The Open v Solo v Groups thread

[Riverside]

I'd suggest that in a game where other players are an optional extra (in terms of who each player chooses to play among) there's no need to be tolerant of other players. Whether a player in a mode other than Open is being actively intolerant or simply "playing their way" makes no odds.

But other players add to your game, that's the point of Open PvE isn't it? To meet other players without any risk that they will shoot at you.

You also cannot avoid the multi-player aspect of the game when it comes to the BGS. If you play in a way that you care about that you are affecting, and affected by other players who can crush months or years of work just as impersonally as the Thargoid Maelstroms are.

The main downside of playing in Open is that some of those you meet might attack you. If you block you deal with that one player, but the threat of attack remains, if you go to a private group you will only meet other players in that private group & there are lots of groups. Great for meeting a few friends but not ideal for random encounters.
Hence the desire for an Open environment but without having to be bothered by all that 'other players that might inconvenience me' stuff, right?

So blocking is sub-optimal, private groups are sub optimal. It seems clear to me that the ideal solution (a way to maximise your chances of meeting others while minimising the inconvenience of jerks) is to learn to deal with the jerks so that they are no longer a distraction. You get what you want, the best chance of meeting others without concern that you will have unwanted activities 'forced' on you, and others get an extra Cmdr they can meet & interact with.

I mean, it's the perfect solution for you, right? Private Groups & Solo will still be there if you feel the need (I unsubscribed from Mobius years ago to free up my slot for someone else to use) & when you make proposals that might change the feel of Open you can do so from (recent) personal experience.

 

[Robert Maynard]

But other players add to your game, that's the point of Open PvE isn't it? To meet other players without any risk that they will shoot at you.

Indeed it is the point, however we don't all get what we want.

You also cannot avoid the multi-player aspect of the game when it comes to the BGS. If you play in a way that you care about that you are affecting, and affected by other players who can crush months or years of work just as impersonally as the Thargoid Maelstroms are.

Of course not - it's part and parcel of the mode shared galaxy that we all affect and experience, whether or not we choose to play among other players.

So blocking is sub-optimal, private groups are sub optimal. It seems clear to me that the ideal solution (a way to maximise your chances of meeting others while minimising the inconvenience of jerks) is to learn to deal with the jerks so that they are no longer a distraction. You get what you want, the best chance of meeting others without concern that you will have unwanted activities 'forced' on you, and others get an extra Cmdr they can meet & interact with.

I'd rather not spend my time doing something I have zero interest in and don't enjoy - nor giving those who care not about their targets any extra targets.

 

[SteveWW57]

is to learn to deal with the jerks so that they are no longer a distraction.

So an inordinate amount of time will have to be devoted to learning specific skills, unlocking engineers and gathering materials. And not getting to play the game. This seems like a barrier to entry (to open). The better off keeping the riff raff out of their playing area if you will.

I mean, it's the perfect solution for you, right? Private Groups & Solo will still be there if you feel the need (I unsubscribed from Mobius years ago to free up my slot for someone else to use) & when you make proposals that might change the feel of Open you can do so from (recent) personal experience.

Consider the effects of splitting the existing open mode into two (not going to happen and has been aired before), PvP and PvE. It is a likely possibility that the majority of players will spend most of their time in PvE and be happy, occasionally dipping into PvP if they feel like taking risks. Those in PvP would find many less targets and would likely to be less happy than those in PvE. The PvP mode would benefit from improved instancing as there would be no blocking to disrupt it.

Steve

 

[Riverside]

I'd rather not spend my time doing something I have zero interest in and don't enjoy - nor giving those who care not about their targets any extra targets.

I have no interest in PvP, I don't let the possibility of being attacked stop me doing what I want though, I fly robust or fast ships and / or accept the rebuy without complaint (I have said before I call them meet & greets) & have made friends that way, no doubt in part because I was polite & respectful about it afterwards. You could too, there is nothing preventing you from having what you want except your own stubbornness.

Personally I don't fire on other Cmdrs (this is not a guarantee), I am happy enough to accommodate other Cmdrs that want to fire on me, they are extra (optional even in Open) content for me, and I am (hopefully entertaining) content for them. I am not particularly sociable but I am part of an inclusive community, not an exclusive one.


