It can be done on any engine by every studio to some level of quality. It can be done by nobody on no engine to the level some jaded boomers need to make their lives more bearable.
the real reason why no full atmosphere
- Thread starter 💽 luka 💙
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He is just factually wrong, too. It's not even about opinions with him. Just the right combination of salt and ignorance to convince himself of it though.
Typical nonsense snide digs and "engine" top trumps by the usual suspects. The time consuming task is always the polish, blabbing on about single thread performance is irrelevant, especially as minimum specs can always be adapted for any future DLC. Its all about the time consuming task of creating 3D assets and gameplay loops, which is why they binned the console conversion effort for now as there is too much work to do elsewhere.
Delusional. There isn't a dev studio in the business that could pull off what you're asking, much less Frontier.It can be done on any engine by every studio to some level of quality. It can be done by nobody on no engine to the level some jaded boomers need to make their lives more bearable.
Do you even know what factually means? You can use that word when all of your pie in the sky dreams are in Elite.
Pro tip: before yelling people are delusional or ranting about how people demand pie in the sky dreams, you might want to ask them what they are actually expecting or asking for first. At this point you are just continually raging against stuff you are simply imagining other people may think or say.
Which, ironically, is called being delusional.
I very much doubt you are correct. I see no reason why it can't be done.
wow this thread certainly blew up didn't it lol
the biggest problem in terms of on foot content is how limited missions are, there needs to be more types both inter and intra system, and more in a ship to match what you can get on foot. the fact that they added intra system missions on foot but not in a ship is a huge pita tbh, and still no missions to run patrols in either case.
on foot content is okay, it could've happened in the old engine too but they needed new models for things like concourses, refining the ship models and refining/adding srv models, ui revamp and they also opted to push the engine harder graphical effects wise at the same time. biggest change by far seems to be the planetary generation, it seems really intensive to blend everything together and it's still pretty new
for certain things, having a handful of pre-made assets to have the engine cobble together isn't that big a deal. is it really a huge deal that there's only 20 rock models that get peppered around? not really. having cities be at least partially hand generated is fine but imo before they do that they really need to rework the existing ports and stations since right now they feel like a whole lot of nothing and don't work at all on foot. it's kinda hilarious how all the models and whatnot are just not made for it, can go exploring around on foot and it's really obvious how they weren't made with something that small in mind.
everyone enjoy this long post lol
the engine could prob do it, it just needs refinement after all the changes to the 4.0 engine prob
on foot is no different engine-wise from in a ship. target a human in a srv, you can see they're basically the same thing as far as anything in the engine is concerned. the only difference is ui and what tool you hold. hell, if someone pulls out a weapon on foot their radar blip turns into a triangle inside the srv!
the biggest problem in terms of on foot content is how limited missions are, there needs to be more types both inter and intra system, and more in a ship to match what you can get on foot. the fact that they added intra system missions on foot but not in a ship is a huge pita tbh, and still no missions to run patrols in either case.
on foot content is okay, it could've happened in the old engine too but they needed new models for things like concourses, refining the ship models and refining/adding srv models, ui revamp and they also opted to push the engine harder graphical effects wise at the same time. biggest change by far seems to be the planetary generation, it seems really intensive to blend everything together and it's still pretty new
it prob is a fair bit of work just for the mechanics of it, but i really think the hard part is gonna be actually rendering everything. seems to be the problem now with planets and going more complex than what's currently there is going to require more refinements to the current system so it doesn't fall over
they could do it, but it would be a tremendous amount of work and have to be manually done for earth so realistically they would have to don't do earth and permit lock it lol
think that in systems where it doesn't matter its prob easier to leave things up to the engine, it's doing a fine enough job at it right now. it's just stuff like sol is going to be hard because they're not going to want to leave the engine up to that
for certain things, having a handful of pre-made assets to have the engine cobble together isn't that big a deal. is it really a huge deal that there's only 20 rock models that get peppered around? not really. having cities be at least partially hand generated is fine but imo before they do that they really need to rework the existing ports and stations since right now they feel like a whole lot of nothing and don't work at all on foot. it's kinda hilarious how all the models and whatnot are just not made for it, can go exploring around on foot and it's really obvious how they weren't made with something that small in mind.
everyone enjoy this long post lol
It reads to me that something along the lines of "Unreal Engine 5 should be used, and the project taken over by XX studio", which beggars the question why has no other studio produced a 'carbon copy' of ED and made it a 'huge success'?
I agree with you. Modeling a small map is very different than modeling an entire planet at scale, especially when flying over that planet at hundreds of m/s at altitude. I too am not convinced that Cobra can handle JWE graphics on any sort of large scale. Odyssey can't even handle barren planets at scale, performance-wise..
To be fair, what people are asking of Frontier is no small task. The only game I'm aware of that pulls off full-sized ELW well is Microsoft Flight Simulator, and that's a very specialized piece software that does ONE world well (and even it has issues). One could argue that No Man's Sky does what it does well, and it does, but what it does would not "fit in" Elite's attempt at a realistic galaxy.
While unreal 5 engine looks great, we have no idea whether it can do a procedurally generated galaxy, with full sized planets, with plant life on it with wild life.
I agree.
We can land on airless planets since 2015, yet the moon has always been locked (even if there is no permit required).they're gonna have to permit lock earth, realistically
and that will make everyone mad
If they ever manage to make atmospheric planets I would be more interested to land on new planets rather than Earth.
But to be honest I think that FDEV will not even release 50% of the features described during the KS so I'm not counting on it.
