I have posted something like this elsewhere in other threads, but since I think it is very important I want to make a thread about it, for visibility.
I was really pleasantly surprised by the attention that has been given to the new info for traders. Gameplay-wise, this dramatically improves the depth of the process, also making the galaxy's economy feel somewhat more "alive" -- not to mention the fact that it makes the use of third-party tools more optional than it was before. If this is an example of what you mean with "improving core gameplay mechanics", well I am very hopeful about piracy, exploration, and mining, to be re-hauled in the future. Having said this, for a gameplay loop to be enticing I think that at least two elements are needed:
In my opinion, the new changes finally nail the first point, but there still exists a glaring issue with the second: the unbalanced payouts offered by other kind of activities. This is going to be unpopular because there is a large section of the community that loves and constantly makes use of various "money fountains" (some because they just like to be rich, some because they needs dozens of rebuys, and so on). But the fact is: passenger missions have killed the financial viability of pretty much every other in-game activity. The existence of high-paying passenger missions like they exist today will shoot the new trading mechanics in the foot before they even are launched, just like it has already all but killed (in terms of "is it worth doing considering the credits per hour"?) trading as-it-is-now, piracy, CG participation, mining...
Let me make an example. Using EDDB (for now) we can say that using a T9 or a T10 (the largest rank-unlocked ships) with a cargo of 500 units, the best profit per round trip one can hope to make is about 2.5 million credits. So this requires a T9 (just over 76 millions) and about 10 minutes between buying, jumping, and selling (assuming a 1-jump trip). [NOTE: this also assumes that one is OK with trading imperial slaves, by far the most profitable commodity!]. So, being generous, this is a 15 million credit / hour activity. Excluding the time it takes to actually use the new tools to find the best route.
On the other hand, using an Orca (just above 48 million + cabins), and loading it up with regular passengers (those happy to be put in Economy class), with missions given by one or more Friendly or Allied factions, it is easy to earn (it's harder to be as scientific here, I am using my own home system as a reference) something between 18 and 24 millions per one-jump one-way trip -- a long one-way trip that requires about 15 minutes of Supercruise. So let's again be generous and say that in total it takes 20 minutes, resulting in a 60 million credit / hour activity. (And we all know that this is a conservative number: there's plenty of tutorials online explaining how you can earn much, much more).
I realise that there's a lot of people that trade just for fun (just for the pleasure of engaging in the gameplay loop -- point 1 above), but I am pretty sure that if trading was more profitable, a lot more people would engage in this kind of gameplay. But it's clear that it's impossible to make trading more profitable -- that would require tweaking the galactic price of commodities, or to massively buff the carrying capacity of all ships. Both are not doable. So what is left? Well, and here's the unpopular thing: nerfing passenger missions. Or at least the "simple" A to B passenger missions -- as opposed to the long-range sightseeing/research ones. If there was another magical way to rebalance the payouts, I'd be very happy. But I doubt that there is such a magical remedy.
Frontier, please consider this. I'd really like the community to have a strong(er) incentive to use these great new tools you offered us.
Thanks for your attention.
I was really pleasantly surprised by the attention that has been given to the new info for traders. Gameplay-wise, this dramatically improves the depth of the process, also making the galaxy's economy feel somewhat more "alive" -- not to mention the fact that it makes the use of third-party tools more optional than it was before. If this is an example of what you mean with "improving core gameplay mechanics", well I am very hopeful about piracy, exploration, and mining, to be re-hauled in the future. Having said this, for a gameplay loop to be enticing I think that at least two elements are needed:
1) the "while-you-do-it" gameplay mechanic must be sufficiently complex to be fun and engaging (so in this case the route planning first and the actual flying your ship form A to B later)
2) there needs to be some proximal "endgame" result/reward that makes you feel you've accomplished something after you are done. For trading, this is obviously profit.
2) there needs to be some proximal "endgame" result/reward that makes you feel you've accomplished something after you are done. For trading, this is obviously profit.
In my opinion, the new changes finally nail the first point, but there still exists a glaring issue with the second: the unbalanced payouts offered by other kind of activities. This is going to be unpopular because there is a large section of the community that loves and constantly makes use of various "money fountains" (some because they just like to be rich, some because they needs dozens of rebuys, and so on). But the fact is: passenger missions have killed the financial viability of pretty much every other in-game activity. The existence of high-paying passenger missions like they exist today will shoot the new trading mechanics in the foot before they even are launched, just like it has already all but killed (in terms of "is it worth doing considering the credits per hour"?) trading as-it-is-now, piracy, CG participation, mining...
Let me make an example. Using EDDB (for now) we can say that using a T9 or a T10 (the largest rank-unlocked ships) with a cargo of 500 units, the best profit per round trip one can hope to make is about 2.5 million credits. So this requires a T9 (just over 76 millions) and about 10 minutes between buying, jumping, and selling (assuming a 1-jump trip). [NOTE: this also assumes that one is OK with trading imperial slaves, by far the most profitable commodity!]. So, being generous, this is a 15 million credit / hour activity. Excluding the time it takes to actually use the new tools to find the best route.
On the other hand, using an Orca (just above 48 million + cabins), and loading it up with regular passengers (those happy to be put in Economy class), with missions given by one or more Friendly or Allied factions, it is easy to earn (it's harder to be as scientific here, I am using my own home system as a reference) something between 18 and 24 millions per one-jump one-way trip -- a long one-way trip that requires about 15 minutes of Supercruise. So let's again be generous and say that in total it takes 20 minutes, resulting in a 60 million credit / hour activity. (And we all know that this is a conservative number: there's plenty of tutorials online explaining how you can earn much, much more).
In Sum:
- Trading: requires planning, pays at best 15 million credit / hour.
- Passenger missions: requires almost no planning, pays 60 million credit / hour (or more).
- Trading: requires planning, pays at best 15 million credit / hour.
- Passenger missions: requires almost no planning, pays 60 million credit / hour (or more).
Note: both cargo and trading ships are not rank locked and they are about the same price, so there is no difference in prerequisites. Also the potential risks are pretty much the same (being interdicted/ganked on the way. If anything one is more likely to be victim of piracy as a trader than as a passenger-transporter). I should also add that passenger missions occasionally give out rare materials as part of the payout, and that the profit from them counts towards Trading Ranking.
I realise that there's a lot of people that trade just for fun (just for the pleasure of engaging in the gameplay loop -- point 1 above), but I am pretty sure that if trading was more profitable, a lot more people would engage in this kind of gameplay. But it's clear that it's impossible to make trading more profitable -- that would require tweaking the galactic price of commodities, or to massively buff the carrying capacity of all ships. Both are not doable. So what is left? Well, and here's the unpopular thing: nerfing passenger missions. Or at least the "simple" A to B passenger missions -- as opposed to the long-range sightseeing/research ones. If there was another magical way to rebalance the payouts, I'd be very happy. But I doubt that there is such a magical remedy.
Frontier, please consider this. I'd really like the community to have a strong(er) incentive to use these great new tools you offered us.
Thanks for your attention.
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