The Open v Solo v Groups thread
- Thread starter Ozric
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
The expected minimum / recommended system requirements were just that - expected. That the game has proved to be harder to optimise than expected means that those predicted requirements no longer perform adequately with the game as it is.
Regarding instancing between Odyssey and Horizons players, I expect that issues have been discovered relating to mixing players who are playing a PEGI-7 game and players who are playing a PEGI-16 game at all. Noting that the Customer Suport article on the subject here contains a note at the bottom of the "After Console Launch" image that states:
.... which suggests that instancing EDH and EDO players together on planet surfaces was already perceived to pose potential problems back in August 2021 when the article was published.
Some people read what they want into statements by Frontier - then are subsequently disappointed when what they thought would happen did not actually happen. Some things, e.g. PEGI ratings, may well be out of Frontier's control.
Not at all - I was well aware of the shared nature of the galaxy, as well as the lack of requirement to play among other players to experience and affect the shared galaxy, when I backed the game, having bothered to read the Kickstarter information and FAQ.
The problem arises when some players who enjoy PvP propose / demand that players who don't play in Open should be unable to affect / penalised for affecting existing mode shared game features that form part of what every player bought, i.e. part of the base game.
Thanks for helping me to prove my point!
But I suggest to stop this discussion now (at least in this thread).I was just surprised which relation it does to the solution from my suggestion. I very well aware of others proposing what you describe, but I didn't do this (at least this time)
Also as an addendum to the original proposal - what if that "PvP-on-off trigger" (need probably better name) would also be available in Solo/PG and be responsible for propagating of other modes commanders actions in a way that:
- if it is set to "off" - the game modes work as now
- if it is set to "on" - then players in Solo/PG will see commanders from other modes and can interact with their NPC-clones (functioning in a way as it is described for Onen when being set to "off") and their actions are visible to players in other modes (including Open)
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Strictly speaking, there is no "After Console Launch" - as Odyssey has been cancelled on consoles.Thanks for helping me to prove my point!
If NPCs could be set to target players in other game modes then that would be a form of interaction between players in different modes that is not possible at the moment - and one that is unlikely to be welcomed by those who don't crave combative player interaction - which is why the proposal reads to be one that seeks to undermine the modes themselves in relation to the fact that they offer players a choice as to who to play among.
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Exactly this, this has been the issue in numerous Hotel California threads for years.
O7
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
It's down to the fact that some players are not content with the fact that they, knowingly or not, bought a game where PvP is an optional extra and they can't force others to play with them.
Only if player made an explicit consent by setting the parameter to "on". This is sort of indirect interaction. To a certain degree it is how one player faction can expand to another player faction controlling system and compete for resources/influence.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
.... which seems to be a solution for those seeking competitive rather than co-operative play....
Not sure what it offers that is not already available to those who want to engage in PvP with their opposition in Open or to those who don't engage in direct opposition, rather asynchronously and indirectly through the BGS.
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How did you come to this conclusion?
If you rather stay as it is - you can leave it off.
If you prefer (like me) to see more alive universe, less repetitive NPC-interaction etc. you may opt-in to share your information and see others (in any mode).
If you play now in Open and don't want any changes - continue do so with setting set to "on".
If you are not willing direct interaction, tired of gankers in Deciat, but still want to see other players to form occasionally wings to fight NPC, mine or do anything else together - go to Open with this setting set to "off".
Look, criticizing without providing arguments, just an opinion, adds quite little to the discussion (imo). I may be sleepy already, sorry but I don't see much sense in your most recent reply.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
If one is only seeking to co-operate with other players and not compete with them then one has no need of an ability to direct NPCs to interdict those other players.
Regarding co-operation vs. competition, this is the source:
PvP means Player vs Player:
- BGS is PvP
- Power Play is PvP
Everything except exploration is PvP.
Whoever wants to play the game solo is fine. Having the influence over BGS and Power Play with wings in Private groups makes the game just about who can grind out more hours.
Elite is advertised as making your own narrative - what content is that when you barely meet anybody outside CGs and Shinrarta?!
