Modes The Open v Solo v Groups thread IV - Hotel California

Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
You wouldnt be who I am talking about then.

Just the whiners that clicked open knowing what can happen to them by playing in it. There are other options to begin with.

Those are the people I am specifically talking to.

If you just enjoy PVE on a PVE style server/mode whatever. Thats cool. more power to you.

A lot of the people you've been arguing with on this thread are probably not your intended audience then. Most people in this thread are more than happy for Open to stay Open, and for the other modes to exist. I'm not going to whine if I get attacked when I'm in Open. Most of the people that do come to the forums, start a rant thread, and then disappear again... There are only a handful of regulars that keep pushing the "I hate ganking, something must be done" line.

I'm still clueless as to what you are actually arguing for, though. All I see is arguments against various things.
 
A lot of the people you've been arguing with on this thread are probably not your intended audience then. Most people in this thread are more than happy for Open to stay Open, and for the other modes to exist. I'm not going to whine if I get attacked when I'm in Open. Most of the people that do come to the forums, start a rant thread, and then disappear again... There are only a handful of regulars that keep pushing the "I hate ganking, something must be done" line.

I'm still clueless as to what you are actually arguing for, though. All I see is arguments against various things.

If you dont get it by now. Its probably because you dont have the experience to understand. And im not trying to belittle you here.

I used to not know any of this crap until I got deep deep into it. No worries.
 
If you dont get it by now. Its probably because you dont have the experience to understand. And im not trying to belittle you here.

I used to not know any of this crap until I got deep deep into it. No worries.

That was a markedly nonsensical statement. Disagreement, doesn't indicate a lack of experience nor understanding. Most of the players responding to you have more experience than you, and you don;t seem to agree with them. Strange, right?
 
If you dont get it by now. Its probably because you dont have the experience to understand. And im not trying to belittle you here.

I used to not know any of this crap until I got deep deep into it. No worries.

I'm so glad I wasn't drinking coffee when I read that... I'd need a new keyboard.

You misunderstand (again). I don't know what you are arguing for. i.e. what it is that you want. Except for everyone to play in Open, and the other modes to not affect anything. That's all I've been able to work out. But you've already been given many reasons why neither of those will happen.
 
I'm so glad I wasn't drinking coffee when I read that... I'd need a new keyboard.

You misunderstand (again). I don't know what you are arguing for. i.e. what it is that you want. Except for everyone to play in Open, and the other modes to not affect anything. That's all I've been able to work out. But you've already been given many reasons why neither of those will happen.

Im arguing why this thread exists in the first place. I told you dudes I see both sides. But a specific few around here are doing exactly what you are accusing me of.

So if you dont like what I have to say thats fine. But it wont change the facts. And the facts are this thread exists for a reason, And game balancing happens in every game you play as it continues to grow. And these aspects we are talking about WILL be touched one day.

Thats just something you're going to have to come to terms with.

I understand this game quite well. I know how to manipulate the BGS, I know how to PVP, I know what it takes to do EVERYTHING in this game. As a PVPer you have to do EVERYTHING in this game. And as part of a large player group. YOU TAKE PART in everything of this game.

I teach people this game son.
 
As do Solo, Group and Open in each of the other platforms with whom they are also unable to directly instance due to reasons outside of FDev's control.
if i am in solo affecting bgs and someone else is opposing me in solo - they are directly playing against me. the only difference is we are having a direct effect on the bgs where as those relying ONLY on pvp are basically not. they are indirectly affect the few in open they get instanced with and not affect the many in open they do not get instanced with, nor the pg and solo crowd. but you seem to assume everyone on your own side is always in open. you have people in the other modes on your side who you will never see, so it balances out over time. you also have other players in open who eithe rbecause of timezones or because of the matchmaking YOU WILL NEVER SEE - on BOTH your and the enemy sides. the argument people use to 'stop non open players affecting bgs' displays the attitude 'if i cannot see them and kill them i cannot stop the bgs' which is FALSE and LAZY - you work the bgs you are more effective than pvp in stopping them. and the other argument seems to be 'if i cannot see someone on my side or in open on enemy side they don't exist.' and 'if the timezones mean enemies are not on at the same time ever as me THEY must not exist.'

every single one of those arguments is WRONG. thats a FACT. the people making the arguments never seem to follow the whole argument through to the logical conclusion and I must make the assumption its down their fundamental misunderstanding of both the BGS and how to work it, AND how elite handles the instancing of players (i assume they are thinking all players are on a server as in many mmo type games. elite is not really an mmo its a unique sort of hybrid.)
 
Im arguing why this thread exists in the first place. I told you dudes I see both sides. But a specific few around here are doing exactly what you are accusing me of.

