The Open v Solo v Groups thread

[Fcsuper]

Players do CGs for many reasons; Some for the reward, some for the story, some for the 'thrill of being shot at', some to see other ships in the station when 90%+ of the time we don't see another player, some to measure themselves against other Cmdrs doing the same activity. I'm sure there's a bunch of other reasons on top of these.
That a couple of combat fans found a hauling CG not to their tastes isn't surprising. I'm somewhat surprised that Fdev dropped the requirement for the rack as this immediately killed the competitive aspect of the CG (Though there's still some Cmdr delivering >50k tonnes per day somehow, 20k per day is a slog, when do they sleep? )

CMDR Mechan has to take the bulk of the responsibility for convincing FDEV to do this in his video. FDEV is punishing us. Some of us argued against the whole idea. For me, there's bigger problems with CGs which aren't going to get fixed by tinkering with one CG that happened to be going on at the moment. However, on the flip side, I didn't mind the absolute minimum amount of work I had to do in order to join the CG to earn the rewards.

 

[Cmdr Hbomb]

Came here to beg for PP to be open only but the fact that this thread exist as a catch all I guess that never going to happen. Which really sucks because this could help continue the comeback momentum they seem to be building this year. I think knowledge of continued updates like this past year and knowing you cant just hide in solo or pvt to affect PP and even BGS would go a long way in bringing people back. I am newly returning after a few years break and love a lot of the changes and momentum of updates. It finally feels like fdev care about elite again in more than just updates for bug fixes and that makes me so happy. All this to say I am at pvp but I only play open because to me thats the way the game should be experienced. I cant comprehend being able to the BGS or PP system from solo and pvt. It removes factions ability to even defend themselves from folks just grinding away at their rep as ghost.

Obviously I think for this to happen the crime and punishment needs to be adjusted so that penalties for griefing are much worse and new players areas need to be restricted again so theres no seal clubbing. System security should get a buff too or something to deter jerks from being jerks, but standard piracy and pvp for the sake of system defense and pp should be fair game. It would actually make the game dangerous again...

 

[Robert Maynard]

I think knowledge of continued updates like this past year and knowing you cant just hide in solo or pvt to affect PP and even BGS would go a long way in bringing people back.

Which people? Noting that while some players like PvP, some don't.

 

[Cmdr Hbomb]

People who want an mmo space game mostly. People who dont want whatever effort they put into the game in open undone by someone they cant see or challenge. Playing in open doesnt mean you HAVE to take part in pvp but it means there is the risk taht it could happen, thats all. Running and evading is not that hard.

 

[Robert Maynard]

People who want an mmo space game mostly. People who dont want whatever effort they put into the game in open undone by someone they cant see or challenge. Playing in open doesnt mean you HAVE to take part in pvp but it means there is the risk taht it could happen, thats all. Running and evading is not that hard.

Yet they bought the same game, on the same terms, as those who have zero interest in in-the-same-instance PvP but may have an interest in the game's offer that "each player’s unique journey influences the connected gaming experience" (whether or not they choose to play among other players).

 

[Riverside]

Which people? Noting that while some players like PvP, some don't.

There is room for activities which are affected by direct PvP or at least open only. I don't think powerplay is it but meaningful PvP could be part of powerplay, or something like it.

It would need to be a self-contained challenge/reward system rather than something which could affect or be affected by PvE activities to be acceptable to both camps though imo.

 

[Cmdr Hbomb]

So disconnect bgs, COMMUNITY goals and PP from the rest and let them stay in their lane of enjoyment, but dont let them affect other players. IF you dont want to see other players or be bothered then why should you have the option to bother other players by messing with their work on the bgs or on pp or cg's? If you prefer a single player experience then have the single player experience.

 

[Cmdr Hbomb]

For PP it should just be a possibility, not an absolute conclusion. If you bring things into an independent system as an empire pilot and other independent players are in that system they may try to interdict you before you complete your task, or they may not. I am just saying if you are trying to affect the bgs, cg, pp you should have risks.

 

[Robert Maynard]

So disconnect bgs, COMMUNITY goals and PP from the rest and let them stay in their lane of enjoyment, but dont let them affect other players. IF you dont want to see other players or be bothered then why should you have the option to bother other players by messing with their work on the bgs or on pp or cg's? If you prefer a single player experience then have the single player experience.

That's not what the game offers - while it may be the desire of some who would have no issue making the gameplay of those in Solo and Private Groups effectively meaningless in their pursuit of "meaningful PvP".

The BGS, Powerplay and CGs belong to those who play in Open no more than those who play in the other game modes - so those who complain that players in Solo and Private Groups are affecting "their" BGS seem to be claiming ownership of something that does not belong to them.

 

[Cmdr Hbomb]

That's not what the game offers - while it may be what some who would have no issue making the gameplay of those in Solo and Private Groups effectively meaningless in their pursuit of "meaningful PvP".

You and others focus way too much on the possibility of pvp meaning all out pvp. I am only talking about the risk of pvp/seeing other players would be a nice change. I play open only and rarely see other players unless its for a CG. Changing the rules of the game would not turn the galaxy into a shootout. And to your point that the BGS/CG/PP dont belong to open players more than others, I think you are wrong, and that is kind of my whole point about why I wish it to change. The game needs to make changes to draw more players, we should want that if we love this game and want it to continue being updated with new features before fdev goes bankrupt lol

 

[Riverside]

For PP it should just be a possibility, not an absolute conclusion. If you bring things into an independent system as an empire pilot and other independent players are in that system they may try to interdict you before you complete your task, or they may not. I am just saying if you are trying to affect the bgs, cg, pp you should have risks.

