The slow orbital cruise approach causes a host of problems.

One of the biggest problems with Elite, which has existed since Horizons, is how long it takes to get down to the surface of a planet.

Before you can get started, yes, it's more immersive and realistic to need to do this. Planets are huge, this gives you context of their size, all that. Granted.

But that doesn't take away from the fact that surface content just innately takes an additional 3-5 minutes to reach. This means that, given the choice between two identical missions, players will tend to choose the space-based mission, because they can simply supercruise in and drop directly at the content, rather than needing to do the whole orbital insertion every time.

How significant is this? Well, assuming it takes 3 minutes to land on a planet, that's the equivalent of being 20,000ls further away, which is massive. More than enough to influence a player's decision.

There are other flaws of this approach, as well. One of the most significant has to do with dropships into surface conflict zones. It's generally possible to get yourself near a drop zone before the drop happens, and hit almost every enemy in the group with a grenade or rocket, wiping out the majority of the attackers. This presents a massive balancing problem, as unlike in other games, where they will almost instantly respawn, in this game, they will be gone for 30 seconds to a minute, giving the defending player plenty of time to rearm, move to the next location, and do this repeatedly.

Not to mention the extreme level of annoyance that can occur when a player is struggling to land on a single good patch of blue mere inches across, neurotically moving back and forth, left and right, slamming repeatedly into the ground, and hoping the landing gear finally engage. All the old annoyances from Horizons still exist, only magnified tenfold due to the new surface content players want to explore.

Basically, every gameplay aspect, while immersive, also serves to discourage players from engaging in ground content. This is less of an issue on a game mostly about flying spaceships in space, but when an entire DLC releases, entirely dedicated to that surface content? It's a big, big problem. Players will enter into all content negatively predisposed, because nothing is as much fun when someone stabs you with a thumbtack every time you try to do it.



It's for these reasons and many more that I think the biggest thing Odyssey could do to be better, is to add ways for players to get to(and from) the ground more quickly and efficiently.

○ Orbital Drop Pods, allowing players to rapidly deploy themselves to the surface, allowing their ship to follow, and used to insert soldiers into the battlefield.

○ Orbital SRV Drops, allowing you to call in your SRV to your location via drop, without requiring your ship to land.

○ Manual SRV insertion, allowing you to fly your ship close to the ground hop into your SRV, and coast to the surface.

○ Manual Ejection, allowing you to jump out of your ship close to the ground, and drop to the surface(the tech for this already exists, just let us use it!).




Just a few changes like this would dramatically improve the planetary experience. Drop pods alone, even if they took 30 seconds, would effectively bring all planets ~18000ls 'closer' than they were before, and dramatically improve ground CZ balance at the same time.

If changes don't take place, then in 5 years, Odyssey will be in the exact same place as Horizons; side content, ignored by the majority of the community. And nobody - least of all me - wants that.
 
To respond to the title; You think that this causes problems, I do not.

But then again, I take a more laid back, enjoy the scenery approach, whereas you appear to be of the "I want it NOW!" mindset in order to enjoy the game.

Steve 07.
I concur...

But that doesn't take away from the fact that surface content just innately takes an additional 3-5 minutes to reach. This means that, given the choice between two identical missions, players will tend to choose the space-based mission, because they can simply supercruise in and drop directly at the content, rather than needing to do the whole orbital insertion every time.

How significant is this? Well, assuming it takes 3 minutes to land on a planet, that's the equivalent of being 20,000ls further away, which is massive. More than enough to influence a player's decision.
I don't think I have ever consciously made this decision. Though I did used to have an issue (personal) with ground landings in general but I've gotten over that...
 
Masses in ED have always slowed down supercruise, the deeper you go into a gravity well the slower you go. I don't mind the "glide" thing, though it's essentially a loading screen of sorts (the transition from OC to glide definitely is). What could be improved is deploying from ship to ground on foot; or in an SRV. Both could be dropped from hovering, without a need to find a landing spot; after all, when the ship is recalled, it can hover and pick up your SRV without needing to land (in too-rough terrain that's sometimes the only available pickup action).
 
I concur...


I don't think I have ever consciously made this decision. Though I did used to have an issue (personal) with ground landings in general but I've gotten over that...

I don't think players always consciously make decisions based on things like this, but they absolutely do make on-the-fly choices that tend to correlate with efficiency, even if they don't realize it. Players can also be annoyed without realizing it. Have you ever driven through heavy traffic, gotten home, and suddenly something relatively minor sets you off? It's not really the minor thing, it's what happened before priming you to be annoyed for something else.

I can't say what will apply to every person, but I can say a large majority of players avoid planetary stations like the plague. You can see this quite clearly on Inara during delivery community goals; as nearby commodities are consumed, first the large stations are used up, then the outposts, then the ground stations - even if the ground stations are significantly closer!
 
To respond to the title; You think that this causes problems, I do not.

But then again, I take a more laid back, enjoy the scenery approach, whereas you appear to be of the "I want it NOW!" mindset in order to enjoy the game.

Steve 07.

Don't get me wrong, your playstyle is great! For you. But you should recognize that there are portions of the playerbase who feel differently, and wouldn't it be great to get those players enjoying the same content you like?

I'm not proposing taking away what you enjoy, just broadening the game to make it more accessible to different kinds of players. What's wrong with giving everyone a game they can enjoy in their own way?
 
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Masses in ED have always slowed down supercruise, the deeper you go into a gravity well the slower you go. I don't mind the "glide" thing, though it's essentially a loading screen of sorts (the transition from OC to glide definitely is). What could be improved is deploying from ship to ground on foot; or in an SRV. Both could be dropped from hovering, without a need to find a landing spot; after all, when the ship is recalled, it can hover and pick up your SRV without needing to land (in too-rough terrain that's sometimes the only available pickup action).

Given this technology already exists for Conflict Zones, it would be a very nice starting point, at the very least. I don't feel it would be enough to fully make ground areas as accessible as space areas, but it would be a good start.
 
I’m fine with the timings etc - for myself.

I do wish I could drop a team from cargo/passenger/drop-pod area - like the Vulture does in conflict zones or like the OP suggests.

It would allow for better driver roles for foot play (!!) and let you bring friends reliably to a CZ.
 
To respond to the title; You think that this causes problems, I do not.
I concur...

Same here


Basically, every gameplay aspect, while immersive, also serves to discourage players from engaging in ground content

The alternative seems to be the arcade NMS.

In Elite this orbital approach and the glide serves the game better (IMO)
I do remember a certain Planetary Port in the WHN which (for a while) was the main local source of materials for repair.
And it was a 1+ G planet

Also, in Odyssey i do a lot of on-foot missions which, surprise, require landing.
I dont find it distracting, even tho i usually pack and stack between 7 to 15+ missions in each of my runs.

Not at last, Planetary approaches (In EDO, but not only) are a source of great planetary views

In other words, i would never like changes regarding the seamless Supercruise >>> Orbital Cruise >>> Glide aspects of spaceflight in Elite.
 
I don't mind the "glide" thing, though it's essentially a loading screen of sorts (the transition from OC to glide definitely is)

It's not quite a loading screen.

The only true loading screen in ED is the hyperjump
The on-food embark/disembark (from ship or srv) are partial loading screens (without the full extent of system generation that happens during the hyperjump)

Au contraire, during the glide we still get control of the flight and a too tight maneuver can lead to "fading out" where we get red vision and the ship is no longer controllable
 
I agree with OP, about planetary landings, but I would add that the game is generally too slow. I noticed many times, I need 30-60 minutes to actually start to play something.
For example, jumping around between systems and stations, travelling in supercruise, docking, walking through hangars - only to find right mission or right material reward.
For me, it's not playing, it's just necessary preparation for playing. Of course, many players have different opinion.
I love this game and I can accept this slowness - but I doubt if Frontier will attract lot of young players with such a slow game.
I don't speak about making game faster for everybody - many players would be against this idea - but to give some options, to make some areas of the game faster.
For example, we have enhanced performance thrusters, why not EP FSD, for faster supercruise, only in classes 2 and 3, for small ships?
Walking through hangar, using elevator - does anyone like it? Or we simply accept it because we must!? If there is some gameplay, to be attacked from local pirates in your hangar, then this hangar would have some sense.
 
The alternative seems to be the arcade NMS.

There is a middle ground. We've already seen that we don't need to land all the way; we can drop out of a dropship instead, saving a lot of time. It would be similarly realistic to drop from our ships in an SRV while multiple kilometers above the ground, and if you can do that, why not pop out while still in orbit? You'd need a special, SLF-like vehicle to sustain supercruise and glide towards the planet, just with the sole purpose of getting down as quickly as possible.

You select your desired landing site, and you load into a pod using the SLF transfer mechanic, launch from the ship, and in short order slam down on the surface. Believable, realistic, not arcadey at all - but makes ground locations far more accessible.

In a world where long loading times can kill a game, having an entire DLC where virtually 100% of content requires a much longer wait before playing is always going to be a problem. If that problem can be mitigated without sacrificing realism, they should absolutely do it.
 
