The Old Elite IV speculation thread
essezeta said:Do you think that next Frontier dev. game after The Outsider will finally be Elite IV?
Anyway, when is The Outsider release date? I read it's expected to be released two year from now..
I hope I read an old article..
I can't wait another 4/5 years for Elite IV!
LOL - I can empathise with you
What I wouldn't mind seeing is some transparancy in the development, get some idea of where the game is heading, or some idea what the art department is up to. It would be really interesting to see the game develop right in front of us and have us as the gamers steer the creation of some aspects a little.It would be kinda cool do have a ship design comp or something similar or maybe somthing where we as interested parties can gain the naming rights to a space station
It would be cool to be able to say go here or see this, I contributed that to this game.EDIT: Woops - Deleting sig...
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zmurf said:
Think they'd spend most of the time shooting each other and bumping into things?!
The police AI in Frontier was so easy to confuse! My favourite trick was to commit some sort of crime near a station then stop my ship behind the station (on the opposite side to the door) and really close to it. Then all the police trying to leave the station would just crash into it instead (trying to fly straight at me)! You could do a similar thing on a planet by taking off then quickly landing again a little bit away from starport and all the police would crash into the ground!
Premiss for the E4 story - should it have a story?
Should the game have an obvious premise? Should it be a continuation of "dad died and left me his ship" or something deeper like saving the galaxy
What gains are to be made by playing the game, should there be an end, or should we exist within the game with an aim towards making lots of money, having a really big ship and being "ELITE"?
I have been puzzling it over for a while - because there was always this subliminal question when playing Frontier "what's the point"?
One answer that I came up with is a story development based around what the player does and how the player does it. For example: piracy and murder lead you down a path where you are given access to pirate hideaways, smuggleing similarly to smugglers hideouts, smugglers technology and interaction. Of course there is the option of a military path and a 'Royalty' style path and a matching tech development.
The manner in which you play then translates to how you are able to approach missions and the eventual effect of your actions in turn effect your environment. The possiblility of reducing a system from a Monarchy to Anarchy or vice versa. It is then the interaction of your chosen career path with other careers that eventually begin to define your story. The trick is to balance the various 'careers' so that they have their own strengths and weaknesses, since I have played a few games when choosing the 'dark side' makes getting a satisfying player development difficult.
Of course this is a very stripped down concept which has borrowed from the original 'career' paths of Frontier, but I felt that within the idea of being a pirate or smuggling, they were limited in their scope. Becoming a Baron or the like of a pirate system and gaining asset based around this is another idea.
The other area that I find difficult to conceive is the "getting out of your ship" scenario. How should this tie into your game? Should there be a combat factor, i.e. following a mark and, in Metal Gear Solid styles, sneaking up behind them and breaking their neck? How often should getting up and walking around become part of the game? When you land on a planet, should you be able to get out of your ship and climb into a land based vehicle and drive around in it, and how would this tie into missions?
Anyway, a few questions to consider.
Should the game have an obvious premise? Should it be a continuation of "dad died and left me his ship" or something deeper like saving the galaxy
What gains are to be made by playing the game, should there be an end, or should we exist within the game with an aim towards making lots of money, having a really big ship and being "ELITE"?
I have been puzzling it over for a while - because there was always this subliminal question when playing Frontier "what's the point"?
One answer that I came up with is a story development based around what the player does and how the player does it. For example: piracy and murder lead you down a path where you are given access to pirate hideaways, smuggleing similarly to smugglers hideouts, smugglers technology and interaction. Of course there is the option of a military path and a 'Royalty' style path and a matching tech development.
The manner in which you play then translates to how you are able to approach missions and the eventual effect of your actions in turn effect your environment. The possiblility of reducing a system from a Monarchy to Anarchy or vice versa. It is then the interaction of your chosen career path with other careers that eventually begin to define your story. The trick is to balance the various 'careers' so that they have their own strengths and weaknesses, since I have played a few games when choosing the 'dark side' makes getting a satisfying player development difficult.
Of course this is a very stripped down concept which has borrowed from the original 'career' paths of Frontier, but I felt that within the idea of being a pirate or smuggling, they were limited in their scope. Becoming a Baron or the like of a pirate system and gaining asset based around this is another idea.
The other area that I find difficult to conceive is the "getting out of your ship" scenario. How should this tie into your game? Should there be a combat factor, i.e. following a mark and, in Metal Gear Solid styles, sneaking up behind them and breaking their neck? How often should getting up and walking around become part of the game? When you land on a planet, should you be able to get out of your ship and climb into a land based vehicle and drive around in it, and how would this tie into missions?
