14k total members in a pvt group AXI has a 10k+ pvt group for their factions doesnt mean theres that many people on their pvt server at a given time, let alone exclusively. Thinking that is all, or most of the community is the equivalent of me thinking that the 4200 players reported in steam are the only people playing elite right now or in the last 24hr.
The Open v Solo v Groups thread
- Thread starter Ozric
- Start date
Modes - The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread [See new thread]
There have been several threads on the topic of switching between solo/private groups/open. This thread is going to be the merge target for all other threads on the topic, no matter how 'unique' the thread creator may think their thread is. Creating a poll is not unique. Posting in here has...
Modes - The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Part the Second [Now With Added Platforms].
Elite Dangerous is an online game that allows players to play in three potential 'modes': Online ALL group (called open play) where the player is in the same universe as all other players and can see and be seen by all others in open play Online PRIVATE GROUP play where the player is online in...
Modes - The Solo vs Open vs Groups Thread - Mk III
Elite Dangerous is an online game that allows players to play in three potential 'modes': Online ALL group (called open play) where the player is in the same universe as all other players and can see and be seen by all others in open play Online PRIVATE GROUP play where the player is online in...
Modes - The Open v Solo v Groups thread IV - Hotel California
Elite Dangerous is an online game that allows players to play in three potential 'modes': Online ALL group (called open play) where the player is in the same universe as all other players and can see and be seen by all others in open play Online PRIVATE GROUP play where the player is online in...
What i am trying to point out is that in my 30+ years experience in MMOs you lose more players pushing PvP than you gain, far more, why do you think WOW has separate servers or ESO specifically made one zone (only one!) for PvP?
But once again we are losing track, there is no PvP in ESO otherwise folks would be on here banging on about changes to CQC.
Murder boat vs trader isn't PvP, anyone who thinks it is are delusional, organise a proper PvP area and see how many actually turn up.
O7
The old FSD engines are factory, had the added effect of fast charging.
I.e. even after getting a Thunder missile, you can make a long-range jump and escape.
Since you went into the open game you knew what you were getting into and added the shield.
On the other hand, trading is profit, what is the point of doing it in open game since there is no risk fee....
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
The debate started around the time the Kickstarter ended - so it's been going for nearly twelve years - it'd be a hard habit to break now....
Is open really open ?
Do we all instance together?
Do we all play together at the same time ?
Are the blocking facilities switched off ?
If the answer is no to any of them then Open in America west coast is hiding from the Brits who are in turn hiding from the Australians .
Open can't handle all the players at the same time someone would eventually be hiding ( intentionally or not) from someone else.
So the question is a moot point There isn't just one open there are multiple opens along with multiple PG and multiple Solo players.
Do we all instance together?
Do we all play together at the same time ?
Are the blocking facilities switched off ?
If the answer is no to any of them then Open in America west coast is hiding from the Brits who are in turn hiding from the Australians .
Open can't handle all the players at the same time someone would eventually be hiding ( intentionally or not) from someone else.
So the question is a moot point There isn't just one open there are multiple opens along with multiple PG and multiple Solo players.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
There are two of them in the live game and players in one don't instance with players in the other - so:
No - even in "Open".
I wish the open only crowd was able to state their case just once without using derogatory terms like "hiding" or asking to take essential features of ED away from those who don't want to play with them. Just once. Maybe their arguments wouldn't fall on deaf ears then. Or maybe they still will.
![[VR] Bulbulunufus](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/261/261245.jpg?1671230473){kind=avatar}
The open-only silo thread, a vital rite of passage for all open-only players! I think you did well - bravo
.Come in, get ganged by the same five guys, leave having wished you did something else, and then the next guy comes in and it all starts again.
im not frequenting this thread often, and certainly havent read it whole, but i do believe ive seen a couple of those. i think that if you were to look up just posts from bulbulunufus in this thread you would find some.
but i can give you a fresh one.
there is this system that was under my squads control for quite some time. the system is really unique, it was even pointed out on this forum, yet it remained (seemingly) without traffic, without visitors, without activity.
i wanted to conduct some experiments in the area (looking for potential raxxla clues of course) and gained permission from my squad to move the system under control of its native npc anarchy faction. this operation was conducted with few more raxxla hunters that lent hand in the process of moving the control, we moved almost all assets under this anarchy faction and system returned to its normal traffic: (almost) none. (there were few small inf drops that are to be expected with a lot of anarchy settlements open for shopping, but nothing a single visit and few missions wouldnt fix)
recently traffic spiked from 0-5 on inara to 30-40+ and our squadron was pushed to retreat, which forced our hand and system is now in the process of federal recapture.
yet there is noone to be seen in the system. my squad is pulling moves (just from missions we pull ~50inf per cmdr daily) yet our inf is tanking, negative system states are piling up, settlement is being shut down (without the actual shutdown state ofc, because game is good). and the system ingame is still vacant of commanders.
i wish we could talk to these people, find out whats going on, whats their motive, maybe find some diplomatic solution. (if they just wanted to support this cool faction in a cool system im sure we could find some agreement of coexistence, as we had with others in the past)
and, of course, i also wish that if you are causing problems for me and pushing me to a show of force that i would be able to face you and try to stop you.
but generally from my experience when something like this happens, its not some poor traders hauling to make the ends meet, being afraid of the bad boogiemen in the open.
when something like this happens, its caused by people who dont care about fair approach, who will take every chance to get the upper hand. people who even take pleasure and pride in going behind your back and taking a dookie in your garden without you being able to do anything about it. "if i can take advantage of you, why shouldnt i" they say.
