Great podcast the other day @Allen Stroud, I agree with everything brought up, call it semantics or irony, but at 02:19:44 we hear the team ask the question (verbatim) - ‘Does anyone think that, FD should actually put Raxxla in game?’ - some responded no, Allen provides his ingenious player run DW idea across again.

I take it this inferred the Lave Radio team believes it’s ‘not’ in game?

We know historically M Brookes and D Braben said it was, but what would inform the Lave team to have such an opinion that Raxxla was not currently in game?

But yes a great show as always. I do think it’s necessary to have clear instructions for a product, either way I prefer ‘no instructions’ because then it’s really interesting, but FD did drop some clues indicating certain content was in game, however since we know FD removed the DW missions, a potential story (as confirmed by FD) linked we think to Raxxla, that leaves the game open to contradiction, especially when FD never told us what they did. Generating dead ends.

I presume the codex is FD’s method of communicating this indirectly, but if they changed something - did they actually replace it with something else?

Was the original DW just s series of storylines taking you into another narrative wall, as is FD modus operandi, or did it lead to an actual objective, or is that just a projection of the community!

My goal is simply to assess if it’s narratively locked or not, simply because if so there truly is no reason to look, because you have to wait for FD to unlock it, but you also run the danger of FD altering the narrative because you jumped several chapters otherwise it’s too much like tipping at windmills.
 
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Great podcast the other day @Allen Stroud, I agree with everything brought up, call it semantics or irony, but at 02:19:44 we hear the team ask the question (verbatim) - ‘Does anyone think that, FD should actually put Raxxla in game?’ - some responded no, Allen provides his ingenious player run DW idea across again.

I take it this inferred the Lave Radio team believes it’s ‘not’ in game?

We know historically M Brookes and D Braben said it was, but what would inform the Lave team to have such an opinion that Raxxla was not currently in game?
Nothing informs the team that Raxxla is not in game. Ben just framed the question as he framed it. There's no hidden knowledge behind the way the question was phrased. I think John and Alec were commenting from the perspective of being long time players and it not being revealed.
 
Not really. We're trying to find significant correlation between a large number of different "clues" each of which could have different meanings - but presumably only one configuration is correct.

Just like doing real history research, you don't find one document and build a thesis around it, you look for corroboration, and also things that dont fit, as you try different arrangements of ideas and facts to build something that's a "best fit" given what you have to work with.

Highlighting specific things here to each other is a way of doing just that, it's saying, "hey there's a few things here that seem significant, let's investigate".

If you disagree that something is relevant, or want to suggest new ideas, that's what it's all about :)
Unfortunately, I think you will find that all installation names are procedural. So there can be no significance in any of them - they are just mechanically picked from a set of three dictionaries based on the system ID, and their position.

Add that to the fact that they were a late addition to the game, certainly post dating the origin of the 'its in the milky way' comments by some years, and I think you are on very shaky ground.

The risk is one of drawing connections that are irrelevant and multiplying the possibilities, leading to numerous rabbit holes. After so many years of multiplying hypotheses, whats needed is some reductionist thinking to narrow the possibilities.
 
Yes, but presumably this was done from an account where you have are least one Elite. The test would do realistic view on an account with no Elite ranks and see if it shows up.
Nope sorry, I used my PS4 account which has no progression on any career, no permit unlocks nor engineering, it’s pure noob vanilla account I used for testing base mechanisms. No elite status.
 
Unfortunately, I think you will find that all installation names are procedural. So there can be no significance in any of them - they are just mechanically picked from a set of three dictionaries based on the system ID, and their position.
That's interesting info, but (unless you work at Fdev and are stealth-posting :)), I don't believe you can know that for sure. I accept that it's likely to be unimportant though, that's basically why I haven't mentioned it since that original post a few days back since.... it's not really important...

Add that to the fact that they were a late addition to the game, certainly post dating the origin of the 'its in the milky way' comments by some years, and I think you are on very shaky ground.

Saying that a "late addition to the game" can't relate to Raxxla is pretty 'shaky ground' :) the fact is we just really don't know.