Anyway, a few questions to consider.
this is my idea for the re-creation of elite4's basic story;
You are Commander Jameson - your genetic code and a black box was found about 80 years after you died. You were re-created, and given your insurance, however due to the fact that genetic re-manipulation isnt that well perfected, you dont really remember anything, or what you were doing, other than having a strong desire to pilot a ship.
(therfore allowing you to start from scratch)
There could be a few ideas that could lead you into a storyline, such as you somehow get flashbacks and genetic memory holes, which (after going to certain star systems) flash your memory and you start rememberring a few things. You also get the chance to pay retribution to the family of the pilot who took your ship down and actually killed you.
In elite4, you meet your son, who is extremely wealthy and aids you, and is however, physically older than you.. you save him from conspiracy and spies that plan on bringing his corporation down.
*edit* Or your son could think otherwise, and prefer that his father was dead, as a clone would not be worthy of being his father, he sends his personal armada against you...
You meet the Thargoids and somehow go into their realm thru witchspace, which then allies you with them (or goes against them). You have access to their ships, and their economy. They have different commodities and planets and way of life - you also have a different rating in their eyes (such as the federation and imperials have)
Terraforming of planets are commonplace, and you have missions on delivering important chemicals/elements and equipment used in the process of terraforming planets - if you do certain missions, the planets show the hard work that you do, by turning green, having oceans, and developing a thicker atmosphere.
and so on...
You are Commander Jameson - your genetic code and a black box was found about 80 years after you died. You were re-created, and given your insurance, however due to the fact that genetic re-manipulation isnt that well perfected, you dont really remember anything, or what you were doing, other than having a strong desire to pilot a ship.
(therfore allowing you to start from scratch)
There could be a few ideas that could lead you into a storyline, such as you somehow get flashbacks and genetic memory holes, which (after going to certain star systems) flash your memory and you start rememberring a few things. You also get the chance to pay retribution to the family of the pilot who took your ship down and actually killed you.
In elite4, you meet your son, who is extremely wealthy and aids you, and is however, physically older than you.. you save him from conspiracy and spies that plan on bringing his corporation down.
*edit* Or your son could think otherwise, and prefer that his father was dead, as a clone would not be worthy of being his father, he sends his personal armada against you...
You meet the Thargoids and somehow go into their realm thru witchspace, which then allies you with them (or goes against them). You have access to their ships, and their economy. They have different commodities and planets and way of life - you also have a different rating in their eyes (such as the federation and imperials have)
Terraforming of planets are commonplace, and you have missions on delivering important chemicals/elements and equipment used in the process of terraforming planets - if you do certain missions, the planets show the hard work that you do, by turning green, having oceans, and developing a thicker atmosphere.
and so on...
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insidah said:
The danger that I see from defining a character, i.e. Jameson, is that it already separates you from becoming engaged in the game as you. Personally I enjoy the idea of the escapism of being the pilot of my ship, being in control of my destiny and most of all making my own life story. This was the really strong attraction to Frontier, the fact that there was no 'tie-in' to a predefined thread. Essentailly you start with a blank canvas and build your own character from there.
I would like to take this further in E4 and actually create a character that interacts in the way that I desire, defining a specific set of events would seem somehow restricting and again remove me from the overall feeling of being me in the game.
In talking about a premise, I don't nessassarily mean a pre-defined story line, I mean more like - when is it set, what has occurred in the interim time between Elite, Frontier, FFE and E4? Has war between various casts of humanity broken out? Have new alien races introduced a virus that is causing mutation? Have new alien races introduced new technology that allows for time travel? Could we go back in time and see the Elite world as it was? Has intergalactic travel become reality and we're truely exploring the stars?
What I am considering is the (to borrow a definition for another poster) state and composition of the Eliteverse. The idea of following a "someone killed someone else and revenge is the name of the game" is a cliche that I believe should be strongly steered away from.
Steve O B Have said:
Got to agree. I always renamed myself to something closer to my personality (******
) when playing rather than sticking with Jameson.Edit: OK, I can't use Lister's side kick in Red Dwarf on the message board...
Steve O B Have said:
I think an ongoing storyline, as in the case of the hand coded missions in FFE (but more of them) would be good - as long as you could ignore it. One of the things that always bugged me about the GTA series is that claimed to be Elite-like in the ability to do whatever you want, but if you wanted to get to other parts of the game you had to complete the required missions - something I am not always willing to do, especially if I keep struggling to complete a mission (which happens far too often).
