The Old Elite IV speculation thread

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Steve O B Have said:
LOL Rim mer?

Yeah, still I guess it is the pro noun of the verb. Still a good role model though :)

Steve O B Have said:
But surely there is a point where open endedness becomes emptiness. For me there has to be something gained, or some expectation fulfilled or better yet something truely unexpected from the game. Exploring the galaxy has to have some sort of payback, there has to some sort of depth to discovering new systems and perhaps first contacts.

In ignoring 'scripted events' what is there left to look at or do. What scope is there within the game to keep entertained and hooked? Triggered events have to happen within some constraints even if they are character stat based. In Elite some events were triggered by reaching a combat proficiency, something that E4 has so many more possibilities for.

Well, I guess it is horses for courses. I normally set my self a goal of achieving a certain rank in the Federal military, and after about a day say "oh, stuff it - let's just make money". My first long term exposure to the Elite universe was Frontier, and I never felt the need to get an Elite rating. The original Elite, it could be argued, getting Elite was the raison d'etre for the game. Frontier there was no objective, other than to be there. FFE there were the hand coded missions, but I never bothered.
 
i think it would be great to have a squadron of your own mercenaries raiding merchantmen, seizing their cargo - a swift attack... i think you could also view your enemy on radar, and it comes up on a screen, and you would then be able to go onto a seperate menu, and physically assign your pilots by dragging and dropping them onto the enemy to strategically win a conflict - this would be done quite some distance away from the enemy, as you both close in on each other...


imagine 5 enemy ships, 3 are really tough and 2 are weak -
you have 2 wingmen with you, you can drag your wingmen onto the weak targets to attack and annihilate them first.. then when u click the "make it so" or whatever u want to call it button, the orders would be given via radio chatter that you can hear - it would sound awesome. you wouldnt then have to specify all your targets, or use menu's for each wingman - it'd all be on one simple interface...


sound like an idea ??
 
jefranklin18 said:
Yeah, still I guess it is the pro noun of the verb. Still a good role model though :)



Well, I guess it is horses for courses. I normally set my self a goal of achieving a certain rank in the Federal military, and after about a day say "oh, stuff it - let's just make money". My first long term exposure to the Elite universe was Frontier, and I never felt the need to get an Elite rating. The original Elite, it could be argued, getting Elite was the raison d'etre for the game. Frontier there was no objective, other than to be there. FFE there were the hand coded missions, but I never bothered.

I understand at what you are saying, and I fell into the same sort of pattern - how to make the most money quickly. I still think that there should be that element in the game, but it should be the means to the end, that being exploration? galaxy conquest? system domination?

I don't envy the Frontier Devs writing task, it's not going to be easy! Another reason why involving a wider audience, perhaps as Beta testers or as a testing group to help flesh the story out? Of course there would have to be some pretty tight non disclosure agreements etc :D

I guess the trick is to gently shove the player in a direction of doing something interesting without them really realising it. It's almost like an illusion of longevity to just keep flying around in circles making money. I think I'd like for this game to be immersing.

Soooo - game set many many years in the future?
- The Elite/Frontier world has expanded even further so the Frontier is even more of the frontier than we were originally used to?
- So if we are much further on, what technology advances have been made?
- Are hyperdrives able to send us greater distances? Are they more accurate, can we arrive closer to our destination than we used to?
- What are the weapons like? Old faithful lasers? Particle accelerators? Rail guns? Now there is an idea, space sniping, or sniping assassin missions within space colonies. Another reason to leave your spaceship.

anker_fig04b.jpg


- Mission types that play a bit like first person shooters, get in, get the resource/girl/money/animal/narcs and get out...

- can you choose 'when' to start rather than only 'where'?

- I would expect to see an Elite (original) mini game playable somewhere at the Lave pub :D
 
jefranklin18 said:
I'm not convinced by having the ability to create squadrons. In some respects it is taking away from the game (alone in the universe) and it introduces a new layer of complexity for the developers.

Other than pirate fleets, I can't see any real use for it.

Yeah I agree, there is something to be said for the feeling of being free to do whatever you want without the issues of dealing with wingmen - it adds a management layer that once or twice is amusing (so maybe in missions?) but I'm not to sure that I'd want to deal with it continuously.

