General / Off-Topic The safest place

Every death in your country that isn't by blunt force trauma will be attributed to coronavirus. That's what's happening in Italy, and no doubt here in America. 40k deaths per year to the seasonal flu in America are not actually tabulated from physical tests, but rather from a statistical calculation based on mathematical estimates by the CDC. In other words pulled simply from a simple calculation based on theory. These will now be attributed to the coronavirus.
Now, watch that video again if you didn't already (one of many videos like that),
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sxrYYDpYoU


And repeat to yourself what you just wrote, but slowly.

You don't seem to have the slightest clue about what's happening here.
 
You are still comparing this to the flu . I am at a loss of words man .
Well, it's obviously worse than seasonal flu.
How much worse we can't really tell without mass testing.


Regarding the high number of deaths in Italy, they seem the have recorded a unusual high number of casualties related to normal flu compared to other European Countries.

According to the article below, there were 25000 deaths attributable to influenza epidemics in 2016/2017 flu season in Italy.
25000.

We estimated excess deaths of 7,027, 20,259, 15,801 and 24,981 attributable to influenza epidemics in the 2013/14, 2014/15, 2015/16 and 2016/17
 
Good news everyone! Turns out you can discuss US politics on reddit and score as many points as you want over there! Over here I recommend people ignore those who insist on making every event in the world about their political ideology.
Unfortunately, that's the way of the world these days sadly. Particularly if you can make out that your the victim and the other person is a villain.

I was talking to a friends wife early today, and suggested that perhaps more serious penalties be thrown at people who are working counter to the good of society in regards to this virus (i.e. incarcerating for the duration any cretins going around slashing ambulance tires, spreading false news and the like).

Suddenly I was accused of being in favour of purging non-binary types, non-heterosexuals, the elderly and obese people in a manner akin to Auschwitz as their lifestyles were 'against patriarchal societal norms' or some such.

I found the whole experience quite odd, seen as I was in the middle of delivering food to elderly people in the village who can't get out at the moment, a fact which she knew.
 
And still, the U.S. couldn't pay for all the damage it has done around the world in 100 years.
OMG, we continue to carry a great financial crisis partly because of your wars. Stop watching American movies about save the world.

Yeah, sure

And European Colonialism is totally blameless...
 
I think I might have not got my point across clearly there.

To be clearer: Having worked on ships doing border protection duties (both for my own Nation and NATO/EU members, and for a few government departments/arms), the states you find a lot of illegal immigrants in when you pull them out of the water sometimes is shocking in terms of the diseases they're carrying and can understand the argument for stringent border patrolling due to what people could be bringing into the country.

Any analysis from Colombia and its influx of illegals from Venezuela can show you that, which is why they're getting really nervous about the spread of the Covid-19 into Venezuela and how it's going to impact on them can verify that.

A few months back, any pointing out of these concerns would lead to someone being branded a Racist, right wing, narrow-minded bigot trying to cover their real motives (I should know, as I've been on the receiving end of such a berating).

I just find it odd that now something like this has happened these people have been suspiciously quiet on the matter, rather that conceeding the point that perhaps stringent adherence to immigration policy, rather than supporting border jumping (which they've done in the past), might actually be for the good of the nation.
I got your point. However, border policy, by and large, hasn't been about keeping contagions out. Point out such concerns now, as if they were a significant reason for restrictive border policies before, is a justification after the fact that isn't going to do anything to silence the kinds of criticisms you mention, quite the opposite really. Any perception of such silence is probably due to their being more pressing matters occupying people's (and media) attention.

Those who advocate stringent adherence to an immigration policy that that doesn't make immigration easy for those who test clean of communicable disease aren't advocating those policies to keep out disease.
 
Yeah, sure

And European Colonialism is totally blameless...
For my part I do not feel any pride for what my country or Europe has done in the past and sorry for what they did,
, in fact , they (Spain and other European countries that collaborated) also annihilated my ancestors and their / our culture here ,in the Canary Islands.
There is no rancor and I am not proud of what they did either ,but i know that feel.

