I doubt that FD have landed on a definite explanation for these mechanics yet. I think they want to see how the game develops, before they put anything in the codex.

My point entirely. Much of what made it to game may not have an applicable real life explanation, and probably won’t make sense. It is a game after all, and people seem overly expectant that ‘everything’ makes logical sense in game - it evidently does not, for various reasons, but likely because FD just made it up so it could work…

Eg in the start if you ran out of fuel in deep space, a random text based cut scene occurred that said a passing NPC gave you a bit of fuel… you never saw the ship, it was just fade to black.

Technically you logically ought to have lost 30 mins to a few days (given your ships pressurised so should have lots of oxygen). But we never went on about the evident time travel aspect going on in that situation…namely that several hours got pruned!
 
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Brilliant. I have been looking for that story. Haven't read it in about 30 years🧓. I did not remember the name Links Hammer.

I'm also missing:
  1. Genuine Thargoid by Moira Sheehan
  2. Ruined Blood by Jude Jones
  3. Invisible Enemy by Kathy Braben
  4. Lucifer Falling by Julian Flood
If you have them by any chance, please post them.

One might assume that the techniques of DNA synthesis have in fact improved, by 3300 and our Commander is rebuilt from the ground up, every time we die.
This story has the best explanation of why we have magic escape pods. Something we didn't have in the old games.

Julian Flood has his short stories published on Amazon - i found versions of Lucifer falling and Children of a Greater God there… I say versions because it looks like he kept the story the same but changed the location - well atleast in the case of Children… dont know about Lucifer. Children of a greater god takes place on a planet called Dub in his short story - he expands it into a larger story -making the bit used in elite - the first chapter. Lucifer falling is a short story about diving to earth as a sport…. Oh and interesting coincidence with name Julian and character of Julia in MBs book…. Oh also Hammer in JFs book is always getting resurrected…
 
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My point entirely. Much of what made it to game may not have an applicable real life explanation, and probably won’t make sense. It is a game after all, and people seem overly expectant that ‘everything’ makes logical sense in game - it evident does not, for various reasons, but likely because FD just made it up so it could work…

Eg in the start if you ran out of fuel in deep space, a random text based cut scene occurred that said a passing NPC gave you a bit of fuel…
Counterpoint: David Braben explicitly called this "dystopian, hard science ficition". That means there is scientific basis for things being the way they are in the game.

"Obviously the previous games have been big influences, but I've been a science fiction fan for a very long time and I've always liked the harder end of science fiction where there's a lot more justification behind the way things happen."
-David Braben

See: https://elite-dangerous.fandom.com/wiki/Elite_Universe


Also, a pertinent reminder from the in-game credits. Frontier Developments considers this the 4th game of the Elite series.

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Counterpoint: David Braben explicitly called this "dystopian, hard science ficition". That means there is scientific basis for things being the way they are in the game.



See: https://elite-dangerous.fandom.com/wiki/Elite_Universe


Also, a pertinent reminder from the in-game credits. Frontier Developments considers this the 4th game of the Elite series.

View attachment 395114

True but David may have said ‘a lot of things’ that never were realised, he also made a fare few direct concrete affirmations that simply never occurred, so apologies if I don’t classify such statements as wholly reliable.

In counterpoint although David talked about the game being ‘based’ upon ‘some’ level of scientific accuracy both he and Michael did likewise admit some aspects were not and of course some were ‘just made up’ for instance to enable us to travel through space - ergo not scientifically accurate, The developers use a method of communication which does not ascribe wholly one stratagem, they do admit ‘it’s just a game’ - some of it simply is nonsense!

Ultimately we need to be careful about how we project our own perceptions with this project, which ultimately and self evidently is fiction.

Brookes justifies the inclusion of FTL travel. “It’s what David [Braben] calls ‘The Big Lie’. We’ve got the whole galaxy in there – and as Douglas Adams said, ‘space is pretty big’. So we had to make sure players could navigate in something resembling real time.