I feel I must stress that I am proposing this as a solution to your (and anyone elses) desire to be sociable. If someone is not interested in directly interacting at all or only with a few friends/like minded Cmdrs solo & Private Groups are a good solution for them.

 

[Darrack]

It would have its fans, I'm sure, especially those who dare to stream - it could be a pretty good challenge to see how it goes, and possibly more enthralling viewing.

Never had any interest in watching streamers so i still wouldn't see it

O7

 

[Robert Maynard]

You could too, there is nothing preventing you from having what you want except your own stubbornness.

Not nothing, no - inclination to accommodate those who add no fun would be the starting point - and there's none.

 

[Sakashiro]

If only FDev would put something into the game to mitigate ganking...

Oh wait, they did! Shield generators, shield boosters, shield reinforcements, hull reinforcements, module reinforcements, military grade armor, heavy duty modification, deep plating experimental effect, super capacitors, resistance augmentation, yadda yadda yadda.

Let's face it: blocking and combat logging is for people who suck at playing the game.

 

[Riverside]

So an inordinate amount of time will have to be devoted to learning specific skills, unlocking engineers and gathering materials. And not getting to play the game. This seems like a barrier to entry (to open). The better off keeping the riff raff out of their playing area if you will.

Well you can do that, I certainly have (been playing for years so it was kind of inevitable) but the basics of evasion can be picked up fairly quickly by those willing to give it a go.

As far as your riff raff comment goes I get that you mean gankers only where I would interpret it as extremist jerks at either end of the spectrum but as I wrote in an earlier post, you can't enforce Wheaton's Law, all you can do is try to not be a jerk yourself. If you feel being attacked (by a jerk) might make you feel or act like a jerk it probably is best for all concerned that you not expose yourself (and others) to the risk of that.

 

[Darrack]

Let's face it: blocking and combat logging is for people who suck at playing the game

Utter rubbish, its that attitude that keeps me out of Open.
But obviously i wouldn't fit in amongst the obviously far superior race of folks in Open anyway.

O7

 

[Riverside]

Not nothing, no - inclination to accommodate those who add no fun would be the starting point - and there's none.

Yet you claim to speak on behalf of others? Surely they can decide for themselves, just as you did.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Yet you claim to speak on behalf of others? Surely they can decide for themselves, just as you did.

We all speak for ourselves.

 

[SteveWW57]

As far as your riff raff comment goes I get that you mean gankers ...

I was trying to split CMDRs into those with the skills etc (the cream of the crop) able to play successfully in open as opposed to the less skilled or not willing to stump up the entry fee to play in open.

And I would put myself in amongst the riff raff.

Steve

 

[Darrack]

I was trying to split CMDRs into those with the skills etc (the cream of the crop) able to play successfully in open as opposed to the less skilled or not willing to stump up the entry fee to play in open.

And I would put myself in amongst the riff raff.

Steve

Yep i have no skill whatsover so guess i will bring my block button along and join you in the riff raff.

O7

 

[Riverside]

I was trying to split CMDRs into those with the skills etc (the cream of the crop) able to play successfully in open as opposed to the less skilled or not willing to stump up the entry fee to play in open.

And I would put myself in amongst the riff raff.

Steve

Ah ok

I struggle with imposter syndrome even though I have achieved plenty of things I'm personally proud of, and some of my proudest achievements in ED are where I overcame what I feel are my weak social skills to persuade others to help me or even follow my tactical advice. I am always respectful of the skills of others and very much aware that every time I meet another Cmdr they may well be much more adept at something I am embarrassingly bad at.

However most Cmdrs I have met have also been pretty bad & my assumption of what the average skill level is has been optimistic. One of those 'everyone is as bad as I am' situations That applies to most Deciat Ganker types too - most (very definitely not all) are only a bit better than the Cmdrs they try to pop. But they practice & practice and become more effective. You don't have to be the best, you just have to not be the worst. The first time you try you won't be successful but if you do it a lot you will quickly improve too. If you want to.

