I KNOW that posting will change their mind.

The truth is fdev is god awful at optimizing this game and you can't criticize it and say what you feel would be a better way of implementing the design without the forum guardians acting like you can't speak your mind about a game you play. Yeah I know carriers are gonna be implemented in the way fdev said. Doesn't mean I can't think of something I feel might be a better way. But nope. I'm nagging and Fdev needs to cater to me right now cause I said so. How dare I say one thing and that's fleet carriers should be squadron and not personal.

 

[lenna]

I don't think that I need 16 different landing pads on a personal carrier, tbh. I want refitting a LOT more. And what's the "special fuel" they're gonna use? We're not just mounting a lot of tanks and an A-rank scoop on a big ship?

I think the point is that the carriers are being implemented in a way that is more consistent with FD's overall approach to ED as a whole. They seem to be intentionally designed so they can scale in utility from solo to wing to squadron - hence the 16 L/4 M/ 4 S.

From the sounds of things, they are not going to be cheap though... expect to have to spend at least 500M for one if not a lot more.

Ownership

• Purchasable with a large amount of credits.
• One Fleet Carrier per Commander. Available for base game and Horizons players.

Fuel wise, I would not be surprised if it is some form of natural (e.g. available from mining) resource or produced on board from such resources. How much fuel can be stored, how it is obtained, and how much is used per jump or per LY has not been made clear but I would not be surprised if it is consistent with the fuel requirements to move Jacques.

Travel

• 500 LY jump range (per jump)
• Schedule jumps from the Galaxy Map when you want and from wherever you are in the galaxy.
• Commanders require a unique resource to fuel the Fleet Carrier in order for it to jump.

I can see a proliferation of personal carriers being especially useful in long range expeditions. A personal carrier every 500/250 Ly could allow people to catch up with the rest of the group for example by docking with someones carrier and then the owners of the carriers in the chain switching/leap-frogging each other on an as needed basis (c/f a logistics chain/train of supply/support trucks).

Capacity

• Fleet Carriers have a total of 16 Landing Pads, composed of:
  • 8 Large
  • 4 Medium
  • 4 Small
• Set permissions to allow others to dock at your Fleet Carrier.

From the looks of things, it sounds like we will have ship refit/swapping capability with at least some of the load-outs but refuel/refit/rearm will be a consistent feature.

Operations

• All Fleet Carriers feature rearm, refuel and repair services.
• Commanders can choose a number of loadouts for their Fleet Carrier, governing services/module and ship availability to support a number of different activities, such as:
  • Bounty Hunter
  • Mercenary
  • Pirate
  • Trader
  • Smuggler
  • Miner
  • Explorer
  • Search and Rescue

In short, it sounds like FD have taken on-board all the feedback regarding Fleet Carriers since all the discussion started and come up with something that should be a workable compromise.

What seems clear is that they are unlikely to be the "Battlecruisers" that some have seemingly been hoping for but more like a (mini?)-mega-ship. They should be usable as both a squadron and a personal asset based on what FD have disclosed to date but in fact at a squadron level they should be more useful in their personal carrier form since any given squadron would not be restricted to having just one and a squadron could have access to different types of carrier this way.

 

[Vasious]

I find it funny that you can't offer and ideas, opinions, or anything that goes against what Fdev implements without it being nagging or complaining. Can't even throw something out onto the forums that you 100% KNOW isn't gonna be implemented like you said without someone complaining about your post. Yeah cause I'm gonna complain and nag when fdev have already announced their fleet carriers and how they are going to be. But nope. I KNOW that posting will change their mind.

The truth is fdev is god awful at optimizing this game and you can't criticize it and say what you feel would be a better way of implementing the design without the forum guardians acting like you can't speak your mind about a game you play. Yeah I know carriers are gonna be implemented in the way fdev said. Doesn't mean I can't think of something I feel might be a better way. But nope. I'm nagging and Fdev needs to cater to me right now cause I said so. How dare I say one thing and that's fleet carriers should be squadron and not personal.

the Truth is that when Fleet Carriers were first announced, they were announced as Squadron only, and even tere would need to be a minimum >1 number of Commanders in that squadron to get them

This lead to many debates over that, this is just one of the threads here

Please reconsider fleet carriers for solo players.

DISAPPOINTMENT DENIED!!!!!! THANKYOU FRONTIER!!!! Beyond all hope it changed. Really looking forward to trying this out later this year. Will have to find a cosmetic as a thankyou again. Its been a while. Also id like to extend condolences to Max Factor and the Grumpy Naysayers about their...

forums.frontier.co.uk

and it seems that debate may have changed FDevs mind

So it isn't that you cannot have an opinion, but that you've come across as if he hasn't been a many year debate already and your idea is new

 

[Berpol]

Why would someone want a carrier ship?

• Prestige object (let everyone see that you have enough money to buy one).
• Very far jumping (use that 500 ly to go where no man has gone before).
• Home away from home (a base where you need it).
• Squadron actions (used as a base, gathering point and repair station, depending on the price I hope a squadron can pool their money).
• Storage (given that there is a trader option Ida and others can finally reach the damaged stations with more than 700t one at a time).

Perhaps next year we will see more options (different sizes, imperial look...).
I wonder if carriers will change things like trading CGs (buying hundreds of kilotons in one system, jump, carrying it insystem to the target station) and if they are also attacked by thargoids.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

By making carriers available to individuals, they automatically become available for co-op play without the exclusivity of limiting them to squadron leadership.

In fact, by making them open to individuals, we'll see far more variation in their use for squadrons than if they were specifically limited to squadrons by design.

