General / Off-Topic The safest place

[ianw]

ianw said:
Maybe it's different where you are but here I'm not seeing people wearing masks for a fraction of a day nevermind a whole one.

At all the universities around here faculty, staff, and students are supposed to wear their masks at all times in the presence of others, irrespective of the ability to remain six feet apart (an example of UB's policies). My wife has to give lecture through a mask. It's greatly inconvenient for all involved, but a necessary precaution.

Unfortunately, mask compliance is less than perfect and social distancing even worse. Many, perhaps the majority of universities here aren't going to make it through the semester without going online only due to case numbers that are already starting to pass state mandated thresholds. UB, the example I gave above, is almost certainly going to shut down by the end of this coming week...too many people not taking things seriously.

I think the plan here is for schools to use them in transit in corridors (not sure about unis) - each year is it's own bubble. They are also encouraging distancing and going full on with hand washing and no sharing of stuff/playing any games that involve handling the same objects.

Here it seems generally a mixed bag some people are still in full on protection mode others seem to have given up with the majority probably somewhere on a sliding scale in the middle.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Over here masks are mandatory at all times at my uni, social distancing always applies and lessons will be online when possible right from the start.

 

[Stigbob]

I think the plan here is for schools to use them in transit in corridors (not sure about unis) - each year is it's own bubble. They are also encouraging distancing and going full on with hand washing and no sharing of stuff/playing any games that involve handling the same objects.

That's great in principle younger and less responsible kids will deliberately or accidently breach though. Schools have always been centers of infection.

Here it seems generally a mixed bag some people are still in full on protection mode others seem to have given up with the majority probably somewhere on a sliding scale in the middle.

Unless we end up with a working safe vaccine sooner of later we'll all be exposed to it I suppose, the stricter measures were to prevent medical services being overrun. Phased lockdown lifting and reimplementation work towards the same thing to keep the system running but it'll never be perfect.

So as time goes on it might not matter so much. We might conceivably achieve the herd immunity people spoke of months ago.

 

[Morbad]

That's great in principle younger and less responsible kids will deliberately or accidently breach though.

The 'kids' in my example are mostly in their 20s, looking to get degrees in biology related fields, with a significant portion of them being nursing students...and they still don't have a grasp of basic hygiene, look for every excuse to take off their masks, and cannot understand why partying every weekend doesn't count as social distancing.

Maybe next semester, after the spike they are responsible for...

We might conceivably achieve the herd immunity people spoke of months ago.

While not entirely out of the realm of plausibility, there is little information suggesting that this is likely to occur without a working vaccine.

 

[Stigbob]

The 'kids' in my example are mostly in their 20s, looking to get degrees in biology related fields, with a significant portion of them being nursing students...and they still don't have a grasp of basic hygiene, look for every excuse to take off their masks, and cannot understand why partying every weekend doesn't count as social distancing.

Maybe next semester, after the spike they are responsible for...

The post I was replying to was about schools rather than uni's but I get your point. Young people think they are indestructible unfortunately.

And they should get off my lawn.

While not entirely out of the realm of plausibility, there is little information suggesting that this is likely to occur without a working vaccine.

I'm having doubts about vaccine uptake levels achieving the same thing so I'm hoping for alternatives. Education is too slow.

Ultimately it might be the thing that gets us back to normalcy. We need more data though.

There's no clear consensus (that I can find) on Sweden's herd immunity experiment, we have to wait and see how the second wave shapes up there going forward.

 

[Patrick_68000]

The truly depressing bit is that if everyone had followed quarantine and social distancing for just a few weeks every country in the world would be in the same position as New Zealand. With the virus effectively eradicated other than isolated outbreaks imported from outside.

The virus can't survive or spread on it's own it needs ignorant people to do all the legwork for it.

And God knows the countless ignorant people on the planet.

 

[Patrick_68000]

150 people gathering, no masks, no social distancing. Someone is getting ill. An excellent chance someone is going to die.

And an additional cluster with new contact cases to come.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

And an additional cluster with new contact cases to come.

If it would confine itself to the cohort that cannot adapt, I'd shrug and walk away.
But they take it home to innocent people.

 

[Patrick_68000]

If it would confine itself to the cohort that cannot adapt, I'd shrug and walk away.
But they take it home to innocent people.

This is the problem indeed.

 

[Patrick_68000]

In France still 7000 new cases in 24 hours.

25000 in three days.

528 clusters under investigation.

 

[Synkreto]

In France still 7000 new cases in 24 hours.

25000 in three days.

528 clusters under investigation.

Brace my friend . From what info I get about France in Germany, it looks like it is going to hit you hard again .

 

[Patrick_68000]

Brace my friend . From what info I get about France in Germany, it looks like it is going to hit you hard again .

Yes our Minister of Health has declared that for the next 15 days (and after certainly) there will be an increase.

 

[Synkreto]

Yes our Minister of Health has declared that for the next 15 days there will be an increase.

There have been some reports about hospitals raising the alarm already . Does France publish Info on ICU capacity nationwide ?

 

[metatheurgist]

And the maxed hospital capacity means that people with other issues will not get care, which is one of the way deniers are harming others.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

There's no clear consensus (that I can find) on Sweden's herd immunity experiment, we have to wait and see how the second wave shapes up there going forward

I am curious as to how it will turn out in the end too. But there seems to be a consensus? Perhaps a dated one?