But every so often I come across another Cmdr who is better. Sometimes not just better but so much more skilled that I just cannot do things they can do. It's amazing to watch even if they are attacking me

A couple of examples. I did some PvP one-on-ones somewhere in a Beta & I built myself an FDL to see what the fuss was all about. I'm pretty good at PvE, certainly enough to know what weapons I'm okay with & what I can't hit a barn door with so no PAs for me, just a fixed long range beam and some (probably) multi-cannons (might have been frags I don't remember). My first ever arranged PvP fight was against Alexander the Grape & I assumed he would absolutely slaughter me. From the beginning the flight was clearly going his way but I kept my distance, use my long range beam to it's strengths & each time he came in close went blammo with my close range weapons. After maybe 10 minutes I was done for & very much more aware than I had been just how many factors need to be managed in PvP rather than just tanking damage like most do in PvE. Grape's feedback was essentially I have poor aim but can evade really well. I have tried to maintain & manage shields like he did in that fight, but I just make too many little mistakes. He was amazing to watch.

In another fight I had some guy 'helpfully' say he'd go easy on me because I was a PvE scrub, after maybe 15 minutes his FAS was out of SCB & PA ammo so he couldn't ram me or fire at me. I was out of multicannon/frag ammo but my shields were still up because every time he fired his PAs it was from too far away & I just jinked sideways, up or down with my thrusters, keeping in the blue zone for maximum manoeuvrability until he ran out of ammo, while keeping my fixed beam chipping away at his shields & eventually hull. Never saw him again, nice guy though. I got jumped by a Cobra MkIII after that guy left, and a Vulture after that, both jumped out after a few minutes of continuous fire from my long range fixed beam despite my other weapons being out of ammo. So turns out I'm bad, but others are too

Then there was the time i was trying to flip my home system to Anarchy. I already had two other Cmdrs helping me but the opposition was just too much & I needed more help. One of the other Cmdrs (Slange Lands) persuaded/bullied a friend to come & join us & Morbad rocked up in a twin beam Vulture. I was thinking we needed a bit more firepower than that but he was experimenting with the thermal conduit mod on (I assume) efficient fixed beams and just tore through CZs, it was amazing to watch. He was able to balance the heat of his ship (for increased DPS) against the damage the heat caused to his ship in a way that I have tried & just cannot do. I can kill 2-3 ships in a build like that before it falls apart from heat damage. Amazing to see, very much not a 'normal' Cmdr no matter what he tells you

You don't have to be the best, you just have to be willing to show up

 

[Darrack]

Ah ok

I struggle with imposter syndrome even though I have achieved plenty of things I'm personally proud of, and some of my proudest achievements in ED are where I overcame what I feel are my weak social skills to persuade others to help me or even follow my tactical advice. I am always respectful of the skills of others and very much aware that every time I meet another Cmdr they may well be much more adept at something I am embarrassingly bad at.

However most Cmdrs I have met have also been pretty bad & my assumption of what the average skill level is has been optimistic. One of those 'everyone is as bad as I am' situations That applies to most Deciat Ganker types too - most (very definitely not all) are only a bit better than the Cmdrs they try to pop. But they practice & practice and become more effective. You don't have to be the best, you just have to not be the worst. The first time you try you won't be successful but if you do it a lot you will quickly improve too. If you want to.

But every so often I come across another Cmdr who is better. Sometimes not just better but so much more skilled that I just cannot do things they can do. It's amazing to watch even if they are attacking me

A couple of examples. I did some PvP one-on-ones somewhere in a Beta & I built myself an FDL to see what the fuss was all about. I'm pretty good at PvE, certainly enough to know what weapons I'm okay with & what I can't hit a barn door with so no PAs for me, just a fixed long range beam and some (probably) multi-cannons (might have been frags I don't remember). My first ever arranged PvP fight was against Alexander the Grape & I assumed he would absolutely slaughter me. From the beginning the flight was clearly going his way but I kept my distance, use my long range beam to it's strengths & each time he came in close went blammo with my close range weapons. After maybe 10 minutes I was done for & very much more aware than I had been just how many factors need to be managed in PvP rather than just tanking damage like most do in PvE. Grape's feedback was essentially I have poor aim but can evade really well. I have tried to maintain & manage shields like he did in that fight, but I just make too many little mistakes. He was amazing to watch.