 

[BinakAlgo]

I find it funny that you can't offer and ideas, opinions, or anything that goes against what Fdev implements without it being nagging or complaining. Can't even throw something out onto the forums that you 100% KNOW isn't gonna be implemented like you said without someone complaining about your post. Yeah cause I'm gonna complain and nag when fdev have already announced their fleet carriers and how they are going to be. But nope. I KNOW that posting will change their mind.

The truth is fdev is god awful at optimizing this game and you can't criticize it and say what you feel would be a better way of implementing the design without the forum guardians acting like you can't speak your mind about a game you play. Yeah I know carriers are gonna be implemented in the way fdev said. Doesn't mean I can't think of something I feel might be a better way. But nope. I'm nagging and Fdev needs to cater to me right now cause I said so. How dare I say one thing and that's fleet carriers should be squadron and not personal.

I don't know if you are being sarcastic or you are too new using the forums. There have been several "debates" already as the fleet carriers were expected for the "Beyond" season that's about 2 years ago. On those threads, the case was made to make the carriers available for personal purchase and it seems the Devs listened. If your point of view was overlooked then I'm sorry but they had to make a decision and they did.

About the current "debate", besides a couple of videos and limited information, I have no objective experience to make an informed and constructive criticism or give an insightful opinion. Not to mention that even then I have no instruction or experience in game developing, gameplay mechanics, online community management or anything related to introducing a new feature to a game.

Of course, you are free to post your criticisms and opinions and, so far, I've not seen anyone being censored when they do in a respectful way, but if you want to keep beating a dead horse, go ahead, I and others will probably make fun of you.

 

[Sea_Kerman]

I like your ideas, Kat. That’s what I imagined the carriers would be.

 

[Teh Smoo]

I wonder who the first person to take one over to Beagle Point will be? I'd imagine people will use an exploration support, which I would ASSUME would enable data selling. So no more need to go to bubble, just go to the nearest carrier.

ACTUALLY! 500ly range means that those heretofore unreachable systems will be reachable now! Fuel Rats rescue carriers! Easy repairs wherever!

My concern is fitting. If fitting (and loadouts, I'd like mining/general purpose gear sets myself) isn't available, carriers will just be a toy. A good movement and utility toy, but fitting is very big. I can deal with having to buy anything above E-rank gear (or get materials to craft it) but switching and shipping gear is just THAT important to me.

 

[Neil_Trayce]

There's a couple of insights about "squadron" vs "solo".
If there's solo carrier it would be a joke. A station-ship that's maintainable by one and only player. Too easy. I admit there are people who just won't do multiplayer for whatever reason, and they have the right to enjoy the game as it is. But what do squadrons worth now for those who would like communicating with other players?
The squadrons are now useless, in terms of gameplay. People just don't have the reason to gather in groups, as literally everything is doable solo. FDev are just killing the whole idea of squadrons with letting "one fleet carrier per commander", by endorsing selfishness.

I've got over 2500 hours in an economy simulation multiplayer game, about flying various things to various places, the name isn't really relevant. Devs of that simulation made similar error, they wiped out all benefits of doing business as a team, except for maybe one. So there are lots of "one man show" airlines there who fly solo even the heavy iron like DC-7s or BAe-146s or Dash-8s. Because they can. There's no limit on most airframe types, the only limited resource is cargo jobs, but these respawn, and everybody gets their cut. There are tons of possibilities, with owning properties, leasing/renting them and aircraft out. Except for if that's not a "big iron", only few will ever consider renting or lease - just because they can, because there's no barriers for grinding up to a million to own some medium-size hauler. No ratings, no licenses, no progression at all, everything available from the start, and money isn't much of a problem to earn. Hence, there's no justification for pilots to join groups, because they, for once, can afford anything, and next, they are too greedy to let some fraction of profit away for supplying group's expenses, cause in solo play they will "earn money faster".
Ofc the players of that simulation are mostly selfish and sociopatic. But if there were ways of making them work in teams, they would've become less selfish at least. The competitors to that economic simulation did a good move, they implemented ratings, so nobody can fly a big iron if there's no active class and type ratings. And to earn type rating one with PPL would employ with a group that flies the said "big iron".
(Ah, and there's also simulation networks, where you should have certain number of participants in a group to be able to fly under a virtual airline callsign. That's the only reason to gather in groups there).

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I'm quite happy they made FCs ownable by a single person.

And here's the cool part, the really cool part, if you want to use one for your squadron, you can! You just say, "This is our squadron carrier" and ta da! You can use it like one.

 

[M00ka]

FD had to make the FC available to be purchased by a single person. If they went the other way (Squadron owned) that opens up a whole can of worms:

(1) FD would have to come up with a way for players to transfer credits between each other, and a set hierarchy for squadrons - i.e. who controls the credits for the squadron. What is to stop the leader of the Squadron to just kick out everyone in the squadron once they have the carrier and keeping the carrier for himself?

(2) Set rules for the operation of the FC, who has the say on when and where it is moved to? If this isn't done, what is to stop one disgruntled player from taking the FC somewhere with everyone's ships on it just for es and giggles.

(3) What happens when someone leaves the squadron, should they get reimbursed for the credits they provided to buy the FC?

 

[Neil_Trayce]

re (1) - it's a thing many players have been waiting for long, at the moment the absence of trade means between players, except for barter of caargo, is another factor opposing Open play and teamwork. As for scammers, they could be reported and limited to solo only, couldn't they?
re (2) - so be it permission-based, to become a carrier helmsman. problem solved, either squadron leader or the leader's trustee will be the one who decide where and when to. happens IRL, remember that suicidal Airbus pilot? so the system isn't perfect, yet it can exist.
re (3) I think is no different than a person entering motorcycle club ot purchasing share in an aircraft. e.g. situation-dependant, after all they agree with squadron set of rules upon enlisting, aren't they?