The secret to surviving Conflict Zones

[Jmanis]

tl;dr HRPs + Military Armour. Seriously. If you aren't fitting every free slot not used for shields on your ship with a HRP when you go to a conflict zone, you're doing it wrong.

Hopefully I'm not saying anything new for anyone with this post, but last post I ever saw about this was saying how CZ's were nigh on impossible these days. Before now, I'd argue they're definitely harder, but not impossible.

I started a war recently, and unfortunately my main combat account is halfway between here and Jaques... my secondary account has a Python, but lightweight alloys and nowhere near enough cash (15m) to fit it with military-grade alloys which is my CZ safety net. Besides that, I have an Asp, and a Cobra III. With only 15m to fit out, I decided to jam some military-grade armour onto the Cobra, and went with this fitout. Ask me a little while ago, and I'd have said taking a Cobra III into a CZ was suicide.

I'd never used HRPs before, and I recall (someone, hopefully you'll drop a comment) saying they make a Cobra IV viable in CZs. Having never done this, I expected a loss fairly quick.

Surprisingly, this never happened. At one stage I got so focused on destroying an eagle, I never realised I'd been under constant fire from three other hostiles who had managed to knock me down to 70% hull. What? This fight was going on for a good minute, all the while I was under fire, and I was only down to 70%???

The definitive proof came after I docked, handed in a couple bonds, repaired, and went back in. In this Cobra I literally went toe-to-toe with an Elite FAS. Did I win? Hell no, I scuttered off with 19% hull integrity and a busted canopy. But what did I achieve?

About five or six minutes of open, unassisted conflict against this FAS. I didn't have enough punch in my weaponry to reliably bust it's shields between it's combined SCBs and Chaff, but I did manage to actually exhaust it's supply of SCBs (four I believe) and knock 10% off it's hull.

Seriously. Cobra III versus an Elite FAS, six minutes in open conflict constantly within 2km of each other and my shields were non-existent pretty much the whole time. Just kicking myself that I didn't video it...

On an aside, I think there's lessons here for traders also who get insta-killed by interdictions. OK, you can't fit out an all-HRP fitting, but mil armour + HRPs at the cost of a couple LY jump range and a few-ten-thousand credits profit per run for massively increased survivability versus losing millions to insurance is surely a good payoff. But that's a thread for another time.

 

[Craith]

Maybe not every internal slot, but they definately help. It is not possible to make a general statement though, since every ship reacts differently to the mass changes, and some (especially an Eagle or Courier with Enhanced Drives) react volatile to mass changes.
In any case, better pack point defenses and watch out for missiles, your drives will thank you.

 

[Crazy Jedi]

For Combat I have a FAS, Which has mil-grade BH and every nook and cranny stuffed with HRPs but even in that I have so far, avoided CZs, jumped back in my Asp and scuttled off to smuggling again.....
Maybe I'll try a bit of combat again. My last memory of combat though was that the returns were very poor especially when factoring repair / resupply of the FAS making it an expensive hobby.
Still, could be a fun diversion for a bit..

 

[Jmanis]

Maybe not every internal slot, but they definately help. It is not possible to make a general statement though, since every ship reacts differently to the mass changes, and some (especially an Eagle or Courier with Enhanced Drives) react volatile to mass changes.
In any case, better pack point defenses and watch out for missiles, your drives will thank you.

Oh sure. Combat effectiveness is a completely different kettle. And b-rate thrusters are a must. But for a rookie who can't even get a shot off without being forced to jump or die it's a good start point.

Re: returns...i don't really see czs as money spinners, go to res for that. For me, it's bgs stuff, who wins the war is what matters. But that's another topic.

 

[Speedy O]

I tested a modded DBS in a CZ the other night.
Due to a few dodgy previous visits, I went in slowly, with, as OP says, mil spec hull.
Before declaring for a side, I just sat on the back of an Anaconda and just followed him around, practicing positioning.
When he was far enough away from the main conflict, I opened up and spent what must have been 10 minutes watching him pop about 4 SCB's while I scratched at him.... His turrets finally broke my new shields and I spent another few minutes on him until I was down to around 80%...
I'd like to have continued to see what would happen but I had to be up for work in the morning.
It would have taken ages.... But I had a great time!
Most enjoyable CZ for months.... and just that one encounter!

