General / Off-Topic The safest place

The worst is over

Economic failure also can be lethal

Time to find the best balance

Markets are base building now. If recent lows don't get broken down, then the bottom is in. Expect continued volatility as market movement is all currently driven by the news cycle and the news media is continuing it's focus on maintaining a state of hysteria. Watch for that to diminish as sensationalism starts to lose it's effect and markets get back to analyzing data.

I'll be dollar cost averaging back in over the next 12 weeks
The worst is over? Can we see your medical and/or science credentials?
 
The worst is over? Can we see your medical and/or science credentials?
Heck, if we're going to play it that way then maybe you should post up yours while he's digging around for his? I've lost track of how many totally qualified & certified scientists, epidemiologists, climatoligists etc use their vast first hand knowledge and expertise to shout down opinions on this forum that don't square with theirs. Unless you buy into the conspiracy theory that most of us are just sitting on the sidelines screeching with no more relevance or practical experience to matters under discussion than monkey's in a zoo...
 
Heck, if we're going to play it that way then maybe you should post up yours while he's digging around for his? I've lost track of how many totally qualified & certified scientists, epidemiologists, climatoligists etc use their vast first hand knowledge and expertise to shout down opinions on this forum that don't square with theirs. Unless you buy into the conspiracy theory that most of us are just sitting on the sidelines screeching with no more relevance or practical experience to matters under discussion than monkey's in a zoo...
I didn't make the claim that the worst is over....
 
For the majority of the world, it has barely even started.
I could go either way on this, honestly. We'll see. One thing that does strike me as a fairly rock solid certainty is that unless this thing mutates to a harmless form or we quickly find a vaccine (keeping in mind that even the seasonal flu vaccine has a maximum efficacy rate of 40% and that number likely goes down every year you take it), quarantines are going to prove to be an imperfect solution with this thing just waiting to get going in a population as soon as strictures are lifted and the majority of people with no immunity. It's not like we're going to suddenly be able to produce all the ICU beds and ventilators required to keep everyone going.
 
I could go either way on this, honestly. We'll see. One thing that does strike me as a fairly rock solid certainty is that unless this thing mutates to a harmless form or we quickly find a vaccine (keeping in mind that even the seasonal flu vaccine has a maximum efficacy rate of 40% and that number likely goes down every year you take it), quarantines are going to prove to be an imperfect solution with this thing just waiting to get going in a population as soon as strictures are lifted and the majority of people with no immunity. It's not like we're going to suddenly be able to produce all the ICU beds and ventilators required to keep everyone going.
We're buying time. The alternative is that all health services collapse, and people die needlessly and in large numbers. Imperfect it may be, but it's better than just letting the virus do it's thing.
 
I didn't make the claim that the worst is over....
Without expertise in the matter your opinion is no more correct than his, yours being that the worst isn't over.

Personally, I think its going to prove to be the case that the vast majority of every man, woman and child on the planet is going to catch this and be forced to either survive, or not. The rest of the discussion, every single bit of it, is how best to deal with the fallout.

I definitely do my part to keep from spreading anything in the community, but I am under no illusions and have made peace with the fact that if I haven't already caught it (and I'm about 70% sure that I already have), that I will, and further that if/when I do, there will be no special care waiting for me. That's how I've lived my entire life, and whether that's sooner or later it's the way I assume I'll be going out, too.
 
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Without expertise in the matter your opinion is no more correct than his, yours being that the worst isn't over.

Personally, I think its going to prove to be the case that the vast majority of every man, woman and child on the planet is going to catch this and be forced to either survive, or not. The rest of the discussion, every single bit of it, is how best to deal with the fallout.
I'm not making claims which run counter to every scientific institution in the world mate, there's your difference. In fact, I don't know what's going to happen, but the evidence suggests that this is only the beginning. Do you have any evidence which suggests otherwise?
 
Gotta go to work so I'll just say this and be out until later: we need to look at the overall health from the ground up of the various countries. I haven't time to dig up statistics, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say Germans are healthier overall as a population, probably in any way a direct comparison can be made.
I'm quite confident that you are on to something, but I doubt you'll be able to get 'proper' statistics at the moment. Right now WHO is giving some basic relationships between outcome and single variables: for example 'diabetes is a negative factor'. In truth is all but inevitable that there are a host of interacting variables that increase/decrease the prognosis. In order to find those you'll need things like principle component analysis, factor analysis, multiple regression analysis and so on. To do that you'll need:

1) A dataset with the samples obtained via (approximately) random sampling.
2) A dataset which all contain the same variables, measured in the same way. The number of variables ideally included is staggering.

We have neither for the foreseeable future. What we'll have is a collection of guesses, case studies, best practices and such.
 
