The problem with the Panther Clipper

[kofeyh]

Best mix? The best mix for trading currently is in the hands of the Cutter by a fair margin, the Anaconda is notable for its high jump range but its cargo capacity is relatively poor compared to all comparable ships.

Anaconda has an impossibly light hull mass and yet very strong base integrity and the largest number of internal module bays; and this makes it an ideal candidate for a number of challenges. You said the best mix. That's a combination. It has the best mix. We know this because it is still, by far, the most targeted ship for new players, and is still best in class for any number of activities. That's the ship a great many still gun for. It's still the target.

Anaconda is the strongest multi-role (with Python a close second) because it is not rank locked; and that's an important factor to consider. It's one of the prime reasons it's the go-to ship for a great many players. Still. Four+ years on. Still the go-to large ship. Even though others can outclass it in some endeavours. Mix wise? It's impossibly good. It's mix is exceptional. So exceptional it was never repeated. That should tell you everything.

So let's not excuse the elephant in the room and yet try and argue for balance. Because that just sounds hilarious. That ship has long since sailed.

That people still even defend how good it is, yet clamour for "balance" is still, to this day, the funniest thing I ever read. "Anaconda isn't unbalanced and not the best multirole; change my mind". LUL.

--

Moving on; PC will become the new Anaconda if if does everything better, and isn't rank locked. So maybe that's the other reasons. Frontier might actually understand they could double down on the Anaconda? Plausible. They seem more cognisant of that now.

 

[kofeyh]

Can't we just leave it parked somewhere and take a shuttle or SRV to the port/dock/station for ourselves and loading/unloading cargo?

1000t capacity, if rumours are to be considered relevant. 2t in SRV. That's ~500 round trips, give or take to fill it; let's say 1-2 minutes round trip if quick? 500-1000 minutes or around 8-16 hours of solid graft. Sounds good to me? Meanwhile, how many trips is that in a type-9 or cutter or anything else?

Even if we assume something more sane for tendering cargo in/ out; it's still a very long time and any relative value that mahooosive capacity offered, is instantly lost to a type-9 or cutter that can carry ~700t any day of the week and takes at best that same 1-2 minutes to dock; fill and leave again.

Sometimes, a thing sounds awesome as hell but is about as practical as a third nostril. Interesting, but not an overly relevant improvement.

 

[RamirezKurita]

Anaconda has an impossibly light hull mass and yet very strong base integrity and the largest number of internal module bays; and this makes it an ideal candidate for a number of challenges. You said the best mix. That's a combination. It has the best mix. We know this because it is still, by far, the most targeted ship for new players, and is still best in class for any number of activities. That's the ship a great many still gun for. It's still the target.

Anaconda is the strongest multi-role (with Python a close second) because it is not rank locked; and that's an important factor to consider. It's one of the prime reasons it's the go-to ship for a great many players. Still. Four+ years on. Still the go-to large ship. Even though others can outclass it in some endeavours. Mix wise? It's impossibly good. It's mix is exceptional. So exceptional it was never repeated. That should tell you everything.

So let's not excuse the elephant in the room and yet try and argue for balance. Because that just sounds hilarious. That ship has long since sailed.

That people still even defend how good it is, yet clamour for "balance" is still, to this day, the funniest thing I ever read. "Anaconda isn't unbalanced and not the best multirole; change my mind". LUL.

--

Moving on; PC will become the new Anaconda if if does everything better, and isn't rank locked. So maybe that's the other reasons. Frontier might actually understand they could double down on the Anaconda? Plausible. They seem more cognisant of that now.

I was talking about the best mix for a given activity. Variables that have no effect on a particular activity shouldn't be considered when looking at balancing a particular activity. It doesn't matter about how good a ship is in combat if you are trading (particularly with NPCs and their complete inability to interdict properly, on top of the ease of hi-waking), the same is true with how a ship's trade capacity having zero bearing on its effectiveness as a combat ship. You can't balance a ship by creating a weakness that is trivially mitigated, you have to balance things around their strongest use. A good example of this is that you can't balance a freighter by utterly demolishing its combat performance to make up for massive jump range and cargo capacity, because combat doesn't matter to such a ship all you would create is a brokenly good trader and a useless combat ship - a ship that is unbalanced in both scenarios in different ways.

More interestingly, in terms of mix-maxing balance, this actually means that anything a ship is currently objectively bad in it can receive buffs without actually affecting the overall performance of such a ship as it doesn't actually push its optimum performance threshold. For example, if the T-9 were to receive a 30% buff to its shield capacity, then it wouldn't affect its performance as a trader in any meaningful way and so it wouldn't really make the ship any stronger; however, such a change would open up it's potential as a cost efficient SLF carrier a bit more (although more shields still wouldn't make it "good" at combat). Obviously, not all ships can feasibly or sensibly buffed to perform in all activities, but from a purely mechanical perspective it is good to bear in mind.

The Anaconda is a reasonable multirole ship, but it is actually generally poor to average at everything except jump range for fringe explorers. It lacks a good mix of stats for most things. Even mining, which relies heavily on number of slots to get the required limpets because of their very unique scaling, still has a good chunk of the threads on these forums asking "which ship is the best at mining" being answered by the Corvette. Players like the Anaconda because it is easy to obtain and very iconic, but in almost any activity you are better off using a different ship. In a world of knife-edge min-maxed competitive performance, meta reasons aren't as important as absolute performance.

I quite agree that the hull mass is a bit dumb though and makes little sense, particularly in combination with being both extremely cheap and strong. I would very much be in favour of increasing the Anaconda's hull mass and FSD size, rejigging all performance parameters to basically keep it identical to its current performance but with a larger FSD.

 

[kofeyh]

I was talking about the best mix for a given activity.

So you mean dedicated role? Because that's what "the best mix for a given activity" is. A role-dedicated ship. You can use most any ship for most any task, however. The only on-topic observation there, is that PC could easily become a replacement Anaconda. Which is only compounding the mistake. And I am quite sure that plays on Frontier's mind.

Back to the OP's comment; the problem with the Panther Clipper, is the game simply isn't ready for it yet.

 

[CMDR Redcrest]

"Obsoletizing"
Today I learned this is not a word.
Obsoleting is however.
Just my nit pick de jour there...

 

[Cosmo]

So you mean dedicated role? Because that's what "the best mix for a given activity" is. A role-dedicated ship. You can use most any ship for most any task, however. The only on-topic observation there, is that PC could easily become a replacement Anaconda. Which is only compounding the mistake. And I am quite sure that plays on Frontier's mind.

Back to the OP's comment; the problem with the Panther Clipper, is the game simply isn't ready for it yet.

Panther Clipper could work fine as a non-dockable ship. Make the limps deliver cargo to the station.

Players could make a lot of money per hour, but it would also be more difficult to pilot like a flying brick.

 

[xondk]

Seeing as how the quote you replied to was talking about the Panther LX that was shown to fit neatly on a large pad uh... Why?

For reference, if you flip a Thargoid interceptor on its side you can fit it in the Mailslot. Theres a lot of room in there. I mean Im all for capital ships but the concept for the Elite Dangerous version of the Panther doesnt seem like its going to be it.(It doesnt seem like its going to be a lot of things to be honest but bare with me for the sake of discussion XD)

As my answer suggests, in the question of why we haven't seen it yet?
Because from my view, and others that I know, which yes, by no means are 'all' players, do not see that concept that was shown as a 'real' panther clipper, and frontier knows a lot is expected from a ship in terms of size alone? add that we already have t-10 now?, so my question to you would be 'why not' have a 'huge' tier, one which is not capital class, but so big that it would basically only be able to truly land on a planet?

 

[Askorti]

As my answer suggests, in the question of why we haven't seen it yet?
Because from my view, and others that I know, which yes, by no means are 'all' players, do not see that concept that was shown as a 'real' panther clipper, and frontier knows a lot is expected from a ship in terms of size alone? add that we already have t-10 now?, so my question to you would be 'why not' have a 'huge' tier, one which is not capital class, but so big that it would basically only be able to truly land on a planet?

Why not? Because it would require a lot of work for very little benefit. It's not going to happen. In my opinion Panther, if it's going to be added, is only going to be a large pad ship, nothing more. Anything else would make its introduction too much of a hassle.

 

[FunGas]

I'm hoping it will be planetary landing only, due to it's XL pad size which would open up a whole new trading scenario.
Two shield generators? Weapons never really needed to be anything special because of this, it's a trader after all.
Just make sure, when you fill up with cargo on a high-G planet, your thrusters can get it off the ground, which was a thing in Frontier...

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

1000t capacity, if rumours are to be considered relevant. 2t in SRV. That's ~500 round trips, give or take to fill it; let's say 1-2 minutes round trip if quick? 500-1000 minutes or around 8-16 hours of solid graft. Sounds good to me? Meanwhile, how many trips is that in a type-9 or cutter or anything else?

Even if we assume something more sane for tendering cargo in/ out; it's still a very long time and any relative value that mahooosive capacity offered, is instantly lost to a type-9 or cutter that can carry ~700t any day of the week and takes at best that same 1-2 minutes to dock; fill and leave again.

Sometimes, a thing sounds awesome as hell but is about as practical as a third nostril. Interesting, but not an overly relevant improvement.

unless of course that shuttle or SRV tows a 1000t container swapping old for new in one single pass

 

[kofeyh]

Why not? Because it would require a lot of work for very little benefit. It's not going to happen. In my opinion Panther, if it's going to be added, is only going to be a large pad ship, nothing more. Anything else would make its introduction too much of a hassle.

Yep. A big ship, that even if remotely attuned to it's description, basically isn't workable at present because the structure needed, doesn't exist and if it was actually anything like it's namesake, would be so far above anything else to make everything redundant - Anaconda 2.0; the brick edition.

And Frontier are still really playing catch up a bit to try and add what they can, as is. A large pad ship is likely the outcome. And not one similar at all to it's namesake. Unless, PC is introduced as the first carrier. I imagine that'd be loved and hated in equal measure.

unless of course that shuttle or SRV tows a 1000t container swapping old for new in one single pass

Ok, I'll pay that. [up]

 

[EdzUp]

My thoughts on the ships of Elite is they will all be drip fed to us over ED's lifecycle due to if we had them all at once we would get bored of it very quickly

 

[TheGrimCorsair]

Unless, PC is introduced as the first carrier.

Still think this is a pretty likely outcome as it let's FDev keep kickin' the can down the road.

 

[Nadreck]

How about:

4 size 8 slots
1 size 7 slot
1 size 2 slot

4 Medium hardpoints (2 topside, 2 underside)
2 Small hardpoints (either side of the cockpit)

Agility of a T9, with the drift of a Cutter. Good armour but poor shields.

With only 6 internal slots and limited combat ability, it wouldn't be very versatile. Though it would be really cool if it had a Small pad on top, and could carry Small ship hangars as size 8 modules.

 

[Gryphorim]

Panther LX has already been described in in-game text as the largest ship that will fit through the starport mailslot, and greybox art has shown it will fit on a large landing pad. That probably makes it about as wide as the T9/T10 and as long and as tall as a Beluga.
If it only sports 2 class 8 and 2 class 7 internals, with a smattering of 1 or 2 of each of the smaller sizes, it'd still be the heaviest lift cargo ship in the game. However, give it 8,8,7,7,7,6,6,5,5,4,4,3,2,2,1 and it can take a class 7 shield and still haul 1000T, and it'd still conceivably all fit within the ship's volume easily.

 

[FunGas]

Come on guys, fit through a mailbox? we already have 800t class ships.

Seeking luxuries anyone?

 

[KillZoneGB]

My guess is:

Can only land at large planetary bases but due to a design fault, the engines do not generate enough thrust to take off from anything but a zero-G planet.

Bang goes the special engineering effects, ie G5 FSD with the mass manager.

Planets should not be a problem if she carries a Cargo shuttle with an SRV module. (plz FD lets us mod the hanger ships and SRV)

Anyhoo, I heard a man in the pub leaked some

rumour​

that the Panther Clipper,
when she arrives in a system, fireworks and fan fairs are triggered announcing your arrival.
(BTW haven't been in a pub in over 20yrs)

 

[Tifu]

My guess is:

Can only land at large planetary bases but due to a design fault the engines do not generate enough thrust to take off from anything but a zero G planet.

Sounds like great design to me - makes a lot of sense.
S

 

[CMDR Redcrest]

Bang goes the special engineering effects, ie G5 FSD with the mass manager.

Planets should not be a problem if she carries a Cargo shuttle with an SRV module. (plz FD lets us mod the hanger ships and SRV)

Anyhoo, I heard a man in the pub leaked some

rumour​

that the Panther Clipper,
when she arrives in a system, fireworks and fan fairs are triggered announcing your arrival.
(BTW haven't been in a pub in over 20yrs)

My condolences with regard to that last sentence.

 

[tarragon]

I bet, Panther Clipper will be the name of the upcoming carrier, ie guild ship.