In another fight I had some guy 'helpfully' say he'd go easy on me because I was a PvE scrub, after maybe 15 minutes his FAS was out of SCB & PA ammo so he couldn't ram me or fire at me. I was out of multicannon/frag ammo but my shields were still up because every time he fired his PAs it was from too far away & I just jinked sideways, up or down with my thrusters, keeping in the blue zone for maximum manoeuvrability until he ran out of ammo, while keeping my fixed beam chipping away at his shields & eventually hull. Never saw him again, nice guy though. I got jumped by a Cobra MkIII after that guy left, and a Vulture after that, both jumped out after a few minutes of continuous fire from my long range fixed beam despite my other weapons being out of ammo. So turns out I'm bad, but others are too

Then there was the time i was trying to flip my home system to Anarchy. I already had two other Cmdrs helping me but the opposition was just too much & I needed more help. One of the other Cmdrs (Slange Lands) persuaded/bullied a friend to come & join us & Morbad rocked up in a twin beam Vulture. I was thinking we needed a bit more firepower than that but he was experimenting with the thermal conduit mod on (I assume) efficient fixed beams and just tore through CZs, it was amazing to watch. He was able to balance the heat of his ship (for increased DPS) against the damage the heat caused to his ship in a way that I have tried & just cannot do. I can kill 2-3 ships in a build like that before it falls apart from heat damage. Amazing to see, very much not a 'normal' Cmdr no matter what he tells you

You don't have to be the best, you just have to be willing to show up

Many of us don't measure a Commanders skill in Elite by their combat ability, after all that's only 1 of 6 available ranks outside of the three reputation ranks.
How many gankers can land a Beluga at HD 148937 first try?

O7

 

[Riverside]

Many of us don't measure a Commanders skill in Elite by their combat ability, after all that's only 1 of 6 available ranks outside of the three reputation ranks.
How many gankers can land a Beluga at HD 148937 first try?

O7

I assume that's a high gravity planet? It's pretty easy when you have thrusters mapped to an analogue control axis, even less risky with beefy shields & armour. Having the tenacity to travel to some distant place is probably what most non-explorer types would consider the hard part but hitching a ride on a carrier can take the pain out of that now too.

First thing I did when 3.3 launched in late 2018 was visit that high-G planet in Achenar in an Eagle to scan some geo stuff. I sat on the ground for ages watching NPC police ships dip their nose to scan me & plummet into the ground

 

[Rubbernuke]

Indeed he did - and also advised that the list of game features even being considered by the Devs for such change had one item on it and even then that topic was clearly stated to be investigative and not a fait accompli.

And hence why these topics still exist. The devs thought like this (I wonder how they feel now?), part of the playerbase think like this....maybe something has to change? Whatever they do I hope it makes things harder and not easier, because this is what Open offers challenge wise but does not reward at the same time in game terms.

 

[Fizzatron]

If only FDev would put something into the game to mitigate ganking...

Oh wait, they did! Shield generators, shield boosters, shield reinforcements, hull reinforcements, module reinforcements, military grade armor, heavy duty modification, deep plating experimental effect, super capacitors, resistance augmentation, yadda yadda yadda.

Let's face it: blocking and combat logging is for people who suck at playing the game.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

If only FDev would put something into the game to mitigate ganking...

Oh wait, they did! Shield generators, shield boosters, shield reinforcements, hull reinforcements, module reinforcements, military grade armor, heavy duty modification, deep plating experimental effect, super capacitors, resistance augmentation,

solo and private modes.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

So blocking is sub-optimal, private groups are sub optimal. It seems clear to me that the ideal solution (a way to maximise your chances of meeting others while minimising the inconvenience of jerks) is to learn to deal with the jerks so that they are no longer a distraction. You get what you want, the best chance of meeting others without concern that you will have unwanted activities 'forced' on you, and others get an extra Cmdr they can meet & interact with.

I mean, it's the perfect solution for you, right? Private Groups & Solo will still be there if you feel the need (I unsubscribed from Mobius years ago to free up my slot for someone else to use) & when you make proposals that might change the feel of Open you can do so from (recent) personal experience.

Blocking is kind of grind. Do it long enough and you will seriously skew random selection of people you meet towards non ganker players or at least towards rookie gankers.
Of course one can make that grind faster by doing little OSINT with various out of game sources, like gankers themselves braggind about their activities and so on.