I opined a long time ago that I didn't think we'd ever get full atmospheric worlds and would be stuck with airless planets, and while Odyssey has undermined that prediction very slightly I stand by what I said about worlds with full weather systems and biospheres. It seemed like a reachable goal back in the heady days of the Kickstarter, but once the pace of post-launch (or at least post-Horizons) development was there for all to see it became increasingly unlikely that the code could ever live up to the ambition.
And to be fair to FD, part of the problem was the astonishing graphical quality of the original release and of Horizons. During the Kickstarter nobody really knew what to expect in terms of overall fidelity in the final product. The only unprocessed video footage was of good-but-not-amazing pre-development demonstrations whose quality might have suggested the possibility of planetary surfaces rendered to an equal standard. But once the alpha dropped it moved the goalposts massively. It was almost too good.
Having said all that, I'd still like to be able to walk around an Orbis habitat ring. I'm much more confident that the Cobra engine could handle that, and make it very visually appealing. I'm just not sure FD has the resources or inclination to want to add what is effectively just another tech demo to the game. Other than eye candy, the main reason for my wanting this back in the day was the idea that we might be able to meet persistent NPCs in these environments. But since most persistent NPCs have been reduced to what are in effect stationary animated billboards, I wonder if anyone else would even see the point any more.
And to be fair to FD, part of the problem was the astonishing graphical quality of the original release and of Horizons. During the Kickstarter nobody really knew what to expect in terms of overall fidelity in the final product. The only unprocessed video footage was of good-but-not-amazing pre-development demonstrations whose quality might have suggested the possibility of planetary surfaces rendered to an equal standard. But once the alpha dropped it moved the goalposts massively. It was almost too good.
Having said all that, I'd still like to be able to walk around an Orbis habitat ring. I'm much more confident that the Cobra engine could handle that, and make it very visually appealing. I'm just not sure FD has the resources or inclination to want to add what is effectively just another tech demo to the game. Other than eye candy, the main reason for my wanting this back in the day was the idea that we might be able to meet persistent NPCs in these environments. But since most persistent NPCs have been reduced to what are in effect stationary animated billboards, I wonder if anyone else would even see the point any more.
I think EWs are possible, I believe the rebuild of the planet generation system was to help accommodate that. A fully occupied planet with multiple cities isn't probably possible without it looking too generic and copy-paste. But unoccupied EWs or EWs with just settlements should be doable. As someone pointed out earlier, maybe occupied worlds could have limited, specific areas you could land that are hand made. Maybe you would have to request permission from orbit then follow some sort of real or HUD based beacons. Now keeping you within the landable area without a blunt "wall" would need some thinking.
If we had a space to ground landing load screen, sure, but we are all used to landing anywhere we want.
The smart move is to permit lock almost all inhabited planets for safety. Have an npc shuttle for visiting planets like earth so we can see the cities and keep a few atmospheric planets unlocked with only a few urban areas and mostly sadly farm or procedural whatever.
We got over not landing on the moon. I'm ok with not landing on earth.
Head candy.
I don't know much of anything about the Cobra engine or how similar the version used in Odyssey is to other FDev games. We could be comparing Windows 3.11 FWG to Windows Server 2022 for all I know...same over arching brand, some remnants in common, but very different products with very different capabilities.
I'm inclined to think a much broader spectrum of atmospheres are completely possible. I'm even inclined to think most of the stuff we see in other FDev games is technically feasible in Elite. I'm just not inclined to think that FDev believes they're worthwhile.
That Odyssey is heavily dependent on/limited by the performance of a single thread (which is apparently the main game loop and/or primary render thread) is readily demonstrable. That the per-core performance of the Play Station 4 and X Box One are far inferior to mid-range 2021 PC CPUs is both self-evident from the hardware's specifications and demonstrable in cross-platform benchmarks (the PS4 can run Linux).
The resulting rationale that the EDO console version was canceled primarily for performance reasons is a well-substantiated extrapolation of available evidence.
All that said, I don't think any of that has anything to do with the lack of full atmospheres. I have no reason to believe that performance is the main hurdle here, especially not on PC (the only version remaining).
I'm inclined to think a much broader spectrum of atmospheres are completely possible. I'm even inclined to think most of the stuff we see in other FDev games is technically feasible in Elite. I'm just not inclined to think that FDev believes they're worthwhile.
That Odyssey is heavily dependent on/limited by the performance of a single thread (which is apparently the main game loop and/or primary render thread) is readily demonstrable. That the per-core performance of the Play Station 4 and X Box One are far inferior to mid-range 2021 PC CPUs is both self-evident from the hardware's specifications and demonstrable in cross-platform benchmarks (the PS4 can run Linux).
The resulting rationale that the EDO console version was canceled primarily for performance reasons is a well-substantiated extrapolation of available evidence.
All that said, I don't think any of that has anything to do with the lack of full atmospheres. I have no reason to believe that performance is the main hurdle here, especially not on PC (the only version remaining).
Nah, the real reason i suspect is simply its a lot of work and FD haven't decided to tackle it yet. There would also be performance considerations that would need to be addressed, we don't need another Odysseygate.
Fair enough but who do you trust.
They probably know the game better than anyone else but if things went mams up, it's a completely different ball game.
It has been a mess from the early PR but the only ppl who can fix it are FD.
That's prolly depressed a few but it is what it is.
At the end of the day, it's still all head candy because we don't know.
They probably know the game better than anyone else but if things went mams up, it's a completely different ball game.
It has been a mess from the early PR but the only ppl who can fix it are FD.
That's prolly depressed a few but it is what it is.
At the end of the day, it's still all head candy because we don't know.
