The New Smeaton (if you have friends to wing with) not quite as good but still a good exploit ??

[Adjuster666]

So really what you want is to make taking a wing mission as a solo player just as profitable as taking the same mission as a wing?

Thats just.....missing the point. You want to penalise wings by splitting the reward so you as a solo player are not penalised by taking wing missions?

No.

If 4 players want to share 20mil mission by taking a quarter of the time to do it and therefore have the ability to rinse and repeat similar missions three more times before a single player could do the original mission, that all good with me. They can then do 4 mission for every mission the single player can do.

However as it stands a 4 player wing can each earn 80mil in the same time it takes a solo player to do the first mission 20 mil because they each get full pay for a quarter of the work in each mission.

Does that make sense?

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Therefore the wing missions allow a potential for a 1 tonne delivery to pay millions.

Seriously that cannot be how Fdev intended.

I expect it's not their preferred use of them. But... on the other hand, let's say you're not in a Sidewinder but a combat-fit FAS, Chieftain, FDL, etc. You join a wing of T-9s for a trade mission, with 2t in a size 1 internal and the rest of your ship fitted for combat.

When the T-9s get interdicted, you destroy the ships attacking them as part of their wing.

That's a contribution to the mission - in some cases, it may be necessary for the mission to succeed. You didn't actually haul (much) cargo, but you certainly deserve paying (and paying by a more straightforward method than grabbing a bunch of collector limpets and having a wingmate slowly feed you barrels)

I think it's far better to have the mission system support that - support having wing missions where ships can take multiple roles and contribute in ways other than the obvious and direct one - than to make it a rigid contribution-based format that discourages anything other than taking 4 identical ships on the mission.

Similarly for a wing massacre mission, you could have three combat ships and a repair ship. The repair ship won't be getting many kills, of course.

(I mean, at the moment NPC interdiction skill is sufficiently weak that the T-9s are probably pretty safe unescorted, but that could be changed and shouldn't stop people having fun doing it that way in the meantime)

 

[Adjuster666]

That's on you then. The system is perfectly fine as is.

Why is it fine?

You like inequality ?

How about for every credit earned as a wing you only got a quarter, or if in a wing you paid 4 times the going rate for every commodity/ ship etc. Would you be fine with that?

 

[Bryan K]

Maybe I’m missing something, but...how is 8 mil considered a lot?

 

[Hellakitty]

Why is it fine?

You like inequality ?

How about for every credit earned as a wing you only got a quarter, or if in a wing you paid 4 times the going rate for every commodity/ ship etc. Would you be fine with that?

I.. quite honestly, wouldn't really care.

 

[El_Hefe]

No.

If 4 players want to share 20mil mission by taking a quarter of the time to do it and therefore have the ability to rinse and repeat similar missions three more times before a single player could do the original mission, that all good with me. They can then do 4 mission for every mission the single player can do.

However as it stands a 4 player wing can each earn 80mil in the same time it takes a solo player to do the first mission 20 mil because they each get full pay for a quarter of the work in each mission.

Does that make sense?

Yes but in your splitting the reward scenario your assuming there is zero downtime between missions for a wing. Thats not true. In your scenario a wing has to be able to get 3 good missions without having to look or travel for them. You pick one mission and just hammer away till its done as a solo player. So if theres say 10 mins downtime between finding and starting a mission as a wing im then earning the same as a solo player for missions that take me 20 minutes longer to find and complete in a wing.

Wing missions incentivise wings,they cant balance wing missions around solo players!!

 

[Hellakitty]

Wing missions incentivise wings,they cant balance wing missions around solo players!!

I tried saying that earlier, but no bueno.

 

[Adjuster666]

I expect it's not their preferred use of them. But... on the other hand, let's say you're not in a Sidewinder but a combat-fit FAS, Chieftain, FDL, etc. You join a wing of T-9s for a trade mission, with 2t in a size 1 internal and the rest of your ship fitted for combat.

When the T-9s get interdicted, you destroy the ships attacking them as part of their wing.

That's a contribution to the mission - in some cases, it may be necessary for the mission to succeed. You didn't actually haul (much) cargo, but you certainly deserve paying (and paying by a more straightforward method than grabbing a bunch of collector limpets and having a wingmate slowly feed you barrels)

I think it's far better to have the mission system support that - support having wing missions where ships can take multiple roles and contribute in ways other than the obvious and direct one - than to make it a rigid contribution-based format that discourages anything other than taking 4 identical ships on the mission.

Similarly for a wing massacre mission, you could have three combat ships and a repair ship. The repair ship won't be getting many kills, of course.

(I mean, at the moment NPC interdiction skill is sufficiently weak that the T-9s are probably pretty safe unescorted, but that could be changed and shouldn't stop people having fun doing it that way in the meantime)

Ian

Thanks for actually entering into a valid discussion on this.

Me I'm on a complete rant at the moment, it is my current bug bear, so apologies all round.

