The New Guilds and Player Owned Stations Discussion Thread.

[Bacalao]

This is a really twisted perception of reality that I don't even know how to approach. I sincerely hope for your own sake that this isn't the same perspective you treat other people with in your daily interactions.

Of course not, but then in my daily interactions I don't have people that will intentionally do things to waste my time for their own personal enjoyment simply because they can get away with it. This is the internet and online gaming, a very combat oriented online game, I sincerely hope you don't approach it like you do your daily life. Clever, albeit poorly masked way of avoiding any type of rebuttal or argument though.

It's fine that you want guilds, but it isn't this lovely win-win-win scenario you have all rosily mapped out. It's a system that would be abused and lead to an unhealthy in game community as seen in many other games. EVE and WoW (PvP realms) are the two I am most familiar with and the concerns presented here are totally validated by those two examples alone.

 

[Stigbob]

Acceptable by who? Are you now in charge of the rulebook that everyone should follow? And you dare talk about childish? Wow.

You complain you are not getting answers as to why some people don't like guilds, now your complaining about getting answers.

I think I'll use the forum "solo bypass" and pop you onto my ignore list.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Because other guilds do not feel it necessary to get away from Open. Simple.

.... which rather supports the contention that Mobius Private Group is not a Guild at all, rather a group of players who do not wish to endure non-consensual PvP.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Of course not, but then in my daily interactions I don't have people that will intentionally do things to waste my time for their own personal enjoyment simply because they can get away with it. This is the internet and online gaming, a very combat oriented online game, I sincerely hope you don't approach it like you do your daily life. Clever, albeit poorly masked way of avoiding any type of rebuttal or argument though.

It's fine that you want guilds, but it isn't this lovely win-win-win scenario you have all rosily mapped out. It's a system that would be abused and lead to an unhealthy in game community as seen in many other games. EVE and WoW (PvP realms) are the two I am most familiar with and the concerns presented here are totally validated by those two examples alone.

Look, let me break it down like this....

I am one of the most paranoid gamers you will ever find on the face of this planet. Yeah I used to play Eve. I used to sleep 2 hours a night while playing it because I'd be too busy scheming and trying to figure out what everyone else is scheming that I couldn't close my eyes. I used to spend days setting up convoluted traps, days avoiding convoluted traps that may or may not have been just in my imagination, etc... But I have never assumed that EVERYONE was out to get me as you are describing, not even in Eve online, not even when I was surviving purely off of caffeine and conspiracies.

If I had to game with your perspective on the situation I'd smash my monitor and never touch an online game again. I think you need to re-evaluate the situation.

- - - Updated - - -

.... which rather supports the contention that Mobius Private Group is not a Guild at all, rather a group of players who do not wish to endure non-consensual PvP.

Wishes don't make or unmake a guild. Actions do. Mobius acts as a guild.

 

[Bacalao]

Look, let me break it down like this....

I am one of the most paranoid gamers you will ever find on the face of this planet. Yeah I used to play Eve. I used to sleep 2 hours a night while playing it because I'd be too busy scheming and trying to figure out what everyone else is scheming that I couldn't close my eyes. I used to spend days setting up convoluted traps, days avoiding convoluted traps that may or may not have been just in my imagination, etc... But I have never assumed that EVERYONE was out to get me as you are describing, not even in Eve online, not even when I was surviving purely off of caffeine and conspiracies.

If I had to game with your perspective on the situation I'd smash my monitor and never touch an online game again. I think you need to re-evaluate the situation.

Where in any of my post did I assume that ALL players would behave that way? Like I've said, now for the third time, it only takes one bad apple to ruin the bin. You only need a few guilds to behave like ats to ruin the experience for the majority of players, just like one single OP weapon can break combat, it's just one weapon after all. There isn't a way to balance that situation, it becomes a runaway train, and then you're just watching the carnage, again, like we've seen in many other online games, as evidenced by statements former/current Eve players, including yourself, have made in this thread.

To date I don't believe anyone in ED has been kept up at night trying to scheme about how to get past the Mobius blockade.

 

[CMDR Commander]

You demanded examples I've given them to you, you can't or won't answer the points I've raised.

To clarify for you, I enjoy PvP when I'm in the mood, I enjoy Mobius when I'm in the mood and I enjoy solo when I'm in a mood.

I already have safe passage in the form of my A rated FDL.

I just don't like the effect guilds have on games, they restrict non-guild players and encourage mass-attery.

I've asked for solid arguments and you've failed to provide them. The behaviour you deem unworthy is already happening, and if you're getting ganked in your FDL by a wing of four FDL you'll still get rekt. Nothing changes for you.