Dr. Campbell's first Video of the day :

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6JrkLvsKtw


Also, New York needs help, pretty urgently . Like, ALL the help they can be given ( well, in fact, they know pretty precisely what they need ) . Have a peek at Gvn. Cuomo's just finished press conference for details .

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2khIjJuLHI


Just to be clear : That is a US Governor, and he makes it pretty clear that to him, EVERY Life is a life to be fought for, and that he is NOT willing to sacrifice human life for economical concerns . You are USAmerican ? Listen to this man's pleas .
 
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I love how for some of you it's so simple to extricate the decisions that have to be made at these vast, population wide levels. If someone cares about the economy it must mean that they want people to die.

Just dropped in to grab some stuff for work and now I'm on my way back out and instead of giving in to fear and and negativity I'll just leave you guys with a song that i heard this morning that really resonated with me:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUB8ogvze_8
 
The new scenario emerging from Canadian government sources, including several MPs involved in planning discussions, is that 80% of the world will become infected and about 3% of us (higher in developing countries, lower in developed ones) will die. A vaccine will be developed and we will all have to take the shot, possibly each year, and that's just how this will go. There are too many sources for this new scenario to site, and most of them are unofficial, so I won't waste time pretending that this is some sort of official prognosis... but it is a convincing picture of how this will play out.

Let's assume the USA returns to business as usual and does not attempt more stringent containment procedures. How is it possible that other countries could stay free of coronavirus? It simply wouldn't be. There is too much travel for it to stay contained in one country that is content to simply have the disease and not really care how many people get infected, because it isn't worth the economic damage from a protracted shutdown to them.

Like, imagine that the virus is eliminated in the UK, but is just another thing you can get in the US at any time. There are just so many problematic equations involved in that. Same with Europe. I mean, if this definitively can't be contained worldwide, we'd simply be better off pouring billions more into a vaccine and gird ourselves for the incoming losses while it is being tested and eventually deployed.
 
The new scenario emerging from Canadian government sources, including several MPs involved in planning discussions, is that 80% of the world will become infected and about 3% of us (higher in developing countries, lower in developed ones) will die. A vaccine will be developed and we will all have to take the shot, possibly each year, and that's just how this will go. There are too many sources for this new scenario to site, and most of them are unofficial, so I won't waste time pretending that this is some sort of official prognosis... but it is a convincing picture of how this will play out.

Let's assume the USA returns to business as usual and does not attempt more stringent containment procedures. How is it possible that other countries could stay free of coronavirus? It simply wouldn't be. There is too much travel for it to stay contained in one country that is content to simply have the disease and not really care how many people get infected, because it isn't worth the economic damage from a protracted shutdown to them.

Like, imagine that the virus is eliminated in the UK, but is just another thing you can get in the US at any time. There are just so many problematic equations involved in that. Same with Europe. I mean, if this definitively can't be contained worldwide, we'd simply be better off pouring billions more into a vaccine and gird ourselves for the incoming losses while it is being tested and eventually deployed.
I posted almost the exact same thing a few pages ago...


...look at the Date of the Article...
 
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Paul_Crowther

Community Manager
Frontier
Hey all,
We're in unprecedented waters here and understandably there's a lot of concern and uncertainty right now. We're happy for you to have this thread to talk about things as we know everyone wants somewhere they can share their concerns but please, don't use this thread to target one another, spread misinformation or turn this into a political discussion. If you want to do those things there are other sites that are better suited.

If we can all keep this friendly and civil we'll all have a much greater time.
 
For the majority of the world, it has barely even started.
Africa & India could make Italy's problems look like a walk in the park due to the special social & economic characteristics of these two Third World behemoths.

On the plus side, I always wondered what it was like to live in North Korea!

Can't leave the country, gatherings are banned, shelves are empty etc etc...obvious differences are that their "Dear Leader" TV shows are more entertaining than the BBC's output, we don't have to worship Boris Johnson morning, noon & night & his dead dad isn't head of state!
 
I posted almost the exact same thing a few pages ago...
It's one of these global human health situations that will probably all come down to vaccination in the end. I get my flu shot every year with my wife and our two kids. Seems like we'll probably be getting 2 shots instead of 1 in 2020/2021, and that's just how it will go down. In countries without the ability to deploy the shot to the poorest of their populations, well, how would that be any different than it is today?
 
Africa & India could make Italy's problems look like a walk in the park due to the special social & economic characteristics of these two Third World behemoths.

On the plus side, I always wondered what it was like to live in North Korea!

Can't leave the country, gatherings are banned, shelves are empty etc etc...obvious differences are that their "Dear Leader" TV shows are more entertaining than the BBC's output, we don't have to worship Boris Johnson morning, noon & night & his dead dad isn't head of state!
What we have in the UK is an attempt to save lives via social distancing, that's had to go from advisory to compulsory because of the people who don't/can't understand (or care) how important it is.

Police states don't care about public health.
 
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