For that to work it would need to be open only and with some sort of additional rule changes (eg the blocklist reverting to only chat instead of instancing). That's something FDev /could/ implement of course, it technically could be done but it would be divisive among the community.

 

[Robert Maynard]

You and others focus way too much on the possibility of pvp meaning all out pvp.

For some PvP represents a tediously predictable waste of game time - and this game does not require any player to engage in PvP to affect any in-game feature.

I am only talking about the risk of pvp/seeing other players would be a nice change.

Seeing players can be great fun - what those players mayt then choose to do, given that they can shoot at anything they instance with, tends to be where the issue starts for those of differing play-styles.

I play open only and rarely see other players unless its for a CG.

Why should players be forced into Open to satisfy those who don't see other players?

Changing the rules of the game would not turn the galaxy into a shootout.

Indeed - as it may result in a significant reduction in player numbers.

And to your point that the BGS/CG/PP dont belong to open players more than others, I think you are wrong, and that is kind of my whole point about why I wish it to change.

Naturally opinions vary.

The game needs to make changes to draw more players, we should want that if we love this game and want it to continue being updated with new features before fdev goes bankrupt lol

Of course players want changes - the problem is that some players want changes that are diametrically opposed to those that some other players want. The only thing that players may have in common is that they play the same game.

 

[Cmdr Hbomb]

Player numbers cant get much lower lol they need to make changes to entice others into the game. For the last time as I am not going to keep replying to you and wasting either of our time repeating the same information back and forth to each other, I understand that is not how the game currently functions but my entire post is about my opinion on how and why that should change. Your opinion is that it should not, heard, understood, disagree. Play in pvt/solo but no reason to affect the open systems you want no part in. New systems would need to be introduced sure, and I am sure fdev could figure that out. Like it or not they said at release pp will be the same eluding to the possibility they are considering changing from its current model to open only, time will tell for sure.

 

[Brrokk]

Such a familiar trajectory. Open-only PP... I can feel some sympathy with that idea for some parts of PP; I have no objection to ED having a PvP feature for those who would enjoy it. But then other ideas quickly get rolled in: people not in Open are hiding from us; PP isn't enough, we must have BGS as well; Block needs to be watered down.

My answer: nope. I'm pretty sure Block is as non-negotiable to FD as it is to me, seeing the work they've put into setting it up. And given the way ED works, any time I have an incentive to play in Open but don't want to meet other players, all I have to do is read the Port-Forwarding Thread and do the opposite of what it says. None of that is going to change, and insisting on the BGS and Block ideas is a great way to lose the PP suggestion.

 

[wrmiller]

Same arguments, different year.

@Robert Maynard I've been listening to you attempt to converse intelligently in these threads since I joined in '16. And nobody's opinion has moved an inch (or 2.54 cm for those across the pond). Don't you tire of this nonsense?

 

[Felix DiCestria]

Such a familiar trajectory. Open-only PP... I can feel some sympathy with that idea for some parts of PP; I have no objection to ED having a PvP feature for those who would enjoy it. But then other ideas quickly get rolled in: people not in Open are hiding from us; PP isn't enough, we must have BGS as well; block needs to be watered down.

My answer: nope. I'm pretty sure Block is as non-negotiable to FD as it is to me, seeing the work they've put into setting it up. And given the way ED works, any time I have an incentive to play in Open but don't want to meet other players, all I have to do is read the Port-Forwarding Thread and do the opposite of what it says. None of that is going to change, and insisting on the BGS and Block ideas is a great way to lose the PP suggestion.

Well it isn't called Hotel California for nothing. The repetitive nature of the argument is telling.

 

[Cmdr Hbomb]

Such a familiar trajectory. Open-only PP... I can feel some sympathy with that idea for some parts of PP; I have no objection to ED having a PvP feature for those who would enjoy it. But then other ideas quickly get rolled in: people not in Open are hiding from us; PP isn't enough, we must have BGS as well; block needs to be watered down.

My answer: nope. I'm pretty sure Block is as non-negotiable to FD as it is to me, seeing the work they've put into setting it up. And given the way ED works, any time I have an incentive to play in Open but don't want to meet other players, all I have to do is read the Port-Forwarding Thread and do the opposite of what it says. None of that is going to change, and insisting on the BGS and Block ideas is a great way to lose the PP suggestion.

I dont expect it to change, it is way too late now, but I have some small amount of hope that they see the need unfracture the community. I forget about the port forwarding thing, so few games are p2p nowadays I forget elite is one...until I try to squad up with a friend. I obviously dont have the answers on how to make it all function correctly I just wish they would figure it out and implement it in a way that is somewhere in the middle of what we all want. PVP isnt an absolute conclusion of being in open, but I know some people are psychos who without guard rails would make the game miserable for some. Which again is why I see no issue keeping pvt/solo as more of an offline mode.

 

[Cmdr Hbomb]

Well it isn't called Hotel California for nothing. The repetitive nature of the argument is telling.

XD sorry...I never post in the forums hardly, so of course I end up here too...

 

[wrmiller]

I would love a single-player, offline version of this game. One that can be modded like X4 to make it my own. That would be too cool!

 

[Darrack]

Which really sucks because this could help continue the comeback momentum they seem to be building this year

Nope it wouldn't, 14K members on a PVE server says otherwise.

O7