What points did you raise? That a lone pilot is vulnerable to a wing of baddies? Already happening.

Disadvantage for him? Sure is. Strenght is always in numbers, it's maybe not fair but it's how it is.

He should have a chance to escape a sticky situatio... Oh wait, he already has! Run, fight, switch instance, go to solo or stick to his favourite safety group.

That's how the discussion works, opponents attack your arguments if you present them as such.

If it's your opinion than just state it as such, don't run around trying to shut down the opposition for disagreeing with it because they have their own opinion too.

---

 

[Asp Explorer]

Yeah I used to play Eve. I used to sleep 2 hours a night while playing it because I'd be too busy scheming and trying to figure out what everyone else is scheming that I couldn't close my eyes. I used to spend days setting up convoluted traps, days avoiding convoluted traps that may or may not have been just in my imagination, etc...

Luxury! I spend about 6 hours a night sleeping! I spend days doing this thing called "work" in a very tight-knit guild (me and my two employees) working alongside another guild (my customer) for intense real-life PvP against opposing guilds (their business competition), all the time avoiding conspiracies from rival guilds (my competition) and hapless clueless PUG's (the general public).

After a hard day of l33t skllz and going solo 2v1 against the Project Managers - I can enjoy a quiet beer in the Drunks Of Sol Guildhouse (any bar I can find!)

Wishes don't make or unmake a guild. Actions do. Mobius acts as a guild.

Best ask Mobius if his group is a guild or not. I don't think he's sitting there cracking a whip and bellowing "Trade MOAR you filthy pubbies! My TRIBUTE!!"

 

[Cody]

... the cowards way out of the discussion.

Ah yes, the playground taunts again - sweet!

 

[Asp Explorer]

Ah yes, the playground taunts again - sweet!

Indeed. It's no longer a discussion when one side resorts to (extremely poor) insults. Must try harder.

 

[CMDR Commander]

Ah yes, the playground taunts again - sweet!

I don't know, maybe in your echochamber tricks like that are highly appreciated, but in a normal discussion you provide arguments and defend them not run away when things go wrong.

 

[jabokai]

Wishes don't make or unmake a guild. Actions do. Mobius acts as a guild.

And you saying stuff that is a load of old cobblers doesn't make it fact. Mobius is a PvE group (or server if you want to compare it to other games). Within Mobius there may even be proper player organised PvE guilds, I don't even know. But I do know that the group is not a guild.

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

Luxury! I spend about 6 hours a night sleeping! I spend days doing this thing called "work" in a very tight-knit guild (me and my two employees) working alongside another guild (my customer) for intense real-life PvP against opposing guilds (their business competition), all the time avoiding conspiracies from rival guilds (my competition) and hapless clueless PUG's (the general public).

After a hard day of l33t skllz and going solo 2v1 against the Project Managers - I can enjoy a quiet beer in the Drunks Of Sol Guildhouse (any bar I can find!)



Best ask Mobius if his group is a guild or not. I don't think he's sitting there cracking a whip and bellowing "Trade MOAR you filthy pubbies! My TRIBUTE!!"

I stopped playing Eve because it was stressing me out more than my job. All of that and I still didn't assume the worst case scenario.

If Mobius Did he'd probably have twice as many members.

 

[Asp Explorer]

I stopped playing Eve because it was stressing me out more than my job.

Sorry to hear that. Games should be all about entertainment and enjoyment - it's no good if they stress you out - work and real life already do enough of that

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Poor Windscreen Smudge...

Gets stressed out playing a game based on guilds and skullduggery.
​

..and has to stop playing. However...

Wants to turn new game into one based based on guilds and skullduggery.​

Looks like meme material to me.

Also - after looking at this thread with fresh eyes, I've cottoned onto the tactics being used by Mr Smudge and at least two others here.

Suffice to say that we're all being played by these characters.

More on that tomorrow. I'm off to bed now.

 

[Malpherian]

Out of curiosity - let's just assume for a moment that we're NEVER getting Guild support.

Let's also assume that MOST of the things guilds want can be done off-game, and the desire for their inclusion is simply quality-of-life related.


What can be done OUT OF GAME to simplify things for these kind of guilders? Is there a way to create a one-stop-shopping kind of webpage that makes things simple and easy for guilders to organize? A template that new guilders can use to create their own. That includes everything they need in easy to access format?

In short, can they be given to tools to improve their quality-of-life out of the game and get what they want now instead of begging for updates that, even if they were added, probably wouldn't be so for a year or more?