Now the idea of licenced vehicle brands is very cool - Lamborghini spaceships :) LOL - Ferrari is notoriously difficult to get licence for - Gran Turismo - arguably the greatest car sim of all time - was not able to licence Ferrari. It would be a very difficult concept to impliment because each of the car companies would want to represent themselves in the best possible light. Of course you could just go the GTA way and make them passingly similar :)
 
jefranklin18 said:
True Elite was not MMO, but the technology was never there at the time.

If they decided to push a MMO version of Elite, and it was constructed in such a way that cretins were not able to spoil it, I would probably consider it. Obviously, I would want to feel I was getting my money's worth so, would want to see a dynamic universe, etc.

But singleplayer is fine for me, if the AI is good enough.

I'm keen for various aspects of the game to be mulitiplayer persistant but I don't think I could deal with it becoming another game where zitty little teenagers spend all of their waking hours playing the game and then zapping us 'n00bs' with their over developed and over sized "space ship2!!!111!!11elevenoneoneone" - no I'm not bitter :p

But honestly if there were some sort of a player vetting system or similar or even a co-op system where you could actually choose who you were able to interact with (msn/ICQ/yahoo styles) then that would be kinda cool, limit it perhaps to various space stations. Have various parts as persistant like planetary systems discovered or new ships and races, that sort of thing.

The 'massive mulitiplayer' thing doesn't nessassarily need to be translated in the classic sense unless you want it to? The multiplayer aspect could be used to drive economies, and your story could well interact with others stories, NEWS Bullitin - JAMESON has become Prince Regent, Diso system rejoices... that sort of thing. It would add a random diversity to the game but one generated by players rather than random algorithims...
 
waitingfordavid said:
what would you pay per month for the privlege
of creating content?

$0 -- absolutely nothing. Let me use my valid registration code to allow me access to downloadable content from within the game, and maybe as a code to access the forums. The game will be cracked anyway, let us legal users have an added benefit of being legal. There is no way I would pay a monthly fee (or more likely pay per played hour which I feel is a better system considering some only get to play a few hours a month) to play a game. I wouldn't even download a demo of such a game.

waitingfordavid said:
should the game explore corportate sponsership + user created content?

No! The steps we take to prevent ads being shown on websites, and then let the games in? No! Not even imaginary ones for me. Those work brilliantly in the GTA series games because they have been made so funny you *want* to listen (radios) to them and watch (billboards) them. But then GTA is loaded with sarcasm to the point of "being a point" (for me anyway), which would never work for Elite 4 or any realistic space game for that matter.

As for user created content, big yes! But it shouldn't cost anything to download nor to create such content, at worst a more expensive game having the needed SDK's (if that's the angle).

Also, a clause should be given with the game, in that only Creative Commons licence is to be used, so other creators (yes, that sadly means even wannabe creators, but they do add variation nonetheless) can benefit from others work. I'd really hate to see the payware "industry" and "copyright web police" adding so much hatred to an otherwise nice community. This has happened in the Flightsim and certain F1 communities which I for the most part have withdrawn from because of this. Even screenshots not even used similarly, for crying out loud, has been issue for legal complaints and lawsuit threats. Law suits over a screenshot?!?!? What is wrong with this world? :( I don't think Elite would grow that big though, but I really like the essence of Creative Commons (not the same as Public Domain).

Sorry for the rant, but I needed to get it off my system ;)
 
I STILL belive the only way to make it a realy good multiplayer game is to implement the multiplayer part as a feature.

Make it as a singleplayer game and let it have loot of starsystems that is standard, and a realy great AI.
Then lett there be a feature to be able to make a starsystem from a ruleset.
When you are connected to the internet, your computer sends a message to a database server saying that your online and that you have a starsystem that people can fly to.
Everybody else that is online then also see your starsystem and can fly to. When they do this they actually are logged in to your "starsystem server" and can see everybody else that are on that server for the moment.
This way you can choose to fly in starsystems with other people in it, or in starsystems where there only are AI:s.

This way you can choose how hard the game should be. Flying to safe starsystems around the Sol system where you can trade without being jumped by pirates and assasins... Or fly to systems with real people in it...

And ofcourse different ships should have different specs. So you cant get a "over developed and over sized "space ship2". A big ship is slow and a sitting duck against small fast ships... and small ships cant take big lasers and loots of shild... therefor you cant get superior ships. And you shouldnt get more accurat and "powerful" when you get higher elite status... elite status should only be a title describing how much you have done, as it is in frontier.
 