So if you dont like what I have to say thats fine. But it wont change the facts. And the facts are this thread exists for a reason, And game balancing happens in every game you play as it continues to grow. And these aspects we are talking about WILL be touched one day.

Thats just something you're going to have to come to terms with.

I understand this game quite well. I know how to manipulate the BGS, I know how to PVP, I know what it takes to do EVERYTHING in this game. As a PVPer you have to do EVERYTHING in this game. And as part of a large player group. YOU TAKE PART in everything of this game.

I teach people this game son.

A lot of words that still don't answer my question...

And yes, there are unreasonable people on both sides of whatever arguments appear on these forums. No-one is denying that.

What is it that I have to come to terms with? :)
 
lol, that made me laugh, thanks for the link. I don't agree with Mobius on this. I enjoy engineering.

It is enjoyable and it brings a lot of dynamics. Its just not optimal for open play. Again you dont have to balance diablo 3 around PVP activities. You can be as OP as you want. Thats not that case for this game.

Thats why all weapons and modules are balanced around the PVP aspects of this game. Even down to the traders, FSDs, logout timers :D Hull on specific trading ships. You name it. Its all because of the impact other people have on each other. It literally has nothing to do with NPC's and PVE strict content. You dont have to balance around NPC's. Okay somewhat, we all remember them rapid fire plasmas :D those were dank.
 
Im arguing why this thread exists in the first place. I told you dudes I see both sides. But a specific few around here are doing exactly what you are accusing me of.

So if you dont like what I have to say thats fine. But it wont change the facts. And the facts are this thread exists for a reason, And game balancing happens in every game you play as it continues to grow. And these aspects we are talking about WILL be touched one day.

Thats just something you're going to have to come to terms with.

I understand this game quite well. I know how to manipulate the BGS, I know how to PVP, I know what it takes to do EVERYTHING in this game. As a PVPer you have to do EVERYTHING in this game. And as part of a large player group. YOU TAKE PART in everything of this game.

I teach people this game son.
i can answer why thread exists - not merely because people will continue when they cannot find non pvp build commanders to easily kill and complain about other modes.
think about it. if we ever settled this argument, we would all have to find something else to talk about when things are slow waiting for thargoids to happen. :D
plus the infinitesimal tiny chance someone will come up with a workable and good idea - even if not directly realted to the discussion.

btw admire your optimism that ms and sony will drop their war of console supremacy for max profit and 'pull their heads out' and wish i had some optimism...
 
Last edited:
It is enjoyable and it brings a lot of dynamics. Its just not optimal for open play. Again you dont have to balance diablo 3 around PVP activities. You can be as OP as you want. Thats not that case for this game.

Thats why all weapons and modules are balanced around the PVP aspects of this game. Even down to the traders, FSDs, logout timers :D Hull on specific trading ships. You name it. Its all because of the impact other people have on each other. It literally has nothing to do with NPC's and PVE strict content. You dont have to balance around NPC's. Okay somewhat, we all remember them rapid fire plasmas :D those were dank.

That's not completely true, balance leans to PvP, because NPC's never complain about the players being OP. But, concessions to that are made for PvE game play. I'll reference Shield Boosters, and Gimbals firing arc as examples. The idea here is, that FD view both sides of that question when they consider balance, using a practical overview of the game's needs. Even issues like jump range and costs are used to balance the games, those aspects of design have no exclusive connection to PvP.
 
A lot of words that still don't answer my question...

And yes, there are unreasonable people on both sides of whatever arguments appear on these forums. No-one is denying that.

What is it that I have to come to terms with? :)

Balances changes to open play and engineers, The BGS and the way it effects different types of player groups. Not the basic BGS you use if you arent part of a player group. And all this started with Powerplay.

Remember the games evolved since the kick starter days. And they are still going to honor those kickstarters. But at the same time, the player base is much larger than the few that participated in the kick starter. And you're going to balance the game around the larger portion of the community at the end of the day.

Over the course of game time development in any game. Things change, and things evolve. And balancing comes because of it. They will balance the BGS and how people effect it. They will balance engineers over the course of time. They will level the playing field. They want people to be pirated. They want people to use powerplay for more than modules. And they want people to have meaningful fights over territory.

Ya'll are mad at me because im saying I want changes.

Im telling you guys, we are going to get changes that benefit all of us in the end. "Meeting in the middle". Its not a I won HAHAHA I was right this whole time. Thats not what I am after.

What I am after is; is the removal of toxicity in these threads because you guys dont understand how a game evolves from the beginning. And the player base has to evolve with it.

This BGS stuff was great until the introduction of powerplay and player factions. But now things have changed. And people want to fight in more was than one(PVE).