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/sweden-coronavirus-herd-immunity

Sweden Has Become the World’s Cautionary Tale (Published 2020)

Its decision to carry on in the face of the pandemic has yielded a surge of deaths without sparing its economy from damage — a red flag as the United States and Britain move to lift lockdowns.

www.nytimes.com

https://www.thestreet.com/mishtalk/economics/swedens-covid-experiment-is-now-a-certified-failure

Why Sweden's Controversial COVID Experiment Is Failing

A classic book about America's middle class returns just in time; Mitch McConnell faces a dilemma; and a COVID experiment in Sweden falters. So far.

www.newsweek.com

Sweden: 22 Scientists Say Coronavirus Strategy Has Failed As Deaths Top 1,000

Sweden's relatively relaxed approach to controlling the spread of the virus has come under fire from 22 researchers who have publicly criticized the strategy.

www.forbes.com

Sweden's prime minister orders an inquiry into the failure of the country's no-lockdown coronavirus strategy

The number of new COVID-19 cases in Sweden, where the government opted against a strict lockdown, has increased significantly in recent weeks.

www.businessinsider.com

Denmark Vs Sweden: Herd Immunity’ Is a Failed Response to Coronavirus

Denmark and Sweden are often compared regarding their handling of coronavirus-19 because the two Scandinavian countries are similar to one-another in many ways but took very different approaches to dealing with the coronavirus challenge. Whereas Sweden took a libertarian approach (meaning...

moderndiplomacy.eu

Man Behind Sweden’s Controversial Virus Strategy Admits Mistakes

Sweden’s top epidemiologist has admitted his strategy to fight Covid-19 resulted in too many deaths, after persuading his country to avoid a strict lockdown.

www.bloomberg.com

Sweden is still nowhere near 'herd immunity,' even though it didn't go into lockdown | CNN

Sweden has revealed that despite adopting more relaxed measures to control coronavirus, only 7.3% of people in Stockholm had developed the antibodies needed to fight the disease by late April.

edition.cnn.com

You know who thinks Sweden is a success?
Dr. Atlas, The Radiologist.

Spoiler: A Rant, lots of sarcasm, read only if you want the entertainment

He also thought Covid was contained in the USA in April, that the deaths would be less than 10000, in March, that children can't spread it, and that lockdowns are a waste of time. So, reliably and consistently achieving Larry Kudlow levels of wrongness.

Atlas should stick to reading his X-rays, in my humble opinion, and leave actual medicine to real doctors. But perhaps that's just professional bias. He is entitled to disagree with Sweden's Epidemiologist (who started the policy), and then concluded that it failed.

In any case, he's not helping Sweden by promoting them. The last person you would want to publicly take your side is Larry Kudlow Dr. Scott Atlas; if he agreed with me on anything I would immediatly look for my errors.

.

Despite this, we will only know when the history books get written. It is possible that the strategy is bad in the short term, and pays off after.

Sweden is a courageous nation that tried a different approach, with good intention. It's not fair to write off the calculation before we get the results, and I hope they DO get a payoff that ends up saving lives.

In short, yes, I agree. It's a very important question, too.

 

[hems303]

150 people gathering, no masks, no social distancing. Someone is getting ill. An excellent chance someone is going to die.

..and as a long served Registered Nurse I can tell you that when the someone does die with this virus, it is an absolutely horrific way to go (unless sedated).... but anyone with half a brain must realise this virus has dread meaning for certain portions of what is supposed to be OUR community...

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

..and as a long served Registered Nurse I can tell you that when the someone does die with this virus, it is an absolutely horrific way to go (unless sedated).... but anyone with half a brain must realise this virus has dread meaning for certain portions of what is supposed to be OUR community...

I can imagine, the ones I have spoken to have described surviving as really quite dreadful. They're done for life, they'll never be the same again. Lord knows what that actually means for them. It's only 6-7 months in. What does 2 years to someone do?

 

[metatheurgist]

I can imagine, the ones I have spoken to have described surviving as really quite dreadful. They're done for life, they'll never be the same again. Lord knows what that actually means for them. It's only 6-7 months in. What does 2 years to someone do?

Either way I'm sure having a population of invalids will do awesome things for the economy. Also, darkly, now these people will be the vulnerable ones the next time a "not very serious" pandemic floats around. I wonder if they'll still feel so cavalier about not preventing the spread then?

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

Either way I'm sure having a population of invalids will do awesome things for the economy. Also, darkly, now these people will be the vulnerable ones the next time a "not very serious" pandemic floats around. I wonder if they'll still feel so cavalier about not preventing the spread then?

Well, as some people do everything based on a straw poll of one, it is undoubtedly going to be the case that someone who took no precautions this time and survived, will ignore any future events.

The point about the economy is an interesting one. The survivors I have spoken to are unlikely to return to work, not in the next year (if ever), so we're already paying for them on a benefit system our govt has tried to irradiate. It is well worth remembering, we let old men who fought in the war sell their medals so they could pay for heating. Just as we went from institutional care for mental health patients to 'care in the community' (basically abandoning them), I suspect we'll do the same with physical health care.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

The survivors I have spoken to are unlikely to return to work, not in the next year (if ever),

Still trying to guess if my original pneumonia and subsequent surgery were really 2 different things, but evidence is emerging that suggests maybe Covid caused both.

Case reports of abdominal surgeries done on known cases of Covid recently published match the reported findings in my Path report.

Could be paranoia on my part. But having the pandemic disease during a pandemic, in a medical worker, is just very very likely. And one disease is a better explanation than 2 different ones that resemble the first one.

Today is the first day I felt approximately normal since February. And I started off well ahead of average but lost 15 pounds during the process.

On the bright side, now I'm technically a cyborg in a dystopia, in 2020. The cyberpunk dream is real! There's always a bright side.

Source: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UuRE74Bdvhw