I am a huge fan of "free games", do whatever you want style. Frontier was I think my first one actually. Since then it has become character developing games like Daggerfall, Morrowind, and Oblivion style RPG games. They don't have any competition to gamestyle and character in my view. I for one even enjoy Oblivion for it's "scaled battles" in which your opponents are scaled up to match your strenght to make it more challenging in the long run. Unfortunately it's a bit too scaled as you don't really get an advantage until you have outrun the scaling system, at which point it becomes a bit dull. Fortunately though, they have a difficulty slider allowing you to suit your gaming abilities (they varies from person to person, and even from day to day!).

On the action side there is GTA which have also introduced a bit of character development with San Andreas. Their system is mostly playing ability based meaning there will be a lot of players never being able to continue on their missions -- I have done all missions before but on my second and third try, I'm stuck beyond belief. Very very sad that a game is designed to "pro gamers". Still.... I'm just loving it :) Having such a system which *requires* you to fulfil a mission instead of providing alternative routes; say other missions that require a certain stat or time since first mission attempt, or the possibility to "hire professionals on a BBS system" to do the job for you, is untolerable.

So, what would I want from Elite 4? I'll sum it up:

* Character developing: stats, skills, and other factors. Check any RPG for ideas, then transform to suit space style. Maybe preset from the beginning since you are portraying a preset character (if Jameson). However, I'll present a non Jameson alternative below.

* Character creation during tutorial: The character has just been revived from a coma. The doctor is asking for his(/her?) memories since no info can be found in any databanks relating to the DNA. Name, age, gender, where from (becomes "race"), occupation (class). Having lost memory it is hard to explain all these and have to do a tutorial "mission" to determine everything (can be skipped). Then the apparent real mission starts; to figure out who he/she is and where from, and why he/she woke up in a hospital in this particular system of all places. This will trigger the more hidden main plot, which could be an area political domination from whatever side. So... The "main plot" will take a few hours to complete. The "hidden actual plot" will take months to complete. Is this feasable?

* A difficulti slider, so all people can play, not just experts.

* A "main player induced storyline": lots of triggers can advance the storyline, usually depending on player career style. I.e. the storyline can be triggered if the player has explored x%, ventured x ly from Sol, made x money, made x allies, made x career advancements, made x in character stats or skills, any of the mentioned in a x combination, and so forth. The "side galaxy storyline" will continue at a very slow pace wether the player chooses to take part of its missions or not, but doing so will speed it up a little.

* Storylines so complex and with so many twists that technology not available at starting point will be necessary just to assemble the pieces together; a type of mystery line where the player is given only fragments of the puzzle, driving him forward to complete.

* Stay away from the overly misused father cliches. Urrghh.. Maybe later in game there will emerge a subplot; your dead father had a legendary ship. You arrive after much struggle just to find shrapnel of your fathers ship. You find out that your father was a pirate, and not a very good one at that. You find out that your father was truly an evil person. You find out that this wasn't your father at all. You find out that it was all a setup forcing you to relocate from your previous location because political forces saw you as a threat to their operations. You found out yourself is a looser because you took the bait -- minus 3 points to intelligence (but others have raised due to experience, hehe). Your father is dead, deal with it! :)
 
No storyline to follow!

Maybe a story in the way of: "The Empire is at war against the Federation"... and then there could be systems where there are military troops fighting. So if you fly to this systems you could end up in the middle of two fighting armies. And if you choose to join the army of one or the other side you can get missons like: "join the squadron of #name# and fly to the starsystem #name# and destroy all enemy targets".

But no storyline that you have to follow to move the game forward.

Karl said:
Character developing: stats, skills, and other factors. Check any RPG for ideas, then transform to suit space style. Maybe preset from the beginning since you are portraying a preset character (if Jameson). However, I'll present a non Jameson alternative below.

Character developing should only be aloud if the game is singleplayer... in multiplayer games this just gives advateges to people that have time to play 24/7. I belive that all skills in multiplayer games should be how good you are to controll your character. And not on how high your "strengh" and "Life point" is.
 
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Should we have to actually start the game owning a ship? Could there be a choice to start developing the character and the start of your story on a planet? Maybe a randomly generated start point?