This was never supposed to be a PVP vs PVE conversation. It never was supposed to be.

The conversation and Hotel California was supposed to be about game balancing. Not this bickering everyone is doing now.

Which is why Ive been telling everyone to calm down. There will be changes coming that will effect all of us. Nothing stays the same during the course of a game. Especially this early.

But ya'll tear each other up based on opinions. Think out side the box for a change.
 
Over the course of game time development in any game. Things change, and things evolve. And balancing comes because of it. They will balance the BGS and how people effect it. They will balance engineers over the course of time. They will level the playing field. They want people to be pirated. They want people to use powerplay for more than modules. And they want people to have meaningful fights over territory.

They've been balancing this game with every update since it was released.

Ya'll are mad at me because im saying I want changes.

I think you'll find that the vast majority of us want changes. It certainly isn't something that should make anyone mad.

Im telling you guys, we are going to get changes that benefit all of us in the end. "Meeting in the middle". Its not a I won HAHAHA I was right this whole time. Thats not what I am after.

Again, I don't disagree with this. But you aren't saying anything. It's a pointless statement.

What I am after is; is the removal of toxicity in these threads because you guys dont understand how a game evolves from the beginning. And the player base has to evolve with it.

The people that have been with this game (and others) from the beginning, don't know how it evolves? I think you'll find that a lot of us have watched this particular game evolve with far more interest than other games. As such, there are a lot of people on these forums that understand far more than you seem to think. You'll never avoid toxicity on a public forum.

This BGS stuff was great until the introduction of powerplay and player factions. But now things have changed. And people want to fight in more was than one(PVE).

Player factions are no different from other factions. Players can help or hinder any faction.

This was never supposed to be a PVP vs PVE conversation. It never was supposed to be.

The conversation and Hotel California was supposed to be about game balancing. Not this bickering everyone is doing now.

No. The clue is in the thread title. It's at the top of the page.

Which is why Ive been telling everyone to calm down. There will be changes coming that will effect all of us. Nothing stays the same during the course of a game. Especially this early.

But ya'll tear each other up based on opinions. Think out side the box for a change.

I'm perfectly calm, thank-you. ;)
 
Balances changes to open play and engineers, The BGS and the way it effects different types of player groups. Not the basic BGS you use if you arent part of a player group. And all this started with Powerplay.

Remember the games evolved since the kick starter days. And they are still going to honor those kickstarters. But at the same time, the player base is much larger than the few that participated in the kick starter. And you're going to balance the game around the larger portion of the community at the end of the day.

Over the course of game time development in any game. Things change, and things evolve. And balancing comes because of it. They will balance the BGS and how people effect it. They will balance engineers over the course of time. They will level the playing field. They want people to be pirated. They want people to use powerplay for more than modules. And they want people to have meaningful fights over territory.

Ya'll are mad at me because im saying I want changes.

Im telling you guys, we are going to get changes that benefit all of us in the end. "Meeting in the middle". Its not a I won HAHAHA I was right this whole time. Thats not what I am after.

What I am after is; is the removal of toxicity in these threads because you guys dont understand how a game evolves from the beginning. And the player base has to evolve with it.

This BGS stuff was great until the introduction of powerplay and player factions. But now things have changed. And people want to fight in more was than one(PVE).

This was never supposed to be a PVP vs PVE conversation. It never was supposed to be.

The conversation and Hotel California was supposed to be about game balancing. Not this bickering everyone is doing now.

Which is why Ive been telling everyone to calm down. There will be changes coming that will effect all of us. Nothing stays the same during the course of a game. Especially this early.

But ya'll tear each other up based on opinions. Think out side the box for a change.

Once and for all, the BGS and PP are completely separate. Player Groups exist outside of games, they are represented by in game Factions. Player inserted/named factions are exactly like all of the other factions around when considering the BGS.

It has been well established, even after the expansion into consoles, that the majority of players don't get involved with PvP. That means most players stick to PvE. To accommodate the most players, they will have to accommodate PvE by even your reckoning above.

Balance between weapons, ships, modules, will certainly evolve as the game progresses. You can see that in action already. What you haven't seen are changes to the basic foundations of the game. One of these foundations is the universal access to the BGS over all of the Modes and platforms. Your anticipation of a major shift to the views of the PvP crowd is seriously, over optimistic.

Change is fine. I'm not mad. I just disagree. One day you may notice the difference between the two.

As I have said before. What we have now IS the middle. And, it has been defended many times, by players and Dev's alike.

Power Play has no connection to the BGS. PLayer Factions are inserted as if they are any other faction. The only difference is the player group gets to choose the character of that faction. Once in the game, they function through the BGS just like an NPC faction. Those are the facts.