The risk is one of drawing connections that are irrelevant and multiplying the possibilities, leading to numerous rabbit holes. After so many years of multiplying hypotheses, whats needed is some reductionist thinking to narrow the possibilities.

Totally agree. Point me towards "relevant" stuff and I'll be super happy!

I feel like part of the issue that's always plagued the Raxxla hunt is deciding what's relevant in the first place, if you've got some new ideas I'm all ears... or eyes I guess :) A way to discern the relevant clues from irrelevant clues is very much needed.

From what I know the only definite 100% Raxxla-content that's ever existed in the game is what's in that single Codex page and the Dark Wheel codex page. Everything prior to that was just stuff that might be Raxxla related, if you squint and believe hard enough :)

It's an assumption even that they're clues that can be followed/solved. We know that hundreds of people have eliminated massive amounts of 'older' stuff in the game (listening posts, acquiring permit locks, examining Soontil, exploring systems in any way related to anything Holdstock wrote about, picking apart everything MB said or did, etc.etc.) so really that only leaves newer stuff in the game to examine with similar rigour.

In my flawed opinion dismissing something because it seems irrelevant is a mistake - personally I ignored Listening Posts when they first popped up years ago because I assumed they were a thing I'd just not seen before, turns out they were new and they were clues to cool new content!

I reckon that examining everything weird can't be bad, it usually becomes clear pretty quick if it's actually "a thing" or not.
 
Nope sorry, I used my PS4 account which has no progression on any career, no permit unlocks nor engineering, it’s pure noob vanilla account I used for testing base mechanisms. No elite status.
So, perhaps the Pilot's Federation is more transparent than otherwise acknowledged. That is certainly interesting given the language in the beacon regarding Shinrarta Dezra/Founder's World being a closely guarded secret. I now am unsure how to interpret that. I have to say that is a bit unexpected.
 
So, perhaps the Pilot's Federation is more transparent than otherwise acknowledged. That is certainly interesting given the language in the beacon regarding Shinrarta Dezra/Founder's World being a closely guarded secret. I now am unsure how to interpret that. I have to say that is a bit unexpected.
Disclaimer: This is a "lore read" interpretation, therefore likely to be totally wrong.

Prior to FSD emerging in the 3290's the most-used FTL system was the type 2b. We don't really know how it worked in Elite Dangerous' lore afaik, but it's essentially the hyperdrives from FFE and FE2, as I'm sure you know :)

Given that, maybe the idea of 'hiding' Shinrarta stems from the pre-FSD era. Whatever systems they used to remove it from the navmaps wouldn't work, or it was included in Galmap by some nefarious organisation trying to break the PF's monopoly when the new navigation systems were created - all they could do was add a software permit lock.

FSD totally changed everything, that's referenced in many places, it caused the need for the London Treaty, for example, and it spurred the largest exploration explosion and fastest expansion of human space in history.

Maybe (for whatever reason) the PF either couldn't or chose not to remain hidden in light of the new FTL tech. It's possible to use the same explanation if you believe the Dark Wheel faction originating from there is the real Dark Wheel - maybe hiding stuff from civilians equipped with FSD is significantly harder than they thought, so they just recruited instead and took advantage of the membership to get more stuff done.

This could also easily tie into the Permit Locks. They weren't necessary before since it was incredibly unlikely anyone could reach those places pre-FSD, and those that did would take weeks/months/years to do so using 2b - therefore reporting back what they found was equally hard - much like the Azimuth expedition discovered recently, they had to leave comms beacons behind them which were sabotaged. -although I believe the Proteus wreck is listed as using Quirium drives (might be misremembering). You could easily headcannon that as the reason why some areas weren't permit locked early in 3300 that then became permit locked shortly afterwards - civilians armed with FSD needed containing somehow!