You have to work your way to having enough money to get started? LOL Steve O B Have, stock broker/trader at your service... would you like to buy some food? LOL

Could you start off in the underground as a criminal kinda Harry Harrisons Stainless Steel Rat styles? End up as a man on the run, and you buy a clunker to get off planet?

The thing is, I'd hate for these to be predefined but I'd love to be able to create this kind of story for myself... living out a fictional Sci Fi character would be very very cool.
 
David B said:
Elite 4 absolutely has to be 'right' - and does indeed need to stand out from the perceived competition. Trebor, you are right to be sceptical; the game has to be outstanding to live up to expectations, and the three reasons you give have to be considered.

Nevertheless, I have never seen Elite as (just) a space trading game - it is way more than that - even though I realise this is how it has been classified since. What we plan to with Elite 4 is quite different, and much of what we are doing in Outsider will feed into that.

Oh - and Marcus - thanks for your comments on Dog's Life!

That's great news DB!

I just wished frontier's new website didn't seem to ignore it completely... ie it would be nice to have seen a webpage dedicated to E4, with an up-to-date FAQ, and a few graphics demonstrating the type of technology that you are using in current games that will lead the way towards E4 etc :)
 
yeah, i think that the future companies should have their own ships - and new names of companies too.. but each company makes a series of ships.. and as time goes on, better models of that ship come out - for instance, the BMW 318i - just look at how BMW have changed over the years...

and i think you should be able to go to NEW and USED shipyards to purchase your ship.. and with new ships, everything onboard works and is 100% operational.. used ships come with certain bugs or even mods.. (i.e a damaged hyperspace analyser, bigger engine, better weapon, etc etc.. ) the ideas are limitless..
 
While I like the idea of different manufacturers designing different types of ship (I've often had that idea for science-fiction stories), and I think at the time that Elite 4 is set at, most people will have a spacecraft (even if it is just a crappy Interplanetary Shuttle - maybe swarms of those near the main starports!) I think that the companies should be mainly fictional. This is mainly because I believe that extremely few of the companies of today would still be building machines in a thousand years time, meaning anachronisms which could not be explained away.

However, all of the other ideas seem great regarding the manufacturers and their ships.
 
Hi.

I agree. Having different manufacturers is quite a nice idea. It could be expanded to include equipment and weapon types. Having newer brands of ships sounds great. Maybe in the future you could try and track down an old classic model thats now hard to get. Repairing old ships could be harder because the parts are harder to find.


Cheers

Moriarity
 
In this case I dont really like the idea of a predetermined storyline, ok, in Oblivion, it works really well - and I can run around and dive in and out of the story as I like, or just take missions, or just run around trying to do personal things like make money, buy all the houses, etc.

In some ways, its forced, in others its not. But the problem here comes when you complete the story... then all of a sudden you are without any direction, and by this time you'll probably have a huge ship and millions of credits, so what is your motivation?

I think the single overriding storyline idea should be ditched. I like the idea of starting off, with or without a ship, maybe in a random/chosen place depending on how you set your 'character' up.

Use the faction system to determine the sort of people you can choose to engage with, or not, use scripted missions for when you want to 'do' something, such as someone wants you to kill someone, or find someone, or follow someone, etc, procedural events could run the universe, deciding who goes where and what they do, therefore affecting the balance of power, the types of economies, etc, for instance, if someone goes and blows up a factory on the moon, cut down the production there of xx, causing a local/system wide supply problem, raising the prices, and a number of missions to find out who did it and why.

I like the idea of some parts of the galaxy being a warzone between different races, wars could start and end differently each time you play (maybe even have a bunch of random races, only the humans in the core systems remain the same) so you can dive in and watch, help someone out because you want to follow their cause, or because it suits your ends, or you're just profiteering by running weapons to prolong the conflict.

If everything like that was procedural and there was enough variety, you could just keep going and going and going forever.

There needs to be ways of managing money, too, the problem with games where you get to amass money is, that you get to a point (as in real life) where you make so much, that you can just re-invest to make more, and end up with way more than you need. There needs to be a possibility for trading missions to fail / not pan out, sometimes goods may spoil in transit depending how long they've been in your hold, the price isnt what you expected, so you can either sell at a loss, or risk another jump and more goods spoiling, etc.. You have your ship repairs, maintenance, registration, insurance - taxes, perhaps, depending on your income from legitimate dealings.