You made it so, when you suggested that PvP groups should get special considerations.

What you call balancing many of us call wrecking the game. Dis on Engineers all you like. If you can effect change to that, right on. Just don't mess with access to the heart of the game.

Disagreeing with you, doesn't mean anyone is not calm. It just means we don't agree with your assertions.

Out side of the box: Play and let play. Stop worrying about what others are doing, and get on with what you are doing. I promise to do the same.
 
Last edited:
I can promise you. They know how it works. There are only 15-20 of them. They would lose a bgs battle in sheer numbers alone. Not only that, they aint gonna spend their time on a time vs time battle.

Wish some of the guys would man up around here and fight back. Its the community's fault they hold their place like they do. Take back open for yourselves. Nothing wrong with getting your hands dirty.



Here is the full list of SDC for all your Spying and KoS needs:

Chance
Chunk-Fu
DeathDingo
Di4blo
Doctor Trauma
Doki
Farrago
FYI I decloak in plain sight
Gaius Coctavius
Harry Potter/Besieger
Hazzmango
InAbsentia
JohnRaanes
Jonuss
Kewpa
Kinmob
Lord Fondlemaid
MASS LOCKED MAFIA
m3atloaf
Oddisee
PeLucheuh
Phil_T_Casual
PiPko
Ragethe4KGamer
Rinzler o7o7o7
ryan_m17
shizulte
skramz
SmokeWeez
Sundae
theblackavenger
Under9000
Verax

Go get them.
Or use the block feature. They wont miss you either way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLbWnJGlyMU

Anyone else love the irony that this few people screwed up the game for so many? All those poor PVP people that lost out on possible gameplay when the rest of the folks in the game realized there was no real reason to respond to undesired PVP! Still say this was one of the best designs...and marketing campaigns any company ever devised....

Sure we have PVP! Sure you can hobokill anyone you desire! And then give those attacked a perfectly symmetrical way to play and ignore the actions of those that desire reaction.

...it's almost like a wise PVE player set it that way!
 
Anyone else love the irony that this few people screwed up the game for so many? All those poor PVP people that lost out on possible gameplay when the rest of the folks in the game realized there was no real reason to respond to undesired PVP! Still say this was one of the best designs...and marketing campaigns any company ever devised....

Sure we have PVP! Sure you can hobokill anyone you desire! And then give those attacked a perfectly symmetrical way to play and ignore the actions of those that desire reaction.

...it's almost like a wise PVE player set it that way!

And, it's not like all of this wasn't predicted. Even before I entered the fray, peeps had been saying this would happen, even during the design discussions. Wise heads did prevail, and I expect that wisdom to continue.
 
Balances changes to open play and engineers, The BGS and the way it effects different types of player groups. Not the basic BGS you use if you arent part of a player group. And all this started with Powerplay.

Remember the games evolved since the kick starter days. And they are still going to honor those kickstarters. But at the same time, the player base is much larger than the few that participated in the kick starter. And you're going to balance the game around the larger portion of the community at the end of the day.

Over the course of game time development in any game. Things change, and things evolve. And balancing comes because of it. They will balance the BGS and how people effect it. They will balance engineers over the course of time. They will level the playing field. They want people to be pirated. They want people to use powerplay for more than modules. And they want people to have meaningful fights over territory.

Ya'll are mad at me because im saying I want changes.

Im telling you guys, we are going to get changes that benefit all of us in the end. "Meeting in the middle". Its not a I won HAHAHA I was right this whole time. Thats not what I am after.

What I am after is; is the removal of toxicity in these threads because you guys dont understand how a game evolves from the beginning. And the player base has to evolve with it.

This BGS stuff was great until the introduction of powerplay and player factions. But now things have changed. And people want to fight in more was than one(PVE).

This was never supposed to be a PVP vs PVE conversation. It never was supposed to be.

The conversation and Hotel California was supposed to be about game balancing. Not this bickering everyone is doing now.

Which is why Ive been telling everyone to calm down. There will be changes coming that will effect all of us. Nothing stays the same during the course of a game. Especially this early.

But ya'll tear each other up based on opinions. Think out side the box for a change.

Your requirement of changing the game into something that it is not designed to be is not about 'balance', it's about getting the devs to change this game into something that it isn't...and the devs have shown no interest in bringing PVP out of the sideshow status....

The design is not set for that...they created a PVP mode different from the game...and that was an abject failure....

So...I will say this again....tilt at your windmills all you like..but remember:

'Too much sanity may be madness — and maddest of all: to see life as it is, and not as it should be!'

We are telling you that what you want is not going to happen because the devs have no interest in making the changes you desire....not because of how we want the game to be...or not to be.
 
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom