The slow orbital cruise approach causes a host of problems.

[DemiserofD]

3-5 minutes to get to the surface?

Man, you've got to get better.

If you can't go from orbit to surface in under a minute you're doing something wrong.

It's not just the time from the surface to the ground. It's the slowdown from the gravity well, the longer approach, finding a landing site, and so on. And, of course, you can't balance around the best possible pilots; you're balancing for the average, which likewise will take quite a bit longer.

Now that I think about it, this suggestion is vaguely similar to the docking computer. I've seen many players run out of time to successfully dock, so having an alternative method, one that allows faster guaranteed service, was a good addition, and one they should extend to this system, as well.

 

[nemolomen]

3-5 minutes to get to the surface?

Man, you've got to get better.

If you can't go from orbit to surface in under a minute you're doing something wrong.

55° down bubble with the throttle set just below the blue zone...

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I've seen many players run out of time to successfully dock

What?

I think you and me are playing very different games in different realities.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

55° down bubble with the throttle set just below the blue zone...

Yup. If you plan your apporach right Demiser's

It's the slowdown from the gravity well, the longer approach, finding a landing site, and so on.

is largely irrelevant.

I kind of see his point about how it is quicker to do space based objectives, so those who choose activities based on how quickly they can reach their objective might avoid planetary stuff, but personally i choose activities based on what i want to do, not whether its going to take me an extra minute to get where i'm going.

 

[nemolomen]

...
I kind of see his point about how it is quicker to do space based objectives, so those who choose activities based on how quickly they can reach their objective might avoid planetary stuff, but personally i choose activities based on what i want to do, not whether its going to take me an extra minute to get where i'm going.

 

[DemiserofD]

What?

I think you and me are playing very different games in different realities.

Quite possible, but I believe my view may be the more accurate one. It's very easy to forget what playing this game was like, before you had thousands of hours of experience.

But one of the things I enjoy most is teaching new players, and so I have seen many, many of them, both ingame and on sites like twitch. You might try it, honestly; it can rekindle some of that early spark, but also help you to remember some of the things that once bugged you, before you learned to ignore them.

 

[DemiserofD]

I kind of see his point about how it is quicker to do space based objectives, so those who choose activities based on how quickly they can reach their objective might avoid planetary stuff, but personally i choose activities based on what i want to do, not whether its going to take me an extra minute to get where i'm going.

On the surface, that's a reasonable view. But it misses an important nuance; this game is not the only game out there. It's not a choice of doing what you want to do, or nothing at all; you can swap to a different game, get an equivalent experience, with less annoyances. I've done this myself often; rather than booting up Elite and flying all the way out to a Conflict Zone or down to drive my SRV, I'll just boot up a different game entirely, like Star Wars or GTA, and in less time play them, instead.

And that's exactly what they need to avoid; players avoiding the game because of annoyances that, in truth, can be removed partially or entirely without negatively impacting the game.

Which isn't to say they should seek to copy those games, only that if they can facilitate players playing the game and having fun, they should do everything they can to achieve that goal.

 

[zikolach]

Orbital Drop Pods, allowing players to rapidly deploy themselves to the surface, allowing their ship to follow, and used to insert soldiers into the battlefield.

Brilliant! I see it as DSS screen and the pilot (remotely from the pod) aiming pod launcher. It would take approximately the same time probe needs to reach surface and lands nearby settlement (300-500 meters) if attempt was successful. While descending one could observe horizon or approaching surface via portholes. After landing the capsule serves as charging port for couple of minutes and then self-destructs.

It would allow for better driver roles for foot play (!!) and let you bring friends reliably to a CZ.

It could be fun if there were missions to deliver troops from the battleship flying at the low orbit onto the ground. The opposing force would be making attempts to reroute battleship. Unfortunately these locations could not be combined in single instance, but probably there could be made a "shortcut" to move directly from low orbit to settlement instances avoiding going to supercruise (so when targeting battleship and initiating FSD the escape vector was indicating it is battleship POI).

 

[zikolach]

3-5 minutes to get to the surface?

Man, you've got to get better.

If you can't go from orbit to surface in under a minute you're doing something wrong.

I would guess OP was speaking of getting from nearby station/outpost to the settlement nearby. Comparing it to traveling next system and station/outpost 20kls away of main star.

 

[photomankc]

That's a good point. However, you don't need to lose those advantages(or the realism) to fix the issues for Odyssey. After all, having your player(or SRV) on the surface isn't going to get your ship there any faster. Allowing players to choose between getting their character to the surface ASAP, versus flying their ship down manually, is a good and meaningful choice.

If anything, this would increase the value of Odyssey content even further. If your choices are to manually fly down, or do an orbital drop and hang around the settlement for a few minutes waiting for your ship to arrive, you'll be far more likely to engage with Odyssey content, too!

Yeah, i do think there is some room for improvement. Hover-drop of the SRV is not a bad idea. Also could be nice to allow for that for physical crew that can be dropped, maybe from ships that can hold fighter bays, so a new module that allows for hot drops up to a certain altitude.

In my opinion though you can't offer a shortcut to some activity in a game where players engagement is part of the inputs to stuff like the BGS or group events. You offer that shortcut then it becomes mandatory for everyone that is seriously competing. It can't be otherwise. Just like the collector limpet crap at the guardian relic CGs. Once it was discovered and started to be used you were either going to do it that way or you are not very likely going to be in the upper tiers. Yeah, those CGs have issues that go beyond that but it's an illustration. There was no way to compete with an SRV running around on the ground.

ETA: So that's why I can't always agree that a choice to bypass something that takes time is the right play.

 

[Frankymole]

On the surface, that's a reasonable view. But it misses an important nuance; this game is not the only game out there. It's not a choice of doing what you want to do, or nothing at all; you can swap to a different game, get an equivalent experience, with less annoyances. I've done this myself often; rather than booting up Elite and flying all the way out to a Conflict Zone or down to drive my SRV, I'll just boot up a different game entirely, like Star Wars or GTA, and in less time play them, instead.

It's not a game, it's a simulation. Flight simulations would be more "fun" without all that tedious flying? Would angling be more fun if you threw dynamite in the water and all the dead fish floated up to the surface?

 

[Frankymole]

It's not quite a loading screen.

The only true loading screen in ED is the hyperjump

Call it an "instance transition screen" then, as it's there while moving from one instance to another (Orbital Cruise to Surface).

 

[thistle]

It's not just the time from the surface to the ground. It's the slowdown from the gravity well, the longer approach, finding a landing site, and so on.

You've just described planetary landings in Elite Dangerous. It isn't changing to make it instant and neither it should.

It's not a game, it's a simulation. Flight simulations would be more "fun" without all that tedious flying? Would angling be more fun if you threw dynamite in the water and all the dead fish floated up to the surface?

This, all day long and with sprinkles on top.

 

[DemiserofD]

It's not a game, it's a simulation. Flight simulations would be more "fun" without all that tedious flying? Would angling be more fun if you threw dynamite in the water and all the dead fish floated up to the surface?

That content would still be there, if people want it. After all, flight sims do allow you to fly to other airports, but they also let you start at those airports, if you like. The choice to do the one doesn't take away from the other.

Elite has similar features. Multicrew is a great example; you can do telepresence multicrew very quickly, or you can do physical multicrew in person. One is faster, while the other offers certain perks that aren't available otherwise. But being able to telepresence doesn't take away from physical multicrew, it only gives players more options and enhances the game by letting players get into the action more quickly.

This would be one more such feature. Do you want to manually fly down to the planet, bringing all your stuff with you? Or do you want to take a jump pod to get there more quickly, but leave your ship behind for a while? Each has their pros and cons, and will suit different parts of the playerbase more readily.

 

[Alaska Sædelære]

We're sure all different. For my part, the approaching and landing on a planet is the scenery I crave and the sense of believable realism what I find most enjoyable. It's simply majestic and worth the time. It is really well done in this game and the part I am most happy to pay for, while content is always a matter of taste. I haven't found myself preferring surface over easily accessible space content when on a mission, but I definitely do for recreational playing. What annoys the heck out of me are the interdictions, while others seem to be seeking that part of the game. I'm okay as long as there are choices.

 

[DemiserofD]

We're sure all different. For my part, the approaching and landing on a planet is the scenery I crave and the sense of believable realism what I find most enjoyable. It's simply majestic and worth the time. It is really well done in this game and the part I am most happy to pay for, while content is always a matter of taste. I haven't found myself preferring surface over easily accessible space content when on a mission, but I definitely do for recreational playing. What annoys the heck out of me are the interdictions, while others seem to be seeking that part of the game. I'm okay as long as there are choices.

I very much enjoy that part, too! It's very pretty, and a lot of fun.

But it does take time, which I don't always have. If I'm trying to finish some mission to get materials to engineer a module, that's my focus, and that means I'll never pick the ground mission over the space equivalent.

 

[Jmanis]

I haven't found planetary approach to be a major problem tbh.

However, planetary departure and inter-system movement, yes, that's a bigger deal. Going from system jump-in to any planetary surface[1], is at most a 5 minute exercise. But to leave a planetary surface and head for another... that's a 10-15 minute exercise. It's almost better to just jump out to a system that's visible from the surface and back again, which is pretty naff. The main issue is for a good portion of your ascent, you're locked at 2500m/s, and you'll slowly creep up, 200km/s after breaking orbital cruise.

This can even be a problem when going orbital station->orbital station, but it's less of an issue, and is dependent on how close the station orbits the relevant body... regardless, your max speed starts at 200km/s, but can last up to a good minute depending on the size of the body.

This was always an issue, but became most apparent when Apex was introduced and people started doing inter-system travel more; this is why so many people complained about "Apex being slow"... it's not Apex, it's the whole aspect of inter-system travel. This isn't a problem with approaches; you're already over the "max" speed limit for that gravity well on your approach usually and can cover the distance easily enough.

Is it a problem necessarily? I don't know... it's slow, and there's nothing you can do but wait. For some things that's fine.... for this? I can grin and bear it with hard surface landings since I'm usually doing multiple things on that planet, but when at a space port, going to another port? It'd be nice if there was an option to depart via a mechanism that "fires" you into space, pushing you out at 200km/s or thereabouts.

[1] excluding ye old >100k ls bodies.

 

[Alaska Sædelære]

I very much enjoy that part, too! It's very pretty, and a lot of fun.

But it does take time, which I don't always have. If I'm trying to finish some mission to get materials to engineer a module, that's my focus, and that means I'll never pick the ground mission over the space equivalent.

That's equally valid of course, but since you are presented with choice, why is it a problem? Some people seem to feel pressure to do everything on the mission board. There is absolutely no need for that. Except for the engineers themselves, you don't have to land anywhere. If you're really pressed for time gathering engineering materials, you still can land just once at the known sites and do the horizons relog loop until you're filled. Not the greatest way to play but legit and I did that when I wanted to go on my first expedition because it would have been impossible to achieve my planned build in time otherwise. Just a matter of priorities for a one-off task, I hope not to repeat it but it's there as a backup. It's like fixing your boat during winter which can be a bit boring but looking forward to summer when you get to relax and enjoy it Because otherwise there would be no point doing it at all.

 

[DemiserofD]

That's equally valid of course, but since you are presented with choice, why is it a problem? Some people seem to feel pressure to do everything on the mission board. There is absolutely no need for that. Except for the engineers themselves, you don't have to land anywhere. If you're really pressed for time gathering engineering materials, you still can land just once at the known sites and do the horizons relog loop until you're filled. Not the greatest way to play but legit and I did that when I wanted to go on my first expedition because it would have been impossible to achieve my planned build in time otherwise. Just a matter of priorities for a one-off task, I hope not to repeat it but it's there as a backup. It's like fixing your boat during winter which can be a bit boring but looking forward to summer when you get to relax and enjoy it Because otherwise there would be no point doing it at all.

The problem, such as it is, is this; if I want to do fps content, which am I going to choose? The game that takes 5 minutes after getting into the game to give it to me? Or the one that gets me into it immediately?

This problem is multiplied by the fact that the FPS content is almost entirely isolated from the existing gameplay. If doing the FPS can improve your experience flying your ship, then you'll be willing to stop playing your ship to do FPS, and having the ship content becomes a positive. But when the FPS is completely isolated, then if you want to do it, the ship content instead becomes an unwanted loading screen. Even if I've already got the game open and I'm sitting in my ship, it will still be faster for me to shut down the game and boot up Battlefront, than to go do a surface conflict zone.

And since Odyssey is 100% focused on that ground content, this problem alone can heavily depreciate the value of the DLC as a whole. If people have to wait too long to do certain types of content, they'll go elsewhere for it, and not play(or buy) at all.

You can't fix this problem entirely, not without changing the game in ways that are unacceptable, but you can mitigate it as much as possible, and make it as easy as possible for players to play(or keep playing) the game.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

On the surface, that's a reasonable view. But it misses an important nuance; this game is not the only game out there. It's not a choice of doing what you want to do, or nothing at all; you can swap to a different game, get an equivalent experience, with less annoyances. I've done this myself often; rather than booting up Elite and flying all the way out to a Conflict Zone or down to drive my SRV, I'll just boot up a different game entirely, like Star Wars or GTA, and in less time play them, instead.

And that's exactly what they need to avoid; players avoiding the game because of annoyances that, in truth, can be removed partially or entirely without negatively impacting the game.

Which isn't to say they should seek to copy those games, only that if they can facilitate players playing the game and having fun, they should do everything they can to achieve that goal.

Let me know when there is a game out there with equivalent experiences.

I've been playing NMS quite a bit recently. Unique in its own way with its own experiences, and lots of stuff in it is very quick to do, especially the getting between planets and stuff. But its not the same experience as ED, not by a long way.