Just make engineering finally much less of a grind by lowering the amount of mats needed for grade 5 engineering. It should be easy to engineer another build when you see that the current one was bad. Couple that with removing Private Groups and changing the blocking mechanism to block all chat and not to influence instancing => boom game will be immediately much better
Here's the issue, i like many would love an Open PVE environment with no PvP in line with your more alive universe.
Many including me would settle for an Open mode with a PvP toggle as long as default is 'OFF' ie i cant be ganked.
But the problem is PvPers moan that we in Solo/PG can effect the BGS/PP without any 'danger' other than NPCs and you cant stop me in my fortification trader.
Imagine the crying from the PvP PPer's if they could actually SEE me ferrying my 600 units of Utopian Dissidents and cant do owt about it?
There would be more salt than Goderich could produce in a year.
O7
Boom; game will shut down because only PvP enthusiasts will be left playing it.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
If BGS and Powerplay are to be considered PvP then, at best, they are asynchronous indirect PvP (in which no players are directly affected by other players) - which can be simply considered to be "playing the game" as both features are pan-modal, by design, for all players to affect regardless of game mode.
.... and exploration data can be used to affect the BGS....
Of course it's "fine" to play in Solo - that's one of the three game modes that has existed in the game design from the very beginning, i.e. when the Kickstarter launched back in 2012. Just as it is "fine" for players to affect the shared galaxy in Solo - as the galaxy is shared by all players, not just those who choose to play (some of the time at least) in Open.
Frontier can't provide players with other players as targets - it's up to each player whether they want to play among other players. If Frontier were to force players to play together in a single mode then I doubt that as many players would continue to play the game - and players can't be forced to play.
Engineering is a topic all of its own.
Private Groups have, like Solo and Open, been part of the game design from the outset - we've been told to play the game how we want to, not that we have to play the game how other players may want us to.
As the block feature has existed since before the game even launched and has only been strengthened and made easier to use over the years, I don't expect we'll see it removed.
.... just as I don't expect that we'll see Private Groups removed just to satisfy those players who can't accept that other players don't need to play with them to play the game.
Regarding the claim that "boom game will be immediately much better", one wonders who it would be better for? It would not be better for those who don't want to engage in PvP in a game sold to all where in-the-same-instance (isti)-PvP is entirely optional.
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BGS and Power Play are absolutely Player vs Player driven. In systems where there is no player activity there is pretty much a stalemate. You see the core mechanics of the game are pvp.
A properly engineered ship is impossible to gank - even small ships cannot be killed in 20 seconds (accept interdiction and highwake plotting to finish). Not to mention that you most medium ships can low wake in less time on the notorious ganker ship aka FDL.
Last thing to mention - the game is called Elite Dangerous and there is nothing dangerous playing in private groups.
A properly engineered ship is impossible to gank - even small ships cannot be killed in 20 seconds (accept interdiction and highwake plotting to finish). Not to mention that you most medium ships can low wake in less time on the notorious ganker ship aka FDL.
Last thing to mention - the game is called Elite Dangerous and there is nothing dangerous playing in private groups.
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Indeed - noting that "player driven" does not require PvP - and they have been provided for all players to engage in, not just those who like to engage in PvP directly in Open.
If one wishes to engage in the tedium that is the ganker mini-game and compromise ones ship that would otherwise be optimised for a role other than combat, certainly.
Some obviously enjoy the frisson of PvP with other players, just as it is obvious that some don't. For some players unwanted interactions with other players are a tediously predictable waste of limited game time.
It is indeed called "Elite Dangerous" - and the explanation from DBOBE is that the name relates to the rank "Dangerous".
There's no danger involved in playing a video game with an immortal space pixie as an avatar in the comfort and safety of ones gaming environment - in any game mode.
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That statement means you haven't watched Rinzler's video. Do you have an idea how fulfilling it is to escape a ganker?
Elite still has the best 6 vector flight model and although BGS are PP have many flaws no other game comes close to all those mechanics (flying and economics) in a single game. It's a fact that Elite player base is dwindling and the indecisiveness whether ED is mmo or single player game plays a big role in that.... just look at Star Citizens and the player base it attracted being build as a mmo only.
There is 0 danger from the NPCs when you have a grade 3 engineered medium ship.