Anyway I see your point on the defence of a convoy/wing and there is merit in the argument and it is a very good point. I am trying to avoid the non trade discussion because I definitely see the share in combat scenarios to be very very different.

My main issue is the current system kicks sand in the face of anyone who dares try a wing mission solo, payout is mediocre at best and knowing a 4 wing can haul the same total load and get 4 times your payout between them makes the board filled wing missions a miss.

A pity really because I enjoy a bit of mindless slog back and to earning a good bit of coin and the wing missions added a bit of interest with the payment method.

 

[Adjuster666]

Yes but in your splitting the reward scenario your assuming there is zero downtime between missions for a wing. Thats not true. In your scenario a wing has to be able to get 3 good missions without having to look or travel for them. You pick one mission and just hammer away till its done as a solo player. So if theres say 10 mins downtime between finding and starting a mission as a wing im then earning the same as a solo player for missions that take me 20 minutes longer to find and complete in a wing.

Wing missions incentivise wings,they cant balance wing missions around solo players!!

Ahh so you think as a wing player you deserve to earn more than someone solo?? Why is that?

 

[Hellakitty]

Hey why won't this square peg fit in this round hole?

FDEV I IMPLORE YOU, UPON THE PAIN OF KEYBOWAR, GOD OF FORUM THREADS, TO MAKE THIS SQUARE PEG FIT IN THIS ROUND HOLE, JUST FOR ME!

Fin.

 

[El_Hefe]

Ahh so you think as a wing player you deserve to earn more than someone solo?? Why is that?

In wing missions i do yeah,that should be obvious. There has to be a reason to wing up. Also you can earn the same money as a solo player. Take the 180t cargo missions if you want to do it by trade. I can fit 4 into the same type 9 im using for the wing missions.

 

[Speedcuffs]

Working as intended.

Now, who wants to wing up in the Cutters?

 

[Adjuster666]

Wing missions incentivise wings,they cant balance wing missions around solo players!!

Sorry but I suspect that the majority of player are not and will not be part of a Wing. So solo players are most likely in the majority, so why should we be crippled by Wing missions which are lopsided to advance and reward wing players.

 

[Hellakitty]

Sorry but I suspect that the majority of player are not and will not be part of a Wing. So solo players are most likely in the majority, so why should we be crippled by Wing missions which are lopsided to advance and reward wing players.

Aww c'mon, no-one's being crippled by anything here at all. There was a call for a button to filter out wing missions in a thread a few days ago, if that gets introduced you can just filter them out and never have to worry about it again.

It really isn't as bad as you're making out.

 

[El_Hefe]

Sorry but I suspect that the majority of player are not and will not be part of a Wing. So solo players are most likely in the majority, so why should we be crippled by Wing missions which are lopsided to advance and reward wing players.

Why though? Are the solo missions now somehow different?

How have wing missions changed anything other than offer missions for players that play in wings?

They have added something,took nothing away. This game is pretty much balanced around single players,which is fine,there has always been a lack of ways to group up with others effectively for missions till now.

 

[Adjuster666]

In wing missions i do yeah,that should be obvious..

Not obvious to me.

Explain why you, enjoying a game with mates in a wing and undoubtedly having a good time and an enhanced experience because you are winged up, should gain any additional credit for the same task as someone who does it alone. Nothing at all obvious about that.

I've been in online squadrons teaming up, doing scenarios, meeting up at regular times, it was great. However we never got or expected the game to reward us for doing so ahead of a solo player. Our additional enjoyment of the game as a combined force was reward enough.

so why do you feel entitled?

 

[jonesskill]

Not obvious to me.

Explain why you, enjoying a game with mates in a wing and undoubtedly having a good time and an enhanced experience because you are winged up, should gain any additional credit for the same task as someone who does it alone. Nothing at all obvious about that.

I've been in online squadrons teaming up, doing scenarios, meeting up at regular times, it was great. However we never got or expected the game to reward us for doing so ahead of a solo player. Our additional enjoyment of the game as a combined force was reward enough.

so why do you feel entitled?

Man you guys cry too much.

8 MI is a joke, you can make more than that in less time that you will need doing this WING MISSION EXPLORING (Road to riches).

Just stop man, they already nerfed wing missions to the ground.

 

[CMDR Carbo]

Works as intended, I would say.
Always nice to be able to help friends out in a game.

 

[Adjuster666]

Aww c'mon, no-one's being crippled by anything here at all. There was a call for a button to filter out wing missions in a thread a few days ago, if that gets introduced you can just filter them out and never have to worry about it again.

It really isn't as bad as you're making out.

I love the Wing missions. Just don't see why me hauling 4000 tonne pays less overall than 4 people in a wing hauling the same 4000 tonne. I still did the same task except I did it alone and it took me 4 times longer to complete.

 

[Hellakitty]

I love the Wing missions. Just don't see why me hauling 4000 tonne pays less overall than 4 people in a wing hauling the same 4000 tonne. I still did the same task except I did it alone and it took me 4 times longer to complete.

That's why it's a wing mission and not a regular mission.