It could be really good, and what could make it really better, is that you got a different game everytime you played. So you couldnt always bank on one trading run working, economies wouldn't always be the same, different trade routes would be used, etc.
 
I like the idea of having ship manufacturers, but not based on real ones that are around now. That would be silly ;)

While there should be your 'mass production' vehicles - and perhaps each 'type' should have a version from a different manufacturer, just as companies today release similar products to compete - I believe it would be an opportune time for the more well off player to specify their own custom ship.

You could go to a specialist or a set manufacturer, and specify:

Hulls (affecting cargo capacity),
Engines (affecting accelleration),
Cockpit (affecting frontal weapons system availability)
Fins/wings (for planetary flight and storing external ordnance),
Undercarraige (for landing on different surfaces - ie, you'd need a bouyant 'float' for landing on water planets to lay an oil rig etc)
Software/Computer systems (for targetting, trade management, scanning, etc)
Paint job (just for coolness)

Of course your accessories could then either be mounted in your cargo bay taking up space, or externally mounted in some cases (so you can design a ship bristling with lasers and missiles under its 'wings' to put the fear into anyone who attacks!). The larger the hull, the more shield power you need to give the same amount of cover over the surface, etc.

That would give you a real reason to look after your ship, because you built it, and it would also mean you get to conciously choose your path with each modification, for instance I am going prospecting on rocky moons, so I build a small ship (so I can land in tight places), with rails/skids underneath (so I can land on hard untreated surfaces), a big bulky hull (for storing the mining rig), and a computer system for communicating with probes and rigs to manage them / see what they've come up with.

Or perhaps I build an orbital freighter and design a small mining rig deployment ship inside it, which can't hyperspace, has room for one rig, and is suited to landing in small areas.

With enough thought and a large array of 'components' (maybe theres some simple way in which users can alter the size/shape of specific parts for individuality) there could be an almost endless array of different user defined vehicles. And don't nescessarily make it so one is 'best' - otherwise everyone will come up with the same. Say a small hull only has a certain sized engine mount, or that you have to keep your frame within stress limits - if you put giant engines on a weak hull, full power would just break it apart after a while... or the engines being disproportionate would attract more laser fire and thus get damaged more often.
 
Hi.

I hope that Elite 4 doesnt have a storyline. If it does though, I hope you can progress thru it even if you fail plot tasks, rather than failing a mission then having to restart again.

I'd also like to have the option to be either a good guy or a bad guy and have two different paths and endings.

Cheers

Moriarity
 
Kipper said:
I like the idea of having ship manufacturers, but not based on real ones that are around now. That would be silly ;)

While there should be your 'mass production' vehicles - and perhaps each 'type' should have a version from a different manufacturer, just as companies today release similar products to compete - I believe it would be an opportune time for the more well off player to specify their own custom ship.

...
With enough thought and a large array of 'components' (maybe theres some simple way in which users can alter the size/shape of specific parts for individuality) there could be an almost endless array of different user defined vehicles. And don't nescessarily make it so one is 'best' - otherwise everyone will come up with the same. Say a small hull only has a certain sized engine mount, or that you have to keep your frame within stress limits - if you put giant engines on a weak hull, full power would just break it apart after a while... or the engines being disproportionate would attract more laser fire and thus get damaged more often.

Now there would be something truely stunning!!!! Similar to the creation of creatures in SPORE, creating ships in the same way!!!! Man the very idea of that gets me going!!! You could really make something totally stunning, use your own textures but still within the 'physical' confines of the game... :D :cool:
 
Elite 4 and Platform

Hi,

I understand that there is not much information regarding elite 4 at the moment.

I have a curious question, will Elite 4 be developed for the PC, consoles or both? I understand from what I have read that you prefer developing for consoles rather that PC (I understand the reasons for this).

John
 
Moriarity said:
Hi.

I hope that Elite 4 doesnt have a storyline. If it does though, I hope you can progress thru it even if you fail plot tasks, rather than failing a mission then having to restart again.

I'd also like to have the option to be either a good guy or a bad guy and have two different paths and endings.
I think that even it does have a storyline, what you do in the game is pretty much up to you. If you look at the Outsider as an example, there is a very distinct storyline there, but (from what I gather) the path to completion is entirely upto you. I don't expect to see GTA style, keep trying this mini-mission to you complete (or get bored of) it.
 
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