I'm not sure how accurate this is (I don't yet have the EERPG, but my understanding is that information contained in it is Lore, as it counts as one of the novels: https://daftworks.co.uk/eliterpg/index.php/Landing_Pad).
While researching something else I came across this:
"Between the 2810's and 2840's, GalCop documents a significant number of ship disappearances in its space and near the Pleiades Nebula. Investigations find no evidence of foul-play, but the disappearances and other strange phenomena continue intermittently, stoking anxiety among pilots." Source is reported as the EERPG manual.
Didn't Salome say that Raxxla was discovered around 2814 or something?
The above info comes from the same source as the info that Drew had, the writers guide for the novels. while I realise it's a big galaxy and just because something happens in one place in the 2810's it doesn't mean anything else happens there - however, thought it was interesting to pass on since it's the only thing I've found that has that sort of date in there.
It's interesting for a few reasons - Galcop space is basically the opposite end of the bubble to the Pleiades - so that's an area of space as large as our current extended bubble, way back in 2800.
It also implies that (a "significant number" of) people were exploring the Pleiades in the 2800's as Thatchinho has been saying for a while. This is the only reference I've found so far in Lore that explicitly states exploring wayyyyy outside the bubble as early as this.
I'm more of a mind to think that the "Dark Wheel" from Premonition think that they are the real Dark Wheel.
The organization has been around for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. Spread out across countless light-years. We know that at least one other sect broke away from The Dark Wheel ... The Circle of Independent Elite Pilots. I can imagine that there are numerous groups that claim to be the true descendants of The Dark Wheel. Look at Christianity as an example. At the macro level you have the Catholics, Orthodox and the Protestants. Among the Protestants you have Lutherans, Presbyterians, Episcopalians and Baptists. Throw the Restorationist movements into the mix (Church of Christ, Mormons, Seventh-Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.) All of whom claim that their tradition represents "true Christianity".
The Dark Wheel of Shinrarta Dhezra are probably one of many expressions of the original Dark Wheel that litter themselves across the galaxy.
I'm not sure how accurate this is (I don't yet have the EERPG, but my understanding is that information contained in it is Lore, as it counts as one of the novels: https://daftworks.co.uk/eliterpg/index.php/Landing_Pad).
While researching something else I came across this:
"Between the 2810's and 2840's, GalCop documents a significant number of ship disappearances in its space and near the Pleiades Nebula. Investigations find no evidence of foul-play, but the disappearances and other strange phenomena continue intermittently, stoking anxiety among pilots." Source is reported as the EERPG manual.
Didn't Salome say that Raxxla was discovered around 2814 or something?
The above info comes from the same source as the info that Drew had, the writers guide for the novels. while I realise it's a big galaxy and just because something happens in one place in the 2810's it doesn't mean anything else happens there - however, thought it was interesting to pass on since it's the only thing I've found that has that sort of date in there.
It's interesting for a few reasons - Galcop space is basically the opposite end of the bubble to the Pleiades - so that's an area of space as large as our current extended bubble, way back in 2800.
It also implies that (a "significant number" of) people were exploring the Pleiades in the 2800's as Thatchinho has been saying for a while. This is the only reference I've found so far in Lore that explicitly states exploring wayyyyy outside the bubble as early as this.
This may be something to go on. The Pleiades is pretty close to COL 70, Horsehead, Bernard's Loop, etc. which includes a large number of permit locked systems. We've often speculated over the possibility of Raxxla being permit locked. Horsehead and Bernard's loop, as nebulae, would go a long way toward obfuscating something in the "outer loop" of the Orion Spur.
Hmm but aren't permits issued by the Pilots Federation?
I mean the proper bureaucratic pilots Fed, not the "shadowy super-elite who control Raxxla", so even if the RaxElite could make the Pilots Fed issue a permit, it's marking that system as something special. Presumably (in lore) there must be people in the Pilots Fed who can visit permit locked systems, just not us lowly normal CMDR Elites.
It seems a bit counter-intuitive of the RaxElite, assuming they exist and do not exert absolute control over the entire Pilots Fed, to do that.
I'd see it as the CIA telling the USA government to mark Area 51 as off-limits. Ok you restrict people generally going there, but it's existence leaks out, and there must be personal being involved in running it who aren't CIA specially.
Better to hide something you really want hidden by not getting bureaucrats involved.
This may be something to go on. The Pleiades is pretty close to COL 70, Horsehead, Bernard's Loop, etc. which includes a large number of permit locked systems. We've often speculated over the possibility of Raxxla being permit locked. Horsehead and Bernard's loop, as nebulae, would go a long way toward obfuscating something in the "outer loop" of the Orion Spur.
Interesting. And Much like pilots today headed to obvious stellar phenomena I expect the same has always been true. It might be worth considering well known stars and things in the local area - even if Raxxla isn't located in one of those systems it's possible it was found while heading to something 'a little bit obvious'.
As you say, something like Barnard's Loop is almost literally a big bullseye that's maybe not too far from human space to reach even in the 2800s, and I can well imagine that it would have been one of the things the earliest explorers wanted to see up close.
In-Game reference to how far is far prior to FSD travel
FINALLY I've discovered an in-game Lore reference to hyperdrive travel in the past and what was considered "far" by long-range explorers - and it's dated! This data might help to figure out where Raxxla could be, given that (if some theories are correct) it must have been possible to reach hundreds of years ago.
660ly was considered immensely far out only 30 years ago, possibly further than anyone travelled before (in recorded history) - from Sol, the planet where this camp was found (Wregoe VK-E c12-0) is 669 ly away. https://canonn.science/codex/columbus-expedition-camp-14/ It gives us an idea of what "normal people" considered extremely far.
Here's the logs:
TIME TO MOVE ON 1/4
Expedition Log: 09/10/3274
We’ve made it. For a while there I thought we might be in real trouble. Came out of our jump into what I can only describe as a meteor storm. The ship took a lot of damage and it was touch and go there for a minute. But here we are, Checkpoint 14.
The habitats have been set up and our auto-rover has discovered some mineral deposits that might help with repairs. Symons thinks he can reprogramme the rover to harvest these. It’ll take a long time, but it’s the best option we have.
Richards is working on the agri-habs. AG Hab 1 is up and running and Hab 2 is up and ready for planting. Hopefully we should have fresh vegetables in a matter of weeks. I can’t tell you how sick we all are of the food cartridges at this point. So this is it, life out in the deep dark of space.
TIME TO MOVE ON 2/4
Expedition Log: 11/05/3275
Okay, I have a good news, bad news situation here. So let’ s see… bad news first I think.
Bad news: It’s going to take longer than we hoped to make repairs and get moving again. We’re not going anywhere any time soon. It looks like this place is home for the foreseeable future. With the agri-habs fully up and running we can, in reality, live out the rest of our natural lives here if necessary.
Good news: We’re going to have a wedding out here. It looks like a little ship board romance has turned into something. Woods and Symons have decided to tie the knot.
I know the official guidelines say that this kind of thing is not allowed, that it somehow clouds judgement. But it’s not like we’re going to be coming back. I mean we’re not just exploring out here. That’s what the payload is for. Seeding new life.
Besides, maybe we’ll set a record for the first marriage deep in space. We might even start a trend.
TIME TO MOVE ON 3/4
Expedition Log: 25/12/3275
We knew this journey wouldn’t be easy. As I said in the press conference before we left, “As pioneers we tread the difficult path so that those who follow in our footsteps can benefit from our knowledge and reach deeper into the galaxy”.
And I hold to that. We knew this wasn’t going to be easy. We knew there would be hardship and sacrifices along the way. That is what being a pioneer and an explorer is. We endure these hardships so that we can discover new ground and pave the way for others.