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I agree with OP, about planetary landings, but I would add that the game is generally too slow. I noticed many times, I need 30-60 minutes to actually start to play something.
For example, jumping around between systems and stations, travelling in supercruise, docking, walking through hangars - only to find right mission or right material reward.
For me, it's not playing, it's just necessary preparation for playing. Of course, many players have different opinion.
I love this game and I can accept this slowness - but I doubt if Frontier will attract lot of young players with such a slow game.
I don't speak about making game faster for everybody - many players would be against this idea - but to give some options, to make some areas of the game faster.
For example, we have enhanced performance thrusters, why not EP FSD, for faster supercruise, only in classes 2 and 3, for small ships?
Walking through hangar, using elevator - does anyone like it? Or we simply accept it because we must!? If there is some gameplay, to be attacked from local pirates in your hangar, then this hangar would have some sense.

I think that as far as this is concerned, there's a lot of room to expand on the telepresence concept. Why not have entire missions take place via telepresence? Maybe you telepresence into a fighter to defend an NPC freighter, or to deploy from a capital ship in a Conflict Zone?

Mixing in a few missions like that, where you could just jump instantly into the fight, would go a long way towards making the game feel fresh and exciting, even as newer players learn to get used to travel times. We have APEX now; if players could hire an APEX pilot to fly their own ship places, and then telepresence into a conflict zone while they fly, you could have incredible amounts of content right there.

Because I do think that a big part of what makes Elite good is the realistic universe with at least semi-realistic travel times, but that doesn't mean you can't fill those waiting times with something else, to fill in the gaps.
 
I think that as far as this is concerned, there's a lot of room to expand on the telepresence concept. Why not have entire missions take place via telepresence? Maybe you telepresence into a fighter to defend an NPC freighter, or to deploy from a capital ship in a Conflict Zone?

Mixing in a few missions like that, where you could just jump instantly into the fight, would go a long way towards making the game feel fresh and exciting, even as newer players learn to get used to travel times. We have APEX now; if players could hire an APEX pilot to fly their own ship places, and then telepresence into a conflict zone while they fly, you could have incredible amounts of content right there.

Because I do think that a big part of what makes Elite good is the realistic universe with at least semi-realistic travel times, but that doesn't mean you can't fill those waiting times with something else, to fill in the gaps.

I also use Apex when actively searching for pre-upgraded gear at Pioneer Supplies...I find that gives me the time to tidy up my desk, take out the trash, switch over the laundry, etc...
 
This is one of those cases where I agree pretty much with your problem statement and still completely disagree that it needs changing. The more time consuming landing on planets leads to certain strategic considerations that make systems with well stocked orbitals desirable and that's good. For player groups that are in conflict there is an urgency to hold onto the orbitals in a system.

The approach and glide in do factor into my choices and I like that they do. During Colonia Bridge those in the nebula were required to put in a lot of planetary landings to get the goods. I was really looking hard for settlements on low G worlds to avoid some high G landings and that added some dynamic too it beyond just repeatedly plowing into the same orbital and mashing the buy button. I like that the glide is different between high and low G worlds. With higher G needing a more controlled and shallow approach.

Sure, there are times I'm going to not be thrilled about needing to make another planetary landing but the transitional method elite uses to get down to the planet is one of the things that really sets it appart. I like the way it feels and it makes it a reasonably immersive experience. It sets some limitations that do factor into how players play the game and creates opportunities for bargain or bulk seekers to trade some extra time for a good deal or bulk buy that others are avoiding.
 
This is one of those cases where I agree pretty much with your problem statement and still completely disagree that it needs changing. The more time consuming landing on planets leads to certain strategic considerations that make systems with well stocked orbitals desirable and that's good. For player groups that are in conflict there is an urgency to hold onto the orbitals in a system.

The approach and glide in do factor into my choices and I like that they do. During Colonia Bridge those in the nebula were required to put in a lot of planetary landings to get the goods. I was really looking hard for settlements on low G worlds to avoid some high G landings and that added some dynamic too it beyond just repeatedly plowing into the same orbital and mashing the buy button. I like that the glide is different between high and low G worlds. With higher G needing a more controlled and shallow approach.

Sure, there are times I'm going to not be thrilled about needing to make another planetary landing but the transitional method elite uses to get down to the planet is one of the things that really sets it appart. I like the way it feels and it makes it a reasonably immersive experience. It sets some limitations that do factor into how players play the game and creates opportunities for bargain or bulk seekers to trade some extra time for a good deal or bulk buy that others are avoiding.

That's a good point. However, you don't need to lose those advantages(or the realism) to fix the issues for Odyssey. After all, having your player(or SRV) on the surface isn't going to get your ship there any faster. Allowing players to choose between getting their character to the surface ASAP, versus flying their ship down manually, is a good and meaningful choice.

If anything, this would increase the value of Odyssey content even further. If your choices are to manually fly down, or do an orbital drop and hang around the settlement for a few minutes waiting for your ship to arrive, you'll be far more likely to engage with Odyssey content, too!
 
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