Braben explains that even Elite Dangerous is built on scientific fact, with a one-to-one recreation of the galaxy with “all 400 billion systems” included. Though, as Watts tells us, the gameplay is of course predicated on “one big lie” – that being the faster-than-light travel that underpins everything you do.

The simulation’s mass model was accurate enough to roughly predict the placement and size of planets which hadn’t yet been discovered, Braben explains. Though of course hard scientific fact rarely makes an enthralling game on its own.

“There’s truth and believability and then we build a game on it but it immerses people a lot more because they can latch onto reality. And that’s why science fiction is such an amazing genre because you can get transported to a totally different world. Some of it feels real and that’s how you get this immersion,” Watts enthuses.’


So in context yes ‘some’ elements are ‘based’ or even established upon real science, ‘but’ even the developers admit that it’s not ‘wholly’ 100% accurate and is a ‘predictive model’ and a ‘fiction’. There is a distinction here which is being lost, and that in part is due to FD clever use of word play, they don’t admit everything and allow enough of a vacuum in the conversation for the audience to fill in the blanks…
 
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During my years exploring the space I would often visit Vitto Orbital in Metztli, and as a guest of the native Tang Clan drink wine and read Li Bai until the early hours of the morning.
Speak of the Blessed Islands men from the Ocean’s brim.
Truth is hid in their endless billows and mist-wreaths dim.
Tell of the T’ien-mu Mountain men in the land of Yore,
Seen there, when rainbows scatter, and clouds conceal no more!
Reaching up to the zenith, the skyline it seems to fill,
Huge like the Sacred Mountains piled over Ch’ihch’eng Hill.
T’ien-t’ai Mountain is fifty myriads of feet in height,
Crushing, about to fall, soaring in awful might!
Seeing, I longed to dream of Wu and the land of Yore:
Flew one night on a moonbeam over the Mirror’s shore.
Moon, that reflected my shadow dark on the lake below,
Carried me thence to Yen-ch’i, land that the spirits know.
Place where the ancient Hsieh dwelt is yet to be seen.
Gibbons howl by the water dimpling so purely green.
Bound on my feet the clogs were used by Hsieh of old,
Mounting the dun clouds ladder, halfway up I behold
Sea and Sun; and I hear mystic carols in Space.
Crags and hollows commingled, hard is the road to trace.
Flower-drugged, I lean on a rock. Lo! Night her shadow flings!
Bears’ roars and dragons’ bellowings boom over rocks and springs!
Startled, how forests quake on ridge over ridge of crags!
Black are the sombre clouds, waiting the rain to pour.
Placid the water still; above it the mist wraith lags.
Flash! and the hollow hills blasting the lightning tore.
Crash! and the stone gates burst of the vaulted sky in twain.
Boundless those azure spaces; end is there none in view.
Sunlight and moonbeams commingle golden and silver hue.
Clad in rainbows, and mounted on coursers of rapid wind,
Lords of the clouds come trooping; and trooping more behind.
Tiger roar of the drums, psalteries’ oriole note.
Orderly mixing disorder, crowding the genii float.
Suddenly feared my soul; twanging my spirit leapt.
Startled and trembling sprang I. Sorely I sighed and wept,
Feeling that I was awake; that it was but a dream now past.
Gone all those roseate hues the mist-wreaths had mingled last!
Thus are the joys of life! for all things pass away.
Streamlike flowing a-down, old Time will never stay.
Now, as I bid you farewell, when will you turn again,
Over the verdant mountains loosing the White Deer’s rein?
Wishing to go, we ride it seeking the famous hills….
Eyes must I bow, and body bending, submit to serve
Rich and powerful below, where never I may deserve
Happy a thought to think, or carelessly laugh at ills?
 
True but David said ‘a lot of things’ that never were realised, he also made a fare few direct concrete affirmations that simply never occurred, so apologies if I don’t classify such statements as wholly reliable. In counterpoint Michael also said in a similar context (not a quote but it’s online somewhere) regards supercruise and warp, some of that is essentially just ‘made up’ to enable us to travel through space - ergo not scientifically accurate.
Supercruise - Alcubierre Drive
System jump or "high waking" - wormhole
Fleet Carrier jump - wormhole
Thargoid jumps - wormhole
Guardian "through-space" drives - wormhole

Notably, from first game manual, the phrase "Holodirect & ThroughSpace GravDistort communications system" makes an appearance.
1718547664759.png

This is hard science fiction, there will be a scientific basis for almost everything.

