Yeah, figured. I can still daydream about larger PGs.
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Yeah, figured. I can still daydream about larger PGs.
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
Well to be fair. One of two things are happening here.
#1 They really do care and developers check the thread here and there to try and find middle ground for both sides of the fence.
#2 Its a dump thread, as a moderator in the past for WoW and Counterstrike forums there was alot of those made and put on the back burner. I've always been against them because they are created and forgot about and no moderator really likes to visit them. Even though really good information can come out of it. However it just turns into a giant he said she said. And no one cares and good information gets buried like John Cena does to all the new Talent in WWE. Kappa.
At anyrate, this is one of the biggest threads I have seen. Like 2 1/2 years now with this stuff. There are obviously some issues here. No matter what side of the fence you are on. I suggest banding together and asking for change in this matter. Rather than fighting against each other. We are all on the same side at the end of the day.
And quite frankly, there should be no reason this thread hasn't been discussed from the top. As there is no communication about it or transparency.
TLDR: Work together, not against each other. Meet in the middle. And at least value each others opinions even though you disagree with them.
o7
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Memory could be failing me but I don't think there was a route plotter when the game started (or that may have been in gamma, I know that I did a bunch or rares runs early game and you had to plot every jump).
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
We all hope so, I did hope that was Power Play - then it came out and was sorely disappointed.
But any suggestion that takes away from any mode or gives an unfair boost to one mode is always met with harsh resistance, and that's just me - you want to see what the others are like
Some things there were added since the release was human pilots being mission targets for a kill mission (so PvP excuse to shoot people, as they have big "Mission Target" on them), but FDev never really talk about it or advertise that is part of the game now. Heck, I think it was found out by accident by someone who thought it was a bug and reported as one. (?)
It would be nice to have in game reasons to engage in direct PvP and not just to "farm salt" as is the main case now.
But the challenge is finding that whole "meaningful" part.
Yes agreed. 100%. I love PVP interaction, and yes my psychopath self likes going after traders. The only thing I wont do is go after explorers, or hunt noobs in sidewinders. Everyone else at a CG is business as usual. And even then I really dont go after traders unless its the BIG 3. Or they dont have shields on their ship. I will Interdict them, give them a stern "Put some defenses on your ship, not every one is nice as me". Shoot at them a little and take off.
I'll always fight for the bad guy tho. Without bad guys though. Its meh. I tend to play a good guy like 80% of the time. Playing a bad guy is fun too.
Its just when I play a bad guy, Im tired of getting called names or threatened to be Doxxed. As a streamer thats dangerous as all hell.
This is one of the main reasons I am asking for some context for PVP activity. And Griefing to be defined in Elite Dangerous so we are all on the same page.
A lot of people dont play the bad guy. A lot of people dont know what its like. Just like Private groups or solo players have never had to deal with the heat issues, or Healing beam issues, ect.
A lot of you guys just dont know whats exactly happening in open and how things can effect everyone in it from the top down.
A lot of you guys dont see the balance issues I and many others are complaining about because you dont take part in them.
Like this guy, https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...me-in-combat?p=5896964&viewfull=1#post5896964 About combat logging.
Us PVPers can tell the difference when someone taskills, or someone uses a graceful exit.
And because most here dont take part in these activities, they dont effect you and you dont know about them.
The same goes with Engineer imbalance, and one of the reasons we would like the see the BGS and PVP meshed together a little more in one way or another. A large part of the community just dont see it, and you feel nothing needs to be done. Because you guys just dont take part in it.
Someone humor me, go out there and just try being the bad guy for a week. And you'll see exactly what I am talking about.
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So, about PG's and the theoretical "Open PVE"...
We don't NEED an Open PVE because we have PG's.
We have had some issues with people "invading" PG's specifically to prove to everyone what mighty and powerful people they are by entering into a parallel dimension with their mighty warships and preying on those who wanted nothing to do with their style of play.
To me this looks like this:
On the left side, we have a 100-yard (American) Football Field.
On the right, an identical 100-yard (American) Football Field.
On the left, two teams are playing Touch Football.
On the right, two teams are playing Tackle Football.
Someone comes over from the right to the left and starts Tackling the Touch players, screaming "THIS IS HOW I PLAY! THIS IS HOW YOU SHOULD PLAY! NOW PLAY WITH ME!"
And nobody wants to, or they'd already be on the right side field, and the Referee kicks them out and sends them back to their field.
It's both silly and pathetic at the same time - both are playing the same game, both have identical fields. One likes pain and bruises, the other does not.
It's OK to like pain and bruises.
It's also OK not to.
It's not OK to insist someone else "Play their way, as long as it's your way."
Now go play - have fun, and try not to [expletive deleted] and one off, ok?
We don't NEED an Open PVE because we have PG's.
We have had some issues with people "invading" PG's specifically to prove to everyone what mighty and powerful people they are by entering into a parallel dimension with their mighty warships and preying on those who wanted nothing to do with their style of play.
To me this looks like this:
On the left side, we have a 100-yard (American) Football Field.
On the right, an identical 100-yard (American) Football Field.
On the left, two teams are playing Touch Football.
On the right, two teams are playing Tackle Football.
Someone comes over from the right to the left and starts Tackling the Touch players, screaming "THIS IS HOW I PLAY! THIS IS HOW YOU SHOULD PLAY! NOW PLAY WITH ME!"
And nobody wants to, or they'd already be on the right side field, and the Referee kicks them out and sends them back to their field.
It's both silly and pathetic at the same time - both are playing the same game, both have identical fields. One likes pain and bruises, the other does not.