Steve O B Have said:
Of more concern to me is making E4 too much like Star Trek (which I consider to be dire anyway
). It started to happen IMHO in FFE, where the Thargoids were a warlike race that humans eventually made peace with. If you can hire a Thargoid as a crew member in E4, you may as well do a search and replace with Klingon for Thargoid.The beauty of Frontier and FFE is that you can literally do whatever you want in the game. Never did I fire upon a ship unless fired upon first, as I spent my time solely as a trader/taxi. Illicit goods a speciality!
Steve O B Have said:LOL - I can empathise with you
I too would like to see some kind of developer's diary, something I mentioned ages ago on AFE. I don't see us having much influence on the final game, as DB has stated that they have more than enough ideas to be getting on with. However, if E4 is going to be MM, then it may be possible to get these added at later dates through patches (I can't really see E4 having expansion packs - it may scare people off!)
Steve O B Have said:It would be kinda cool do have a ship design comp or something similar or maybe somthing where we as interested parties can gain the naming rights to a space station
There is a spacestation somewhere called Angus Manwaring (sp?) who posts to AFE. I can't remember the story of how he got his name there though. A ship design comp would be quite challenging to run. Not only have you got to ensure that the winning design does not have too high a poly count, but it can't infringe any copyrights!
I think the ability to import your own models would be cool though. I could see me flying around in Starbug.
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Elite 4 Ships
Which ships do you think should still be in the latest iteration of the Elite series? Should the original designs still be used? Should the most recent designs from FFE be scrapped?
Personally I'd love to see all of the original ships recreated, but significantly more to scale. I would love to be totally dwarfed by an anconda and would love to play with an Asp again. Definately would love to see the Cobra MkIII again altho I'd be interested in seeing an update to the police ships.
I'd also love to see some of the key ships from Frontier make a re-appearance like the Imperial Courier and the Tiger Trader.
I have no desire to see any of the ships from FFE purely due to their aesthetics. IMO they look like the art and design team took an extended leave and left the work to the kindergarten down the road. They were immediately dated and for me created a feeling of the Jetsons or a 70's idea of what the future might be like. They felt almost over designed, with a bit of "the more fins we put on these the cooler they'll look" syndrome.
Which ships do you think should still be in the latest iteration of the Elite series? Should the original designs still be used? Should the most recent designs from FFE be scrapped?
Personally I'd love to see all of the original ships recreated, but significantly more to scale. I would love to be totally dwarfed by an anconda and would love to play with an Asp again. Definately would love to see the Cobra MkIII again altho I'd be interested in seeing an update to the police ships.
I'd also love to see some of the key ships from Frontier make a re-appearance like the Imperial Courier and the Tiger Trader.
I have no desire to see any of the ships from FFE purely due to their aesthetics. IMO they look like the art and design team took an extended leave and left the work to the kindergarten down the road. They were immediately dated and for me created a feeling of the Jetsons or a 70's idea of what the future might be like. They felt almost over designed, with a bit of "the more fins we put on these the cooler they'll look" syndrome.
I always like the Saker, although I don't know why. With the higher poly count that is available to E4, I'm sure we will see more detailed models. Here is a good source for pictures of the ships available (it's actually a good site for tons of Frontier info).
I believe the reason some got removed (and I am happy to be corrected on this) is that it was fallout from the DB/IB issue, namely I believe IB took copyright over a few ship designs.
Rather than losing ships as such, I would like to see updates to make some more useful (I am looking at you Lifter). The only exception to that is the Cobra Mk III which should be ditched
I believe the reason some got removed (and I am happy to be corrected on this) is that it was fallout from the DB/IB issue, namely I believe IB took copyright over a few ship designs.
Rather than losing ships as such, I would like to see updates to make some more useful (I am looking at you Lifter). The only exception to that is the Cobra Mk III which should be ditched
jefranklin18 said:Got to agree. I always renamed myself to something closer to my personality (******
Edit: OK, I can't use Lister's side kick in Red Dwarf on the message board...
LOL Rim mer?
jefranklin18 said:
But surely there is a point where open endedness becomes emptiness. For me there has to be something gained, or some expectation fulfilled or better yet something truely unexpected from the game. Exploring the galaxy has to have some sort of payback, there has to some sort of depth to discovering new systems and perhaps first contacts.
In ignoring 'scripted events' what is there left to look at or do. What scope is there within the game to keep entertained and hooked? Triggered events have to happen within some constraints even if they are character stat based. In Elite some events were triggered by reaching a combat proficiency, something that E4 has so many more possibilities for.
jefranklin18 said:Of more concern to me is making E4 too much like Star Trek (which I consider to be dire anyway
I entirely agree, there has to be a line and making the Thargoids all warm and fuzzy would be crossing it. My perception of the Thargoids is similar to that of the Shadows from B5 - they just shouldn't have a happy place
jefranklin18 said:I always like the Saker, although I don't know why. With the higher poly count that is available to E4, I'm sure we will see more detailed models. Here is a good source for pictures of the ships available (it's actually a good site for tons of Frontier info).