To quote the Elite Universe entry cited earlier:
The timeline of the Elite Universe is a continuation of real life modern history. The Elite Dangerous Timeline takes place 1286 years in the future and moves at the same pace as real-life.

There's an emphasis on scientific accuracy which is sometimes subordinate to the gameplay experience. The setting is a full scale depiction of the Milky Way. It has a lot of hard science to, for the first time in gaming history, compose a very consistent model of the Milky Way galaxy and it's rich enough to plot the night sky.[5]

Technologically, what sets the Elite Universe apart is the lack of ‘magical’ anti-gravity or gravity generators. Ships have no anti-gravity, nor do outposts or stations. To move around requires pushing/pulling yourself, use thrusters or electromagnetic boots. Artificial gravity is created by centrifugal force from the rotation of (for example) a large space station.

For the record: Pax Inter Astra is going to Temple region to get the theoretical basis of how this works established. We have the components. We can say with relatively high confidence that Raxxla was built by one or more species and then "fixed" by humanity at Earth. We know what does the lensing of the signals and have multiple lines of evidence to back this up from multiple systems including Sol and California Sector BV-Y c7. We have the power sources of the network both alien and human (some of them even biological).

We are getting closer to full activation...

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You honestly still don't believe this game is exactly as they said it was: hard science mixed mythology and science fiction in all its' glory?
 
I think anything can be explained in game, if you so desire to.

My point is, not ‘everything can be’ so the issue is where to expend one’s energy if there isn’t actually anything to resolve?

FD confirmed they inject narrative, eg a Cmdr could theoretically fly through a system scan everything and move on. Two weeks later FD inject a Thargoid base or something?

FD affirmed they have to be really careful not to cause such an aspect; but it establishes the reality ‘content’ and by that logic ‘information’ and ‘context’ were absent prior to that point and as such change by their will - they are essentially the dungeon master, we are not in control.

FD changes things.

Granted FD might have a huge and very well thought out reality, but most of it - we simply don’t see. We could guess but who is to say it’s correct, and likewise FD could well be absorbing concepts and adapting…changing concepts…

I don’t think a ‘granular’ viewpoint will resolve anything. We’ve seen theories postulating many brilliant concepts but wholly they were most all projections, based upon the flimsiest of information- mine own included, but I think we give FD far too much credit.

Like comets, they exist in game, but also they don’t. They obviously help some aspect of the Stella forge, but FD can’t / won’t insert them, probably because the engine can’t build bodies below a certain dimension… so we have magic ‘ghost’ bodies… please don’t get us started about the nonsense behind telepresence- these are all invisible ‘concessions’ and a fictional system of reality to enable the logic of the game to persist.

Please let us recall how Allen Stroud very clearly established how and why some lore was certainly not cannon, and yet some Cmdrs still persist to ignore that insight.

I hope there is such depth. I really do, it gives many Cmdrs some levels of pleasure to engage with, this is after all a game, blaze your own trails, but sometimes we must stop and assess what is / isn’t a practical application of energy.

Case in point the DW missions… FD NEVER admitted these were removed. They ALLOWED customers to engage actions which had ZERO applications in game…. Because as they admitted (granted via an interrogation via customer support) to have REMOVED said content…to have in their word paused that story… the data still persisted historically but had no resolution, FD paused it… granted whatever built fir that probably is still in game, and maybe we can hypothetically identify this, but we should not be so arrogant to state our projections are concrete, in everything there exists a level of probability. I’m fine for Cmdrs to say stars exist in game which are made of diamond, but only if that statement is followed by or is presented with ‘maybe’ - ‘possibly’ - ‘feel’?

If that probability is closer to certain then please explain, but be expectant that even if a theory is 87% probably certain, it still might not be ;) it’s a projection based upon the information available and still has to be reviewed with scepticism.

You cannot trust data on its own merits. This is a fictional universe and it is mailable.
 
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Case in point the DW missions… FD NEVER admitted these were removed. They ALLOWED customers to engage actions which had ZERO applications in game…. Because as they admitted (granted via an interrogation via customer support) to have REMOVED said content…to have in their word paused that story…
Anyone who engaged with The Dark Wheel in Shinrarta Dezhra when they were told repeatedly that they were a sham should be ashamed. It wasn't like the books, the game, and the codex (added later) didn't make it abundantly clear that were a complete and utter sham. That isn't on FDev. That's on the CMDRs. It is on the CMDRs for not taking this whole thing as a series when there clear evidence of continuity and the credits themselves (and the Guiness Book of World Records says as much). Don't blame FDev. The CMDRs themselves put themselves into this mess on their own. We had some CMDRs loudly proclaiming this couldn't even be the same universe. The CMDRs didn't investigate, they blindly believed whatever they were told when the series started in system with a leader that was known propagandist. That isn't on FDev. The CMDRs were openly informed about misinformation and ran with it anyways.

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Source:
https://x.com/gwr/status/611537566299463681?lang=en
 
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Well…. The missions did not necessarily advocate the faction was legitimate, some of the missions were actually from the PF to investigate the DW…so the implication was there from the outset, so that’s a moot point.

Irrespective those missions were promoted by being included (at that time) and potentially hidden by a (broken mechanism) as a series of actions to undertake, asking players to engage…irrespective of the outcome with unique content directly likened to Raxxla.

The point was - FD did not communicate they changed this, they did not officially confirm those missions were actually removed!

By not doing so they advocate such actions or mechanisms persist. Irrespective its poor communication on their part, and evidence they change things and bend the rules to suit their objectives, they are the dungeon master, if they said Raxxla now is a made out of solid gold and is in the shape of a 100 foot long human leg, that’s evidently their prerogative, we don’t control the story, the science does not matter.

The lore and what is in game ‘might’ but nothing is certain.
 
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Some of those missions were by Pilots Federation apparently actively against the Dark Wheel faction! Which is interesting since TDW is a faction within PF (according to a TB somewhere, probably in Shinrarta-remember the TB in SD originally had around 5 different spellings for PF!). Which made me think that storyline was based on internecine conflict within PF, & I suspect lore will eventually be revealed that one PF faction (probably the one that controls cartography data and implements the sector permit locks!) is controlled by Guardian AI/descendents. But I suspect FD decided that storyline was all too complex and decided to concentrate on Thargoid War pew pew....
 
Another interesting find that potentially may be worthwhile (though we'd need to anchor it better). The jewel on the brow from the Alleged Toast of TDW may have been hinted at in Drew Wagar's "Reclamation":

1000016606.jpg
 
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Another interesting find that potentially may be worthwhile (though we'd need to anchor it better. The jewel on the brow from the Alleged Toast of TDW may have been hinted at in Drew Wagar's "Reclamation":

View attachment 395207

Prism does fit things well - funny i was just poking around there recently again because of similar thoughts…

I forgot about the Bella Princepessa - does make a good princess astrophel.

The jewel named planet names…

Even the references to the family of Autoculus (wolves) and Odysseus (wanderer) .. and Anteclea …. Parents grief

But also Daedalion … and his Daughter Chion - another form of Parents grief

Most interesting to me is that Daedalion is the son of Phosphorus …. Lucipher
 
Which made me think that storyline was based on internecine conflict within PF, & I suspect lore will eventually be revealed that one PF faction (probably the one that controls cartography data and implements the sector permit locks!) is controlled by Guardian AI/descendents.
May I suggest doing some light reading on Augustus Brenquith. If you want to know where Pilot's Federation got the source of its data to launch Omphalos Infotech Universal Cartographics look no further than Jaques and Augustus Brenquith (Brenquith is mentioned in "...All that Glisters"). There are reasons the Big Three of the BigSix of corporations for the Club conspiracy is Saud Kruger, The Sirius Corporation, and The Achilles Corporation.