It's OK to like pain and bruises.
It's also OK not to.
It's not OK to insist someone else "Play their way, as long as it's your way."
Now go play - have fun, and try not to [expletive deleted] and one off, ok?
Except that its no obvious that large PVE private groups exist.
How does a new player know what private groups are out there?
I'd be really curious if FDev created an open PVE link that sits right next to the other game modes and just posted the usage stats.
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
Except there is not two fields. Its one field. Especially when it comes to the BGS. And BGS PVP aspects.
The way this works is you go to tackle the player, but the players are ghosts. You know they are there but you cant touch them. And you cant defend against them. There is 1 ball. And if they have possession, They get to run right through and score(UA bombs anybody? Ps4 shutdown of the starting area?). You cant even play touch or flags. So they get to spend their TIME winning the game. And they always have possession of the ball.
Thats why Solo and Private are unbalanced compared to Open play. No risk. All reward. PVE is mandatory while PVP is optional. And it shouldn't be if you are going out of your way to effect others.
I can understand people are upset and dont want specific types of game play to be removed from them. But there has to be a way to meet in the middle.
And so far this Idea is a pretty cool Idea, https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/375671-Half-baked-suggestion-Powerplay-PvPvE
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You may be right, but I don't remember that. I started playing in the beta, though not much really.
Though it does amuse me when people say that nothing has changed much since release. It really has, lol.
there IS no theoretical Open PVE. OPEN IS PVE all the time everywhere.
And what aspects would those be?
Of course you can defend against them. But shooting them wouldn't work even if they were in Open. You still haven't understood that yet? Also, you've come back to your time argument again. You still haven't realised that someone who has more time to play a game will always have an advantage over someone who doesn't. This is not something that should be "balanced".
You could just as easily pick up your own ball (more than one out there) and do something with it.
Again, the BGS cares about volume. It's why no single player matters in the long run. Sure, one player might give it a nudge to change a state or a little bit of minor faction influence, but it takes many players to have any appreciable impact in any short amount of time. Worth noting that UA bombing isn't BGS, it is a separate mechanic.
If you find that you don't have time, then mayber massive BGS work isn't something you can reasonably do. Kinda like how many players have decided that PvP isn't something they really want to be doing, chasing the meta and all that.
More often than not, BGS changes by groups of players is less about influencing others and more about getting a certain state change, like causing a boom to make trading super profitable and stuff.
And the fun part is, everyone engages in it, and everyone has an equal influence on it. As it stands, what you get out of it is directly proportional to the amount of effort you put in. Locking it to open wouldn't change that. And even if FD were to be short-sighted enough to lock BGS to open mode, people merely have to change their router settings to block P2P connections, something that FD can't control and would render this "change" totally pointless.
Honestly, this idea didn't survive the first time it came around (a bit over a year and a half ago I think). Read Albert Einstein's definition of insanity.
Everyone gets to play the game their way, not just you.
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
I've come to the conclusion you like to argue for the sake of argument.
Im really trying to meet in the middle here. And you just shoot down every little thing because you dont like it. Basically doing what you are accusing me of.
Im trying to make suggestions based off balancing for everyone. And once again, its unbalanced to others or this thread would not exist. But you just cant shoot everything down because you dont like PVP aspects of the game. And give some context to PVP which we dont have right now.
Its really frustrating with the my way or no way attitude. Especially when someone like me that is trying to meet in the middle. And not take anything away from the PVE aspect of the game, as you can see here in this thread that I linked above. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/375671-Half-baked-suggestion-Powerplay-PvPvE
And more specifcially this comment, https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...erplay-PvPvE?p=5899189&viewfull=1#post5899189
The only thing ive seen is whining, There has been no suggestions. Not trying to meet in the middle.
The difference between a whiner and constructive criticisms, is people work together. Its its quite obvious you have no intentions of doing that.
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And with that you are ascending into enlightenment of this thread and it's many duplicates. Now all you need to do is just resist temptation
Good luck friend
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
It certainly has, it's a lot easier to make money these days that's for sure (I'm typing this in a Monty Python voice - I'll be saying "when I were a lad we lived in a shoebox and were glad of it!" next).
Maybe he means like what Spiral Knights did where you can only play a certain amount each day (Energy) or pay to get more energy. Despite this, it was an adorable game.
You keep wanting to balance Solo and PG but you keep dodging my question regarding people who don't have the best of internet connections. Believe it or not, there are people out there that don't have good connections. Especially in deployed locations where you CAN NOT play in anything other than Solo. So, I ask you, What then, hmm? You want to deny them the ability to take part in affecting the BGS just because they don't have the money or a choice in what kind of connection they have?
And as I and others have stated, giving more reward in Open is completely exploitable by configuring your router to deny P2P connections. So it's all reward and no risk. And it's totally doable too.
I understand you wanting to find a middle ground, but there is no middle ground, not when there are people out there that don't have the luxury of a fast/stable connection, or people who can easily turn Open into Solo by checking a box on their router.
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WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
Ive said it thousand times.
Just like league of legends/Riot games will tell you. If you participate in ranked, or in this case PVP activity your bad connection can impact others. And games like League of Legends will ban you for it.
Stick to the PVE content in solo or private until your connection is better.
Its one of the biggest reasons they are fixing combat logging.
Its not anyone elses fault but your own if you have a bad connection. And if you know you have a bad connection. You shouldnt participate in said events until your connection permits you to.
Easy as Pie.
But im sure you'll ignore this just like you did that last 1000 times i've said it.
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