The problem with out of game guilding is that there is no real connection or notifications about activity of guild members or other needed and relevant info.

In addition most People are casual gamers and do not have the luxury of 2. Monitors. So alt taking every so often to check chats and or guild notices can be not only inconvenient and annoying but in a game like this very dangerous.

 

[Dave1235]

what else are guilds going to do? Pat each other on the back and say "nice credit balance! Enjoy a peaceful evenings trading. Our guild will be engaging in Shieldless Sidewinder Stacking at Lave tonight."

Having played many games over the decades (and been in and lead Guilds) that is not the kind of thing that typically happens

I am starting to warm to guilds, if they have shared ships in a hanger I might even join to borrow a Conda for the evening, my only worry is that I have a terrible memory and might forget to return it, or maybe the insurance. I don't think they would like me much, best I stay away thinking about it

 

[Mohrgan]

The problem with out of game guilding is that there is no real connection or notifications about activity of guild members or other needed and relevant info.

In addition most People are casual gamers and do not have the luxury of 2. Monitors. So alt taking every so often to check chats and or guild notices can be not only inconvenient and annoying but in a game like this very dangerous.

The solution seems to be in-game communication tools. I am not aware of any complaints on that front. I was lead to understand that player groups were going to be represented as minor factions, and players would be able to adopt minor factions. Has this changed?

 

[Asp Explorer]

The problem with out of game guilding is that there is no real connection or notifications about activity of guild members or other needed and relevant info.

In addition most People are casual gamers and do not have the luxury of 2. Monitors. So alt taking every so often to check chats and or guild notices can be not only inconvenient and annoying but in a game like this very dangerous.

Who doesn't have a smartphone these days? (yes I know - some do, including me for emergencies). How many "casual gamers" will be bothered to check on guild activity? What information is relevant and needed for them? Buy a dedicated laptop or tablet for this sort of thing - grab a $60 cheapo Android landfill.

 

[WlLL0W]

Indeed. It's no longer a discussion when one side resorts to (extremely poor) insults. Must try harder.

thats what makes me laugh about this thread,

the people who are arguing for guilds are some of the most obnoxious and insulting posters on the forum

and THEY want to be able to form a groups!!!!,

not only that they keep on saying how good it would be for the game!!!!

and they dont seem to have any idea how they come across to other people

it beggers belief.

 

[M00ka]

Wow, just spent over an hour catching up on the overnight posts – emotive bunch aren’t we! For the record, I am against Guilds in Elite – there I said it, let them belittling begin

In my experience, Guilds/Group/Clans/Brotherhoods of the Keyboard, call it what you want but they only represent one thing: POWER. Power to the Guild leader, he finally has a purpose in life; he is king of his domain. He is the ultimate power in the group, HE IS GOD! He decides who is in and who is out, who to attack, who to deny access to. Power to the second tier leaders over the minions in the Guild, they finally have someone they can boss around and lord over, all hoping that one day they can rise up to the next level. Power to the Guild over those who aren’t in that Guild, they can finally justify those bully boy tactics. They aren’t in it for social interaction, they aren’t in it to keep up with their mates, if that is the excuse, use FaceBook, it is much easier and you can use webcams.

The introduction of Guilds is a dead issue, under the current architecture of the game, it just won’t work. With the way the servers work they won’t get the 1,000 ship battles they so crave for. They won’t get that station, that System to call their own and rule like a Third World Dictator. They won’t be able to amass vast fortune, own a fleet of capital ships, and destroy pesky stations that refuse to abide by their rules. At the most, they will just be a bunch of players with the same prefix running around feeling like they are important and complaining endlessly in the forums.

One thing that has been mentioned is where these Guilds say they will operate. Well I bet it won’t be on the other side of the Universe. They will want to be in the populated space, they need, well crave non Guild members to attack, to bully. Otherwise they would have to fight amongst themselves and that just isn’t on is it!

Finally on the content of this thread: It is pretty evident that some of the pro-Guild respondents still crave Eve, we have been reminded about it enough times. I suspect they would much prefer Elite to be renamed EIAC (Eve In A Cockpit). But if Eve is/was so good, so fully of adventure, processed such dramatic and enthralling game play, why did they leave? Maybe it was because they never reached the lofty levels in the Corporations there, and want to carve out their own niche of power here. Whatever the reason, I think they didn’t look at the game before purchasing it, or thought they could change the entire paradigm and concept of Elite to suit their specific requirements of EIAC.

Let the abuse and belittlement begin