its an issue of ethos and morality, and i say so mainly because the game lets you do so. you could almost say that you are invited to do so by non-open modes being provided to you (and by crime and punishment system being a very minor inconvenience [if any at all], but thats another thread
). so it comes down to a choice: do i want to play nice, or do i want to play dirty?i wish i could "force" my fair game approach onto my enemies, but i also recognise the value of other play modes. i sometimes use them as well (when not doing bgs/pp) and i respect all good people who play in those. its not like solo/pg is a tool just to sabotage your enemy...
i wish that when i play nice you would play nice too. i find reciprocity an essential element of all interpersonal relations. (note: playing nice != peaceful)
i think elite is unique in many ways. one being solo/open existing side by side, interconnected by the world yet separate by instancing. its not like you can fire up a ranked game of counter strike without opponents, waddle through the map, plant the bomb and make everyone else on the enemy team lose without them being able to do anything about it, or even knowing about it until its too late.
i think elite was made in time when online gaming wasnt that prevalent and when all the issues that come with it werent that known. therefore the system doesnt account for them like many newer games do. the game was built with all the play modes and if we were now to disrupt this status quo, it would be against the games design and potentially mess up more things than it would solve.
so what is there to do about it other than come to the forum?
some people come to seek answers, some come to seek solutions. some people seek enlightenment and some come here just shove another of their produce into your face because they can.
the duality of man i guess...
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
First define what is "fair" in a game where other players are an optional extra, where all players affect and experience the same shared galaxy.
Noting that "if i can take advantage of you, why shouldnt i" seems to also apply to those in murderboats against non-combat ships in Open....
I mean if youre doing you in pvt/solo exploring or whatever then youre not hiding, but if you are destabilizing another player or powers system for the sake of bgs or pp or certain cg scenarios, then yeah man its kinda hiding. As for instancing of course we wont all be in the same instance, its p2p and we dont pretend theres a magic star citizen "solution" to this problem. There would just continue to be multiple instances and you often would continue not to see people in the majority of locations in the galaxy. Again I am not a hardcore pvp fa off pilot I am just starting over and would 100% get waxed by some mid range pilot right now. I also dont see this as forcing pvp like some people keep harboring on. The galaxy is massive unlike wow or eso there are near infinite places to go to avoid other players even within the bubble, theres also many ways to escape or evade other players without having to engage in pvp. As someone else pointed out you would just change you strategy in the bubble or known places where you have a higher probability of seeing other players. Instead of having the extra cargo rack, you take a shield and an sco fsd and you bolt to the station when you see a hollow triangle. I think that danger needs to exist for bgs/cg/pp. I also think its a bit dramatic to refer to the term "hiding" as derogatory but ok.
i do believe i did so more than enough in my post.
im not saying it doesnt nor am i defending anyone doing that. i agree that, as you say, murder boats often fall to the choice of not playing fair.
i was asked to provide a reason for open play and i did so. i do believe i also made myself pretty vocal about defending people who dont want to combat other players, so please, be respectful and dont make me look like im advocate of something that im against of.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
What is fair about expecting others to abide by an out-of-game ruleset made up by some players?
Apart from accusing players in Solo and Private Groups of underhand behaviour when they are simply playing by the rules of the game....
So people would have to change the way they play to suit someone else ?
But this is the crux why should we have to change my playstyle because someone wants to shoot things.
Also the instancing is kinda hiding but hey hey I'm cool I'm the one in my open instance ?
I may or may not be destabilising a system knowingly or unknowingly, I may or may not care or know about BGS PP, I'm here to make money get inf or get mats .
Do we then say that if a player in open meets no opposition their efforts aren't counted ? Because well they must be hiding ?
Do we really want to go down that route ?
Proper planning and preparation will mitigate any unintended BGS work and at the end of the day it's filling buckets of inf trade bounty exploration if you lose one day you haven't done enough.
Blowing up two ships when there is a squadron working against you is a waste of time and resources . But thats only my opinion now I'm off to test out my chieftain in open . Fly safe
But this is the crux why should we have to change my playstyle because someone wants to shoot things.
Also the instancing is kinda hiding but hey hey I'm cool I'm the one in my open instance ?
I may or may not be destabilising a system knowingly or unknowingly, I may or may not care or know about BGS PP, I'm here to make money get inf or get mats .
Do we then say that if a player in open meets no opposition their efforts aren't counted ? Because well they must be hiding ?
Do we really want to go down that route ?
Proper planning and preparation will mitigate any unintended BGS work and at the end of the day it's filling buckets of inf trade bounty exploration if you lose one day you haven't done enough.
Blowing up two ships when there is a squadron working against you is a waste of time and resources . But thats only my opinion now I'm off to test out my chieftain in open . Fly safe
as ive said its a personal choice, an issue of morality and ethos.
i know that technically we agree on some things, despite you failing/refusing to acknowledge so. if you want to isolate parts of my post and ignore its reason to attack me feel free to do so. its not agains the forum rules, so why not? right? im not going to be endlessly repeating myself.
blaze your own trail. o7
No one has to change their playstyle, just disconnect the ability to influence the "main/open" bgs/pp/cg. Then continue playing in pvt and solo if you like, it just wont influence the primary narrative of the galaxy. The only changes would be to your playstyle if you then decide to play in open under these circumstances as would then need to make changes to some builds and strategies.
I get it, my argument is endlessly reduced to I just want pvp no matter how many times I state the opposite. I am a murder hobo pretending to care about fairness and I just want to ruin everyone's day.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
There is only one BGS in the live game - shared by all game modes (which are themselves simply settings on the matchmaking system) - and it's owned by all players, not just those who prefer PvP.
When the desire is obviously to force players to play in Open to affect what are currently pan-modal game features why would it be seen as anything else but an attempt to force players to play in Open to be able to affect the game, which in turn is seen as a desire to force players to engage / avoid PvP in a game where PvP is optional?
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