Jaques' "glistering legacy"
Brenquith's "glistening legacy"

That was absolutely intentional.

Also, it is no mistake that Jaques is old enough to have founded Pilots' Federation, setup shop in Shinrarta Dezhra, built the first Coriolis, built a personal army out of Lave, and been the first Elite Commander. See the whole faked death of Peter Jameson in Riedquat followed curiously by Facece containing Peter's Wreck (planet) and Peter's Base (first Coriolis built by Jaques).

At this point, the only real outstanding question is whether Jaques is the Guardian Military Construct or the Civilian Construct?

Pray this isn't the Civilian Construct because the Federal vs Imperial conflict has all the signs of a continuation of Guardian Traditionalists vs Progressives (up to and including orbital bombardments). Humanity is fighting a proxy war for another species. I am also not sold on the fact that Guardians and Thargoids are well and truly separate species. If they aren't, this conflict is millions of years old. The Club conspiracy may well be progressive branch and The Dark Wheel the traditional branch. It would explain a whole lot.
 
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Going back to the thargoid map, I wanted to see if I could get it to show on my spec app I have.

I was plesantly surprised seeing a second half of the map.

below is the screen grab.

Note - I ripped the audio from "Thargoid map - Elite Dangerous" vid on youtube and literally had my phone by the speaker.

The top (left side) is cut off a bit on my device but you can see it has almost a mirror image below (right) that lines up with the images.

I can't play with it on the app as it only does a live image.

Let me know if you have an audio feed that I can test on this.
 

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Some of those missions were by Pilots Federation apparently actively against the Dark Wheel faction! Which is interesting since TDW is a faction within PF (according to a TB somewhere, probably in Shinrarta-remember the TB in SD originally had around 5 different spellings for PF!). Which made me think that storyline was based on internecine conflict within PF, & I suspect lore will eventually be revealed that one PF faction (probably the one that controls cartography data and implements the sector permit locks!) is controlled by Guardian AI/descendents. But I suspect FD decided that storyline was all too complex and decided to concentrate on Thargoid War pew pew....
It’s just game mechanics. They are both factions in the same system. The game just takes random factions as mission giver and target as long as there is influence conflict. For special missions, like E/F the available giver factions are limited.
 
It’s just game mechanics. They are both factions in the same system. The game just takes random factions as mission giver and target as long as there is influence conflict. For special missions, like E/F the available giver factions are limited.
I think it went deeper than that. There were definitely 5 different original spellings (recently corrected) of PF in the SD tourist beacons (I posted a few times on that), it was possible (I did it) to get Allied with at least two of those factions (and I think it was @davanix who Allied to a third)- one by completing normal missions in SD and another by Thargoid scout bashing/Rescueing passengers from damaged stations. That fitted with the hypothesis that one of those factions was the "real" TDW and that fitted with a "TDW storyline", which may (or may not) have led to a disused and hidden space station...but I suspect that whole gameplay was deemed too obscure and FD decided to concentrate on solely the Thargoid War storyline. In response to @ Rochester's queries FD did eventually say they had "paused" something, so I guess it is possible that storyline might be resurrected at a later date (possibly after the Thargoids have been defeated).

P.S.
Have changed my signature avatar- it's an alien dragon!! 😁
 
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I can only speculate that it’s possible there could have existed various unknown aspects, which are no longer active.

I can attest to two at best. The DW missions were removed; the Trinkets were linked and that story was paused.

We can be relatively certain then that FD do change direction and do amend the narrative to suit themselves or pause storylines outright.

This was the basis of my initial research, as I wanted to identify areas where energy was not needed for investment.

Ultimately I believe the Codex is the key, any ‘historical’ information simply adds weight or context. I honestly believe if Raxxla is in game, then FD turned off all mechanisms engineered to finding it, and that it (and equally likely) and the DW station are in game, but one can only find them by stumbling over them.

The Codex I speculate might be then a redux of this original concept and retelling of the story albeit in a truncated format, I think they are telling us where to go certainly, but we need eyes to see to understand the destination.
 
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