Anyway, one bad action doesn't justify the others, It is a time of change and the world must take a different course and learn to live better together, and that begins in the mind of each one, not leaving it in the "brilliant" minds of some leaders.
 
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For my part I do not feel any pride for what my country or Europe has done in the past and sorry for what they did,
, in fact , they (Spain and other European countries that collaborated) also annihilated my ancestors and their / our culture here in the Canary Islands. There is no rancor but I am not proud of what they did either but i know that feel.

Anyway, one bad action doesn't justify the others, It is a time of change and the world must take a different course and learn to live better together, and that begins in the mind of each one, not leaving it in the "brilliant" minds of some leaders.
And I don't feel bad about liberating Europe and re-building it, or re-building Japan, or providing disaster relief globally or leading in R&D or keeping sea lanes open.

Go bash a country that deserves it, where human rights are virtually non-existent.

It's long past time that the world showed some appreciation for what America has contributed rather than the envy bashing that's so PC fashionable.
 
Well, it's obviously worse than seasonal flu.
How much worse we can't really tell without mass testing.


Regarding the high number of deaths in Italy, they seem the have recorded a unusual high number of casualties related to normal flu compared to other European Countries.

According to the article below, there were 25000 deaths attributable to influenza epidemics in 2016/2017 flu season in Italy.
25000.
A few kickers:

SARS - CoV - 2 is more contagious than "the flu" . It spreads quicker . It kills quicker . And we have NO medicine, and NO Vaccine for it .
I mean, what do people think would happen every "flu season" if there were no medicine and vaccine(s) available against "the flu" ?
 
There's a lot of stuff in the package, much of it poorly understood and no doubt hurriedly, sloppily articulated. What else would you expect from a bill of such magnitude drafted almost overnight? The bottom line is that the wheels are turning and we're doing something, with a great deal more on the horizon. We expect to see an average of $3400 per family of four, which is nothing to sneeze at. That's in addition to loan payment freezes, rental payment freezes, business loans directly from the bill, etc. Yet you guys mock those of us who stand by our leaders and choose optimism over fear.

Out of curiosity, what is everyone else doing around the world in a similar vein? At a potential price tag of 6 trillion, who else is throwing such wealth into the effort?
Wait a minute, are you saing the US is giving 6 trillion dollars to the WORLD for "the effort" ?

Ofc, that is NOT what you are saying, you know very well where that money goes . And while you pride yourselves in the USA throwing massive amounts of money at the economy, you are one of the people advocating testing would not be worth doing, anyone is infected anyways...tell you what, this pandemic will not go away by throwing money at the domestic economy .

As for Germany, I can tell you that our ongoing efforts to test, confirm, clinically document as many CoViD - 19 patients as possible, and meticulously report the findings accurately, and not giving up on this but actually RAMPING IT UP all the time...is amongst other things to the benefit of the WHOLE WORLD . WE generate highly accurate numbers, which can be used to make better predictions . We ALSO produce a rather HUGE, VERY accurate DataSet, which helps and will help to no end in the finding of treatment, medicine and vaccine .

So what now ?
 
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Quick SitRep (Germany) :

A bigger Hospital in a nearby larger town has changed drastically over the last week, in sync with our smaller local Hospital.

The same people who gave me weird looks or questioned my intentions (clueless) just a few mere few weeks ago now wear face masks themselves. Nurses, Doctors, patients.
Still not all of them, though.

Entire Hospital has been locked down with strict regulations, access control and -management and reducing foreign personnel (all visitors prohibited) to the absolute minimum.
Floors for certain Stations have either been closed and re-purposed as future ICU rooms or re-located to separate COVID19 treatments from non-COVID treatments and personnel.

Situation there is still calm but no comparison to last month, when I seemed the only person knowing what was coming and had to explain myself over and over.

I liked that they are in the progress of shifting to taking arriving patients over already at the entrance, just some mis-communication between entrance area and treatment facilities (who asked why I was there). Guess those quirks will be worked out over the next days.

Now it's all down to waiting, as this larger town as well is slowly shifting from "zone yellow" to "zone orange" with steadily increasing contamination levels.
I hate having to go there but my mother needs it, so no choice.

Only small setback was my mother putting on her face mask wrong, resulting in a "FFP0" protection level.
Took me a minute to convince her to re-fit it properly and check for firm seal. Very stubborn. Expected but doesn't help .... sigh.
Her statement "that's good enough for me, it's not needed, I don't want it". Old people can be very difficult. Oh well....
 
A few kickers:

SARS - CoV - 2 is more contagious than "the flu" . It spreads quicker . It kills quicker . And we have NO medicine, and NO Vaccine for it .
I mean, what do people think would happen every "flu season" if there were no medicine and vaccine(s) available against "the flu" ?
that doesn't really answer to the post you quote, right?

For example @Ian Skippy reported Covid-19 like symptoms, but he didn't went to the hospital, he never got tested so it's not a reported case. Not a negative, not a positive.
Like him could be millions of Europeans

The fact is we cant really tell how much worse Covid-19 it is. Not without mass testing.
We can only say it's worse.
 
We can only say it's worse.
We can use some statistics. For example, Bergamo reported a 300% increase in total number of deceased compared with the same period last year.

FWIW: I am still experiencing symptoms, and yesterday was a particularly bad day after numerous days of improvement. Didn't sleep during the night because of a burning sensation in the lungs. I am a polite and respectful host, but I'm getting to the point where the virus is outstaying its welcome. :mad:
 
We can use some statistics. For example, Bergamo reported a 300% increase in total number of deceased compared with the same period last year.

FWIW: I am still experiencing symptoms, and yesterday was a particularly bad day after numerous days of improvement. Didn't sleep during the night because of a burning sensation in the lungs. I am a polite and respectful host, but I'm getting to the point where the virus is outstaying its welcome. :mad:
Get checked, seriously.
Even a simple X-ray to chest/lungs will show if you have problems.
 
that doesn't really answer to the post you quote, right?

For example @Ian Skippy reported Covid-19 like symptoms, but he didn't went to the hospital, he never got tested so it's not a reported case. Not a negative, not a positive.
Like him could be millions of Europeans

The fact is we cant really tell how much worse Covid-19 it is. Not without mass testing.
We can only say it's worse.
See, that is the thing : we can not even reliably say how bad the seasonal flu season is . Does anyone really think when a Nation reports 6, or 8, or 10 million people infected during a flu season, it is based on accurate testing ? Same goes for deaths reported for a given flu season . Yet people still cite those numbers.

The important difference being : for the flu, is juuuust not as much a matter of life or death as it is with CoViD -19...cos medicines and vaccines, or the absence of either .

And THAT is where the whole comparison falls apart .

I do ofc know that we never get the FULL picture ( or maybe we will, one day after its all over ) re SARS - CoV -2 and CoViD -19. But I DO know that we need as much Data as we can gather, as accurately as possible, for various reasons . More accurate projections/predictions as well as development of medicine/vaccine being amongst them .
 
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Get checked, seriously.
Even a simple X-ray to chest/lungs will show if you have problems.
Not an option for the foreseeable future. Belgium is approaching the apex in 1-2 weeks, right now we are all expected to contribute by not burdening healthcare unless things are really critical. Not ideal, but I don't need hospitalisation so will just rest and wait till it inevitably improves. :)
 
There's a lot of stuff in the package, much of it poorly understood and no doubt hurriedly, sloppily articulated. What else would you expect from a bill of such magnitude drafted almost overnight? The bottom line is that the wheels are turning and we're doing something, with a great deal more on the horizon. We expect to see an average of $3400 per family of four, which is nothing to sneeze at. That's in addition to loan payment freezes, rental payment freezes, business loans directly from the bill, etc. Yet you guys mock those of us who stand by our leaders and choose optimism over fear.
As I said previously to you, it's the only button left to push. It's no glorious leadership when the alternative is to let hundreds of millions of people and businesses go to the wall. I mean if that's the definition doing a good job, then so be it.

Out of curiosity, what is everyone else doing around the world in a similar vein? At a potential price tag of 6 trillion, who else is throwing such wealth into the effort?
No bragging rights to see whose economy needs the biggest bail out ;) but since you asked, UK government initial bailout of £350bn IIRC.
 
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