 

[Nerwan]

I don't really use any HRPs unless I'm doing PVP. The two 6A SCBs in my Python or the two 7A SCBs in my Corvette ensure I never lose my shields.

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

Haha in the CZ's i never heat in without lot's of HRP's + military
My multiships running all at least with military grade composite. But my traders still lasts with lightweight alloy for max jumprange. In these i don't fight. I just run^^

The HRP's and MGC in combination with Bi-Weave shields are the greatest thing in warzones. I have no need for SCB's. Shields down? No problem, just deciding to run or if the hull can take this. Within a few seconds the shields are back and ready for the next engagement. I can stay in CZ's with vulture/FAS/FDL more than long enough to earn between 1mil and 2mil combat bonds. Since 2.1 it's a bit harder but mostly it takes simply just much more time than before.

Nice outfit on cobra here my FAS
https://coriolis.io/outfit/federal_...0020304B22d32296b27.Iw18cQ==.EwBj5BGbPaVKIA==

 

[Stigbob]

Low wake before your shields drop (they now recharge 2 x faster in supercruise) circle and jump back in once full, very quick with bi-weave.

 

[goemon]

i used a HRP cobra mKIII in CZ a lot around the beginning of 2.1. (also with my second account, which is non-horizons)

i think, there are some reasons, why that works so well.

a) a single class 2 HRP already doubles the hullpoints of a cobra. so, if you simply but 3 HRP into the smallest spots, you already have 786 "hitpoints" instead of 216... that's a third of armour more then a python with lightweiht bulkheads. this won't work as well on many ships.

b) the cobra has a small hitbox, if facing the enemy or if running from an enemy. it has a rather low straight line speed - you will most of the time sit in the middle of a circle, while your enemy is flying around you. it is a very fast ship when boosting - you will face your enemy most of the time when jousting.

c) moduls of an cobra are really hard to hit.

d) because of its boostspeed, you will be out of weapons distance fast when running, and even before that the enemy will have dropping damage values by distance.


.. so, as a cheap endurance cz ships, it is very nice. i still prefer a modded DBS ;-)

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

You're still quickly screwed when you lose the thrusters. And the AI like ganging on players very much.

 

[Dimensions]

Personally I wouldn't take a small or medium multi-role ship into a CZ. But if I did I could still do well without HRPs, because I pick my fights careful. You have to watch your scanner constantly.

You may be in a 1v1, but all the ships on your ship side might be getting destroyed, leaving you with more red ships than green who may decide to join your fight. Go to any on-going fight where your guys outnumber the reds or it's an even fight, with the possible exception where there is a much weaker green ship fighting a much more powerful red one. Usually in that situation the green ship may flee the fight and leave you by yourself. Also follow a group of friendly ships around and target the ship they are targeting.

If your side is heavily outnumbered at the start of the CZor during a fight, leave and re-enter the CZ to reset it, or fly until the red ships are outside of scanner range, and then fly back in. Even in a modded FDL I use these methods especially for stacked missions. The only time I found myself in trouble has been when I wasn't paying attention to what was happening on the scanner.

 

[goemon]

Personally I wouldn't take a small or medium multi-role ship into a CZ.

i have quite the opposite experience. AI reacts to threat-level, small and medium ships are a lower threat-level than large ones, so taking a smaller ship allows you to team up with a large NPC, and let him soak fire and ganking of the enemies.

 

[GTwannabe]

Only issue I have with CZ's is if you do too well against the AI the game spawns in a half dozen new enemies directly on top of you. My current CZ loadout is an FDL with bi-weaves, a huge beam, and 4 multicannon turrets. Lets me compensate for the ship's abysmal drift when facing fast movers.

 

[Jmanis]

You're still quickly screwed when you lose the thrusters. And the AI like ganging on players very much.

Last fight I had to reboot/repair three times consecutively before my thrusters got repaired. Got out with 50%, reduced from 70% when I had to start dealing with it... so it's pretty manageable.