In the years to come, I’m sure explorers will be able to jump larger distances and see things we can only dream of. I’m sure they will make discoveries that we can’t possibly imagine and travel to the furthest reaches of our galaxy. But these early expeditions into the black will be remembered as a significant step in humanity’s journey out into the stars.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot… Happy Holidays.
TIME TO MOVE ON 4/4
Expedition Log: 24/08/3277
Today we break camp to move to our next checkpoint.
After so many months growing food, repairing the ships and refuelling for the next jump, this camp feels like home. We’ve spent a lot longer here than our previous sites, due to all the damage we sustained crashing through that meteor shower on the last jump.
These habitats were designed to be disposable. Temporary camps to allow us to recharge for the next jump. It’s good to know that these habitat modules can last this long. We’ve decided to leave the settlement largely intact. We can spare the materials and who knows, maybe one day a future explorer will find it and be able to use it as a kicking off point on their own expedition.
I’ll be sorry to leave it all behind, but that’s the deal. Time to move on.
As you can see here, they feel that they are extremely far out, and maybe the first out that far - which obviously may or may not be true, but also look at the date, they spend 4 years on that planet growing new food, mining resources to refuel and make repairs before heading out - and they suggest this isn't extraordinary, they've done it before (although presumably only a few weeks or months), it's what they planned to do. This is obviously in the era of the slow 2b hyperdrive, but we can see here that there's been no documented human expeditions out this far 30 years ago - AND they feel they are filling in data as they go, implying that even any probes that went before clearly didn't do very much in the way of mapping. They also suggest they are going to maybe terraform a planet or something, they mention not coming back and taking seeds with them.
"In the years to come, I’m sure explorers will be able to jump larger distances and see things we can only dream of. I’m sure they will make discoveries that we can’t possibly imagine and travel to the furthest reaches of our galaxy. But these early expeditions into the black will be remembered as a significant step in humanity’s journey out into the stars."
Therefore the following lore references can help us to understand the scope of what we might consider "human travel" prior to FSD:
- References in 2810 to explorers going missing in the Pleiades (380ly from Sol) (Quirium Drive/Pre-Quirium Drive?)
- Jameson in a Cobra reached (near) the Pleiades in 3151 (Quirium Drive)
- Peregrina (200ly from Sol) is outside human space in 3275, but reachable by an average pilot in a customised singleship. (Class 2b)
- The columbus Expedition passes 669ly from Sol in 3273 - official and well equipped expedition, designed for long-range. (Class 2b)
- The Dynasty Expeditions used experimental technology to reach 12,000ly in 3275 (Class 2b - supported by experimental tech)
- Rebecca in Premonition has visited the Rift in a heavily modified vintage Cobra, (unknown modifications and drive system)
FINALLY I've discovered an in-game Lore reference to hyperdrive travel in the past and what was considered "far" by long-range explorers - and it's dated! This data might help to figure out where Raxxla could be, given that (if some theories are correct) it must have been possible to reach hundreds of years ago.
660ly was considered immensely far out only 30 years ago, possibly further than anyone travelled before (in recorded history) - from Sol, the planet where this camp was found (Wregoe VK-E c12-0) is 669 ly away. https://canonn.science/codex/columbus-expedition-camp-14/ It gives us an idea of what "normal people" considered extremely far.
Here's the logs:
TIME TO MOVE ON 1/4
Expedition Log: 09/10/3274
We’ve made it. For a while there I thought we might be in real trouble. Came out of our jump into what I can only describe as a meteor storm. The ship took a lot of damage and it was touch and go there for a minute. But here we are, Checkpoint 14.
The habitats have been set up and our auto-rover has discovered some mineral deposits that might help with repairs. Symons thinks he can reprogramme the rover to harvest these. It’ll take a long time, but it’s the best option we have.
Richards is working on the agri-habs. AG Hab 1 is up and running and Hab 2 is up and ready for planting. Hopefully we should have fresh vegetables in a matter of weeks. I can’t tell you how sick we all are of the food cartridges at this point. So this is it, life out in the deep dark of space.
TIME TO MOVE ON 2/4
Expedition Log: 11/05/3275
Okay, I have a good news, bad news situation here. So let’ s see… bad news first I think.
Bad news: It’s going to take longer than we hoped to make repairs and get moving again. We’re not going anywhere any time soon. It looks like this place is home for the foreseeable future. With the agri-habs fully up and running we can, in reality, live out the rest of our natural lives here if necessary.
Good news: We’re going to have a wedding out here. It looks like a little ship board romance has turned into something. Woods and Symons have decided to tie the knot.
I know the official guidelines say that this kind of thing is not allowed, that it somehow clouds judgement. But it’s not like we’re going to be coming back. I mean we’re not just exploring out here. That’s what the payload is for. Seeding new life.
Besides, maybe we’ll set a record for the first marriage deep in space. We might even start a trend.
TIME TO MOVE ON 3/4
Expedition Log: 25/12/3275
We knew this journey wouldn’t be easy. As I said in the press conference before we left, “As pioneers we tread the difficult path so that those who follow in our footsteps can benefit from our knowledge and reach deeper into the galaxy”.
And I hold to that. We knew this wasn’t going to be easy. We knew there would be hardship and sacrifices along the way. That is what being a pioneer and an explorer is. We endure these hardships so that we can discover new ground and pave the way for others.
In the years to come, I’m sure explorers will be able to jump larger distances and see things we can only dream of. I’m sure they will make discoveries that we can’t possibly imagine and travel to the furthest reaches of our galaxy. But these early expeditions into the black will be remembered as a significant step in humanity’s journey out into the stars.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot… Happy Holidays.
TIME TO MOVE ON 4/4
Expedition Log: 24/08/3277
Today we break camp to move to our next checkpoint.
After so many months growing food, repairing the ships and refuelling for the next jump, this camp feels like home. We’ve spent a lot longer here than our previous sites, due to all the damage we sustained crashing through that meteor shower on the last jump.
These habitats were designed to be disposable. Temporary camps to allow us to recharge for the next jump. It’s good to know that these habitat modules can last this long. We’ve decided to leave the settlement largely intact. We can spare the materials and who knows, maybe one day a future explorer will find it and be able to use it as a kicking off point on their own expedition.
I’ll be sorry to leave it all behind, but that’s the deal. Time to move on.
As you can see here, they feel that they are extremely far out, and maybe the first out that far - which obviously may or may not be true, but also look at the date, they spend 4 years on that planet growing new food, mining resources to refuel and make repairs before heading out - and they suggest this isn't extraordinary, they've done it before (although presumably only a few weeks or months), it's what they planned to do. This is obviously in the era of the slow 2b hyperdrive, but we can see here that there's been no documented human expeditions out this far 30 years ago - AND they feel they are filling in data as they go, implying that even any probes that went before clearly didn't do very much in the way of mapping. They also suggest they are going to maybe terraform a planet or something, they mention not coming back and taking seeds with them.
"In the years to come, I’m sure explorers will be able to jump larger distances and see things we can only dream of. I’m sure they will make discoveries that we can’t possibly imagine and travel to the furthest reaches of our galaxy. But these early expeditions into the black will be remembered as a significant step in humanity’s journey out into the stars."
Therefore the following lore references can help us to understand the scope of what we might consider "human travel" prior to FSD:
- References in 2810 to explorers going missing in the Pleiades (380ly from Sol) (Quirium Drive/Pre-Quirium Drive?)