I believe the reason some got removed (and I am happy to be corrected on this) is that it was fallout from the DB/IB issue, namely I believe IB took copyright over a few ship designs.
Rather than losing ships as such, I would like to see updates to make some more useful (I am looking at you Lifter). The only exception to that is the Cobra Mk III which should be ditched
Link didn't work...so I had to get it from the quote... weird... Nice site tho.
really? Ditch old faithful? Why?
I dunno - the Saker just feels like a cliche, and I just can't abide by the Viper MKII
I know that there is no comparision with the ship design from the Elite games and game currently available, but I'd like to see the opportunity taken to see what these ships should really look like
Note the smiley...
Ah the man was tryin for a humor LOL missed that alltogether!
PS - PM for you.
LOL missed that alltogether! PS - PM for you.
ive always liked the hawk airfighter, however it cannot hold much weaponry, so its nothing more than a simple ship that can take you locally around the star system, or within 5light years..
If there were lighter, more powerful weapons, and more advanced hyperdrives that didnt take up so much cargo, i'd definately be looking at using the hawk airfighter... infact, i think in elite4, you should have missions within the star system you are in..
and another thing, you should be able to see dealers who buy and sell ships, and u can buy more than one ship, however, if you want that ship, you have to go back to wherever you left/parked it..
and maybe, you could hire crew to man your other ships, and they accompany you on missions.. and u can program what your wingman is going to do, using a simple interface, such as "dont shoot until i shoot", "attack anything you see", "only attack hostile ships", "give me full cover", "keep quiet and take lead", etc etc...
i think there needs to be an array of ships with similar designs from certain manufacturers, such as mitsubishi, ford, toyota, bmw, mercedes, nissan, mazda, ferrari, etc etc.......
that would be very cool.
If there were lighter, more powerful weapons, and more advanced hyperdrives that didnt take up so much cargo, i'd definately be looking at using the hawk airfighter... infact, i think in elite4, you should have missions within the star system you are in..
and another thing, you should be able to see dealers who buy and sell ships, and u can buy more than one ship, however, if you want that ship, you have to go back to wherever you left/parked it..
and maybe, you could hire crew to man your other ships, and they accompany you on missions.. and u can program what your wingman is going to do, using a simple interface, such as "dont shoot until i shoot", "attack anything you see", "only attack hostile ships", "give me full cover", "keep quiet and take lead", etc etc...
i think there needs to be an array of ships with similar designs from certain manufacturers, such as mitsubishi, ford, toyota, bmw, mercedes, nissan, mazda, ferrari, etc etc.......
that would be very cool.
Hmm... Able to hire a crew to man your other ships would be cool. And if they didn't like the way you were running the business they could mutiny and steal it (Sorta like Sid Meier Pirates!)
I would definitely like to have Frontier's ships graphically updated and properly sized. I think the Anaconda would not be allowed to dock in a space station but have to include Hawk Fighters or Shuttles inside to carry people to the Space Stations.
I would definitely like to have Frontier's ships graphically updated and properly sized. I think the Anaconda would not be allowed to dock in a space station but have to include Hawk Fighters or Shuttles inside to carry people to the Space Stations.
insidah said:
Operation Flashpoint has a similar interface which is very effective. You can instruct any unit with just about any command with a 3 or 4 number sequence, for example "F4, F9, 7, 6" will make group members 4 & 9 go pr0ne.
No, that would be utterly brilliant. I wonder if they'd have to be licenced from the manufacturers, or if they'd be willing to sponsor their ships as 'product placement' like Audi in i, Robot...
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I'm not convinced by having the ability to create squadrons. In some respects it is taking away from the game (alone in the universe) and it introduces a new layer of complexity for the developers.
Other than pirate fleets, I can't see any real use for it.
Other than pirate fleets, I can't see any real use for it.
True Elite was not MMO, but the technology was never there at the time.
If they decided to push a MMO version of Elite, and it was constructed in such a way that cretins were not able to spoil it, I would probably consider it. Obviously, I would want to feel I was getting my money's worth so, would want to see a dynamic universe, etc.
But singleplayer is fine for me, if the AI is good enough.
If they decided to push a MMO version of Elite, and it was constructed in such a way that cretins were not able to spoil it, I would probably consider it. Obviously, I would want to feel I was getting my money's worth so, would want to see a dynamic universe, etc.
But singleplayer is fine for me, if the AI is good enough.