I've shared this with my groupmates, they've gone from almost zero survivability in CZs to taking out a few ships each run. Again, just a rookie strategy, but seems effective enough, and is a stark contrast from "CZs are impossible with new AI"

 

[dutchy2000]

Only issue I have with CZ's is if you do too well against the AI the game spawns in a half dozen new enemies directly on top of you. My current CZ loadout is an FDL with bi-weaves, a huge beam, and 4 multicannon turrets. Lets me compensate for the ship's abysmal drift when facing fast movers.

That is basically my setup as well, my huge beam is fixed. I run military armor, but no hrps, I have 16 tons cargo space for running missions. Right now in decima doing 12M kill 72 whatevers in a CZ. Takes me a little over an hour to do. Makes 12M for the mission, another 3M from the ships and I also stacked some smaller kill (4,8,16) type missions for some extra dosh there as well. Easy money.

 

[Nerwan]

Last fight I had to reboot/repair three times consecutively before my thrusters got repaired. Got out with 50%, reduced from 70% when I had to start dealing with it... so it's pretty manageable.

I don't get it... yes manageable but why when shields provide such amazing protection from everything (especially engineered shields)? I take my Python into a conflict zone with full on multi-role, planetary lander, discovery scanner and the works.. The 10 SCB pops I in my 2x6A SCBs are enough to ensure that I can survive against up to 8/9 ships attacking me at once.. I can stay for hours, and then ultimately I go when I run out of MCs (because I never use 10 SCBs).. I do tend to carry mil spec armor but that's it.. If you fight with hull there's always the chance of someone taking your drives/weapons out..

Like I say, I do have some engineered HRPs stored away in a T-6 at my base so that I can swap them in if I want to use my Python for PVP (since in PVP you can potentially lose your shields)

 

[Jukelo]

You're still quickly screwed when you lose the thrusters. And the AI like ganging on players very much.

As soon as you lose shields you need to simultaneously boost, initiate a high wake and switch flight assist off to turn towards your attackers. This should ensure your thrusters don't die, and it's then only a matter of turning and boosting towards your destination once the FSD is charged up.

I don't get it... yes manageable but why when shields provide such amazing protection from everything (especially engineered shields)?

This is Dangerous Discussions, not Horizons or Engineers Discussions. Don't assume everyone has access to modded shields.

 

[goemon]

I don't get it...

you missed the point of @Jmanis stating, that this is on his second account with only 15 mio in the bank. you'll have serious problems outfitting a shieldtank in that price range. probably a courier could do, but class 3 scbs ain't as powerfull as class 6, even in comparison in size.

 

[Nerwan]

you missed the point of @Jmanis stating, that this is on his second account with only 15 mio in the bank. you'll have serious problems outfitting a shieldtank in that price range. probably a courier could do, but class 3 scbs ain't as powerfull as class 6, even in comparison in size.

Ah yes that is true. Hull tanking is biased in effectiveness towards small ships and shield tanking is biased towards large ships so early on in the game hull tanking does make a lot of sense.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

I'd never used HRPs before, and I recall (someone, hopefully you'll drop a comment) saying they make a Cobra IV viable in CZs. Having never done this, I expected a loss fairly quick.

That would be me

Surprisingly, this never happened. At one stage I got so focused on destroying an eagle, I never realised I'd been under constant fire from three other hostiles who had managed to knock me down to 70% hull. What? This fight was going on for a good minute, all the while I was under fire, and I was only down to 70%???

The definitive proof came after I docked, handed in a couple bonds, repaired, and went back in. In this Cobra I literally went toe-to-toe with an Elite FAS. Did I win? Hell no, I scuttered off with 19% hull integrity and a busted canopy. But what did I achieve?

Yeah, man, I actually downgraded the Mk IV to just two sets of Class 4 HRPs. The rest was just overkill and slowed me down too much, like flying a brick. But between Military bulkheads, the HRPs, and A shields (it might be a bi-weave, I can't recall at the momment) with boosters, my Cobra IV (3xMC, 2xSeeker) is still hell in the CZ. Fired up a new war last night, and she performed beautifully. It's part outfitting, part situational awareness, and part knowing how to use her (she's not a dogfighter).

I'm happy that you're getting good use out of your Cobra III. For four sorties last night I got killed once, and that was because I was impatient and declared before my allies spawned.... with 10 enemy ships on you, there is little you can do to escape alive. But then, with 350k rebuy, I didn't fret over it.