- Jameson in a Cobra reached (near) the Pleiades in 3151 (Quirium Drive)
- Peregrina (200ly from Sol) is outside human space in 3275, but reachable by an average pilot in a customised singleship. (Class 2b)
- The columbus Expedition passes 669ly from Sol in 3273 - official and well equipped expedition, designed for long-range. (Class 2b)
- The Dynasty Expeditions used experimental technology to reach 12,000ly in 3275 (Class 2b - supported by experimental tech)
- Rebecca in Premonition has visited the Rift in a heavily modified vintage Cobra, (unknown modifications and drive system)
Ok, so technically what you've discovered is lore on the state of some public knowledge more than 100 years into the use of the type 2b. They're describing themselves as one of the early expeditions out into the black. An early expedition 1,000 years after the use of hyperspace started?
I don't doubt they think they are one of the early expeditions out into the black. But it completely stretches credibility that they are.
Knowledge of expeditions has been lost or was never public knowledge in the first place - if not, the routes & destinations of all the generation ships would be known.
Personally I think what we're seeing here is more evidence of the loss of knowledge.
We know type 1 hyperdrive tech was somehow lost in the collapse of Galcop. If something which would have been so fundamental to the running of the galaxy could have been lost, than it's almost certain that knowledge of many other things would have been lost too.
Ok, so technically what you've discovered is lore on the state of some public knowledge more than 100 years into the use of the type 2b. They're describing themselves as one of the early expeditions out into the black. An early expedition 1,000 years after the use of hyperspace started?
I don't doubt they think they are one of the early expeditions out into the black. But it completely stretches credibility that they are.
Knowledge of expeditions has been lost or was never public knowledge in the first place - if not, the routes & destinations of all the generation ships would be known.
Personally I think what we're seeing here is more evidence of the loss of knowledge.
We know type 1 hyperdrive tech was somehow lost in the collapse of Galcop. If something which would have been so fundamental to the running of the galaxy could have been lost, than it's almost certain that knowledge of many other things would have been lost too.
We are building a library of actual lore references giving times, dates, distances and descriptions of exploration/travel journeys prior to FSD. We have at least some data now covering a period from 2800 to only 30 years ago - this is all valuable information, and we're moving away from having to make up stories about how far people could travel, because now we're finding more and more hard info on how far people actually did travel
Tnx. If it Player Faction where is Players? I see 2 suppoters on Inara. Didn't meet anyone for two days.
It's just another Player faction without Player's
btw I did some missions Now: 32.4% State: Boom Was: 6% State: Outbreak
The hunt for Raxxla takes explorers on many routes through the galaxy. We search among the stars and planets for that one Great Anomaly to point us to this final destination. Yet Raxxla remains hidden and shrouded from view.
We must therefore focus on the one link to Raxxla that appears to be transparent: The Dark Wheel. Operating out of the Founder's World system of Shinrarta Dhezra much has been made about whether or not this group even represents the actual Dark Wheel at all or if it is something entirely different which has subjugated the name for some perceived benefit of reputation.
Even before the Great Schism between Oberon and Neptune Ryder led to the the formation of the Circle of Independent Elite Pilots there must already have been many independent pilots and cooperatives operating along one or more of the many spokes that protrude from the Wheel. No doubt one of those spokes extends into Shinrarta Dhezhra and perhaps provides motion along its axis to more then is given credit.
Even now the Dark Wheel is turning ... moving the galaxy toward the great doom of this age: The unveiling of Raxxla and the undoing of mankind's infancy.
Dark Wheel. Lets deconstruct that for the moment.
Dark. The word comes to us from the Old English "deorc" which is believed to be related to the Germanic "tarnen" meaning to "conceal".
Wheel. Old English hwēol (noun), of Germanic origin, from an Indo-European root shared by Sanskrit cakra ‘wheel, circle’ and Greek kuklos ‘circle.’
To find Raxxla we must first discover the Concealing Circle.
My eyes have been drawn to Barnard's Loop. What could be hidden inside or beyond this great emission nebula? This has become the latest Windmill to draw my lance.
May the madness encircle me as I venture once more into the void.