Note: I've always said that I wonder what happened to the 2b starships? Lore says they were essentially made obsolete and any ships that couldn't be given FSD was discontinued and scrapped, but even today (2022) people have collections of 'obsolete' stuff they still use - and 20 years isn't that old even if there's newer stuff that's better. Vintage cars are a decent comparison. A 2b ship only needs Hydrogen fuel to run the hyperdrive, and the tech was only made obsolete 10-20 years ago so there's going to be tons of engineers that still know how to work them. If you had one... you could get past the permit locks easily... If you had, say, an Anaconda that's big enough to fit BOTH a FSD and a 2b... you'd be able to get anywhere in the galaxy.

Maybe FSD was as much a control method as it was a liberating force?
 
@ Louis Calvert

And LP could be new clues to old content! Or at least some of them...

You are correct that we just dont know what is relevant. But Yelboc is also correct in that we have had years of multiplying possibilities. We just need to find Raxxla, then we’ll know what “clues” were valid (if any) and which were red herrings! Until then it’s all an open book (not Astrophel!)😁
 
FSD technology is a horribly messy affair in so far as the lore goes. One question to get people thinking:

If Lave is settled by Deep Space Colonial Cruisers Hershel and Oberon per the "History of Lave" in 2412 does that not imply either that Quirium had been used prior or there was another fuel type possibly? I mean it is hard to colonize a system with no fuel.

Note: Per "Galactic News: Hyperspace" the Faraway system comes 400 or so years after Lave is settled in the 2800s. Pilots' Federation is founded the same century (believe that is 2805).
 
I think I've said, the last document I wrote explained the progression between 2b drives and Stardreamer to current drives.

It was sent to Michael Brookes. I'm not sure it went much further. I could try and resend it to Frontier? That might help reconcile the analysis.
I would absolutely love to know more about that and I imagine there's a ton of people would too! I've no idea if Fdev would feel the same lol.

In terms of the "quest for Raxxla" though, I think info on the early history of space-travel and early FTL would actually be some of the most useful information we could get hold of.

Hell, I'd pay full-game price for an expansion where you got to uncover archaeological secrets of ancient human spaceflight in dusty crash sites, pulling data from ancient data cores and ancient abandoned settlements and stations. After all, early FTL/exploration days were as far away from 3300 as we are from the early middle ages, and I do love me some archeological diggin' :) It's actually weird that there isn't more old stuff kicking around.

Time Team in Spaaaaaacccceeeeee!
 
I answered a distress call (or maybe it was a combat aftermath?) the other day. Got a mission to collect a black box, which would be automatically decrypted and the contents sent to the mission giver. They were, and then 6 local mafia ships appeared and tried to kill me. Seems like a good basis for something significant to happen, but it didn't 🧐
 
That's interesting info, but (unless you work at Fdev and are stealth-posting :)), I don't believe you can know that for sure. I accept that it's likely to be unimportant though, that's basically why I haven't mentioned it since that original post a few days back since.... it's not really important...
OK addressing the installation names: How do we know its a simple procedural system? We don't for sure but there are strong indicators.

(1) The words show up repeatadly showing that they are selected from finite dictionaries. Each of the three names are chosen from seperate dictionaries to make them flow as if they were real.

(2) There are duplicate names - making a hashing system that can cover thousands of installations, but with a finite set of names is tough and its entirely possible that names will get used more than once. So searching the database on EDDB we find many duplicates. Here's one example:

1668020233487.png


So here there are four installation with the same name. In total there are 4849 duplicates currently in the EDDB data.

This is the strongest evidence that naming of installations is entirely procedural.

So, in short - no, I don't know that its irrelevant, but I'm certain enough to reject the names of installation based on my observation of the behaviour of the game. I could be wrong, but I have to work on some basis or else the haystack is the size of a major continent..
 
Loving the reference to the coin, had seen this previously but discarded it out of complacency. The for in a circle is now I think of it in this context more likely to relate directly to the Omphalos. It's a description that pops up regularly and as you clearly pointed out - referenced by the coin. That could be very helpful...
Another abstract reinterpretation of the Raxxla logo:

Central dot and circle = Omphalos,
The 3 encircling lines = a tripod, of the Oracle…the rest erm…
 
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